Greenhorn Jitters

[PippinAin'tEasy]

Gentlemen, fire up your opinions. This brand spankin' newbie just bought the 2014 Big Horn Crew Cab 6'4" bed 5.7 Hemi with 3.92 in the rear end and towing pkg with integrated brake controller. On Monday we're going to pick up (unless logic dictates otherwise) a 2014 Crossroads Zinger travel trailer model ZT32qb. Trailer specs are as follows: 6900# dry weight, 9500# GVWR, 33' 10" overall length. Got it? Good. Now the fun begins.
Yonder website ramtrucks.com says that my truck (after plugging in the VIN in their fancy calculator) is rated for 1600# cargo and 10250# towing. Now I understand that as you add cargo to the vehicle yer towing capabilities have to slide accordingly and that's fine with me. I've got no beef with physics. Here's the brown trout in the beer cooler. Sticker inside the door says do not exceed total 1404# passenger + cargo. Fine.
Enter trailer tongue weight. For those who've never had to deal with this realm of suggestive math I envy you. Tongue weight is variable (unless I'm mistaken) by yer trailer's weight when loaded with all you'll be taking. As long as you know how to load a trailer properly this number is ideally 10-15% of loaded trailer weight. By my estimation my trailer will come in right at 8400# cocked, locked, and ready to rock giving me an (ideal) tongue weight of 840#. But wait, there's more. Add 2 lp tanks @ 70# a pop, a 70# deep cycle battery and now yer up at a grand on yer class IV receiver. What's the weight limit of a class IV receiver? Depends. Some say 1000 tongue/10000 tow, some say 1200 tongue/12000 tow. Hmmm.
Well, now you know what I know. Here's my big question. Understanding that this rig is knocking fervently on the door of max duty ratings how nuts is it to take it on the highways and byways of 'Merica? Would you? I'm sitting on a fairly high sphincter/pucker ratio at the moment and I can't wait to hear what all you seasoned veterans have to say. Before I hit "post" I should include that the only things in the truck proper while towing will be me, the woman, the boy (15 months) and a couple of dogs. Grand total on that is 425#. Ya'll have a good weekend, I'll be here.

---Ray

 

[BLKSHP]

A few questions to fill in the picture...
Factory air suspension?
Is there a weight distribution/anti sway hitch in the picture?
Previous towing experience(s)?
Are you really looking at cross country trips, across the rockies and all, or primarily flat landing it?

 

[h2oman]

I would not. Vacation is to relieve stress not add to it. Plus, legal ramifications etc. There are a million variations on travel trailers out there. There will be one that both suits your needs, and wants, and fits your truck. Air suspension and wd hitch are irrelevant to the GVWR.

 

[scott1k]

Ray, You can relax a bit, I've done all the heavy lifting for you! I have the exact same truck as you except it's a 2013. I also have a trailer with almost the exact same specs, a 2015 Keystone Outback 323BH. I use an Equalizer hitch. Sure, on paper it is right at or over the listed capabilities of the truck but I was pretty sure that with a few simple mods the truck could safely and capably handle the trailer. My experience so far has proven me correct.

I started out right away with Airlift air bags. The first trip with the trailer was about a 400 mile round trip over generally flat terrain with no wind. Truck and trailer handled great. No worries. The second trip was only about a 100 miles round trip but had heavy winds. White knuckle time. The trailer was moving the truck all over the road. The back end of the truck was not planted, it was bobbing and weaving all over the place.

After analyzing and discussing with a couple of friends who are in the truck business, both strongly suggested I upgrade to E rated tires with much stiffer sidewalls. I put on a set of Nitto Dura Grapplers. Sure the cost was a bit hard to swallow, but I knew I would not be comfortable until the stock tires were off the truck. I also read up on this forum and a couple of others and decided to take the T fitting out of the air bag set up and isolate each bag. This prevents the air from moving back and forth between the air bags and stopping the pogo effect.

I just got home last weekend from a 4000+ mile trip with the trailer from Wisconsin to Yellowstone, Idaho, Utah and back. Plenty of wind and grades. My new set up was rock steady, comfortable and no issues whatsoever. Went up and over countless mountain passes with not a worry. The Hemi and 8spd is fantastic combination. The tranny will hold gears downhill, with the trailer, even on the steepest grades. I barely touched the brakes. Gas mileage averaged around 8 mpg for the trip. Not bad considering Hemi was making some serious horsepower pulling up the grades.

I can't say enough how pleased I was with how the truck handled the trip. Sure, a 2500 would have been capable right out of the box, but this truck is my daily driver and needs to fit in the parking garage at work. A 2500 would not.

