Heavy Load Towing

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winesalot

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I own a winery and a 25,000 gvwr gooseneck trailer. I currently pull the trailer with a 2001 Ram 2500 cummins automatic. I am getting concerned that the automatic transmission is going to leave me stranded so I want to upgrade to a new truck. The cargo capacity of the truck bed is irrelevant as we are able to shift the load on the trailer around to keep some but not a lot of tongue weight on the truck's rear axles. The trailer is a dual wheel dual axle trailer with electric over hydraulic disk brakes. The truck's job is to have enough power to effectively pull 25,000+ lbs over several passes when we are picking up grapes for the winery. I am a Cummins fan but not so much that I will choose it over a better option.

So what are your opinions on the new Ram 2500/3500 trucks for my application?
 
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winesalot

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What do dual wheels gain for me? I am able to handle the vertical load pushing down on my truck with a 2500 single rear wheel.
 

Burla

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My brother tow heavy equipment for a landscaping biz, I'm talking excavators and heavy loads past what you tow. He ate 3 auto transmissions in his HO cummins, he bought that in arizona and had is shipped here to CA, because that first year they had a CA version that was junk. He then went manual, and has not looked back, it was same gen just a few years later still first HO's over 500 torque cummins. If you get a new commins and pair it with an automatic that is more crazy, I believe it is the same transmission still but 350 more torque = bad for you. Get a manual truck.

Now, my brother never rebuilt his rfe valve body, he had the dealer replace the transmission each time. If what you have now is working, look into rfe upgrades. Tune for psi, plate upgrade, new improved pistons accumulator etc etc. they have a gm solonoid upgrade supposed to be another improvement..

 
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winesalot

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I did the build a truck on the Ram web site and didn't see manual transmissions as an option.
 

Roper46

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I am not familiar with that year, 2001, or generation of Ram. But does it have the tow package with the tow / haul mode?
 

Randy Grant

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Does Dodge still offer a manual transmission in truck?


The last manual transmission Dodge Ram 2500 rolled off the line in 2018. In