 

[smurfs_of_war]

When you say you are a newbie- I assume you mean a newbie to towing or at least towing travel trailers. So I will base the following answer on that assumption.

Don't. That is WAY too much trailer for a first timer towing with a tow vehicle that is adequate at best. It's not the weight that concerns me. That is a paper tiger (unless the traffic patrol gets you that is) but it's both the length and lack of experience. The last thing I would want to hear about is- worst case scenario- an accident, and best case scenario you getting so frustrated and paranoid about pulling that thing that you don't want to do it anymore and give up on a great lifestyle.

Look for something a bit smaller my friend, and graduate your way up. You and your family will be much happier you did in the long run. Like mentioned- the 1500 is more than capable- but your experience will likely not be a good one for the first time out.

If you do go this route, by all means the advice offered here, such as above from scott1k, is invaluable. E rated tires, bags, better shocks- all these items will definitely help your experience with that big battleship behind you.

Safe travels whatever you decide

 

[PippinAin'tEasy]

You guys are as thorough as always. Guess I could have been as well. Only a nube to the Ram Truck and longer trailer game. I've been towing vehicles/trailers in some capacity since my first provisional license at 15. Scott, great tip on the Air bag T. I'm installing mine this weekend (Airlift 1000) and I'll be sure to keep them isolated. Also, dealership is installing Blue Ox Swaypro 1000 so WD and sway should be covered. Only have to cross the Appalachians a couple times a year and I don't typically get hung up on running 70+ on the major 'pikes like these other loonies. Low and slow that is the tempo. One more nugget to chew on: heard from a guy at a hitch place that WD lets you tack on 400-500# of tongue weight above the listed 1000# for the class IV receiver. Something about "dead pull". Sound familiar to anyone? Proud to be associated with you guys.

 

[Ramtop]

That's a big camper for 2 adults and 1 child. However, if that is the size you want, I would do more shopping to get a model that is all aluminum construction, not wood and plywood like this one. That will reduce the weight a lot. Also, no matter what you buy for camper, a good weight distribution hitch with sway control set up properly is a must to tow safely.

 

[smurfs_of_war]

You guys are as thorough as always. Guess I could have been as well. Only a nube to the Ram Truck and longer trailer game. I've been towing vehicles/trailers in some capacity since my first provisional license at 15. Scott, great tip on the Air bag T. I'm installing mine this weekend (Airlift 1000) and I'll be sure to keep them isolated. Also, dealership is installing Blue Ox Swaypro 1000 so WD and sway should be covered. Only have to cross the Appalachians a couple times a year and I don't typically get hung up on running 70+ on the major 'pikes like these other loonies. Low and slow that is the tempo. One more nugget to chew on: heard from a guy at a hitch place that WD lets you tack on 400-500# of tongue weight above the listed 1000# for the class IV receiver. Something about "dead pull". Sound familiar to anyone? Proud to be associated with you guys.

You'll love that blueox. Easy on, easy off. Keeps our trailer tracking dead straight and it is built like a tank!

Never heard of that with the additional 4-500lbs on the receiver. I'm not really sure I'd want to gamble on that one- but hey, that's me. Maybe he's right, who knows?

 

[PippinAin'tEasy]

Yeah Ramtop, it's got a bit of heft to it but we are usually on the road 6-8 weeks at a time 5 times a year. Call it a mobile office command kind of set up. Specific floor plan was a necessity, etc. Glad to hear that the truck is adequate, that was the major concern. Nothing worse than finding out in the 11th hour that yer not gonna have the ass to get you down the road. Ram is very forthcoming with the general numbers but vehicle specifics were a bit harder to track down (RAWR and the like). For those that are concerned GVWR will only be approached and not exceeded. Thankfully most of our initial towing will be a lot of flatland with pull through spots. Go ahead and burn down these Wranglers and get something with some beefier sidewalls. Scott1k, what psi are you running yer bags with that Keystone?

 

[smurfs_of_war]

The GVWR for the truck will surprise you. 1404lbs will be gone in a snap.

 

[PippinAin'tEasy]

Still trying to figure out where the 1404 came from. Paperwork from Ram lists GVWR at 6800# with a curb weight of 5200#. That was the cause of my initial confusion. Even their own numbers don't jive. Am I missing something?

 

[smurfs_of_war]

The website and brochures list weights that are about as real as unicorn ****. I learned that the really hard way. Your actual payload for your exact truck as it left the factory is what the door placard states. The payload Ram lists is a bare bones version of that trim- no options. Add anything and you're payload suffers

So with fluids topped off and a tank of fuel and no driver or anything- your curb weight is 5396lbs. GVWR-curb weight= payload. Subtract your likely tongue weight of 1000 lbs and that leaves 404lbs for you, the little lady, dogs, kids, toys, gear, coffee- whatever.

Keep in mind- I think that GVWR rating is worthless as **** on a nun mechanically when you add a trailer because (by Rams own admission in a trucktrend article) it is determined by federal regulations to meet certain acceleration, handling, stopping and ride comfort characteristics when loaded for the single vehicle without a trailer. However depending on jurisdiction- John Q. LAW has different ideas.

 

[RamRodRic]

the manufacturers website lists 962lbs as the tongue weight. with full lp bottles and a battery you'll be well over 1k. you're running out of available payload FAST. imho, you need more truck.
ZT32QB - CrossRoads RV

 

[swanny297]

Logic should dictate otherwise - plenty of trailers out there that are towable for 1/2t - 962 is dry weight, and that is usually understated - your tongue weight will more likely be in the 1150-1300lb range - your weight distribution hitch is probably close to a 100lbs - you have maxed your payload - add occupants to your truck and a few things in the back you have now exceeded your axle GVWR. We shopped for trailers that had listed tongue weights of 500-700lbs and GVWR of 7500 or less even these get close to maxing out capabilities of a 1/2t

 

[h2oman]

And please do not forget that no tires or airbags can increase your payload.

 

[smurfs_of_war]

^^ correct. All they do is improve the ability of your truck to handle the weight over stock configuration. The number on the door placard will never change. So mechanically you're safe, but there may be possible legal issues if you are caught exceeding those numbers.

 

[PippinAin'tEasy]

Obviously, safety is the main issue here. I have yet to drive down the highway without spotting a rig and thinking "Sweet fancy Moses, that dude's nuts.". On the other hand I've watched my truck (model) pull trailers larger than my prospective TT And never thought twice because it was tuned/weighted properly. I understand that I'm hovering (potentially) at exceeding my GVWR by around 500#. 'Ol Scott on page 1 shattered his by my calculations, Swanny raises one hell of a logical argument, and Smurf 'o War comes poetically close to calling out the blessed GVWR as a completely arbitrary (to a point) Federally set guideline. Best I can tell the truck can take it. Should it? I fear this is steadily becoming a semantic debate. I've got the head trailer setup guy from the dealership calling in a few minutes and I'm gonna get the straight skinny. Updates as they happen.

 

[RamRodRic]

have you considered the zt28bh? it has a larger tub, which is always nice, and a much more manageable tongue weight. just puttin' ideas out there.
ZT28BH - CrossRoads RV

 

[smurfs_of_war]

At the end of it I am more than certain it will work out. The one thing that sticks out to me is the number of ratings you're banging the door down on. For example- with my much shorter and lighter (26' 5500lbs) TT I crush my GVWR of my truck. Completely. However the trailer weight is only 60% of the max tow, and I am still significantly lighter than my GVCWR. I swapped some parts to compensate for that. Keep in mind though, our trips are really short and only 2 or 3 times per year. And, as we learned last trip- for an extended stay we are taking 2 vehicles from now on- my passenger weight alone is 900lbs. The truck handles the excess weight just fine after the mods, but that doesn't make it right. It's only in the last few years I have ever thought about GVWR. For the previous 20 years I have been towing and hauling it never crossed my mind- we always used axle weights. I can register my 1500 to whatever GVWR I choose here.
Even exceeding my GVWR for my truck though, I don't have a 33' ass that outweighs my truck flying around back there pushing me all over the place. The combo you're looking at will work- but it might not be much fun, and families and things they haul with them never shrink.

So what it comes down to is not whether the truck can handle it, but whether you and the little missus will enjoy handling it

If I could- I would have a 2500, but like many- I can't justify nor afford that big animal in my driveway for 2 or 3 uses per year. The gap between the 1500 and 2500 here is around $20000.

No judgement passed by me- no matter the route you choose. All I ask for is pics of the new rig!

 

[PippinAin'tEasy]

Will do Smurf. Came across an (old) Popular Mechanics article doing the breakdown on WD hitches just to see how far we've come. I'm probably going to bump up over the GVWR by a smidge with the fam and the dogs but I won't be submarine-ing the rear end. Just finished putting in the Airlift kit. Damn it looks tough without a load. All jacked up and ready to jump. We're all a bunch of back road boondockers at heart and I don't ever plan on putting that big girl in the position to want to do the shimmy shake if I can help it. Still got 36 hrs or so before making the final decision. For now I'm going to focus on a malt beverage.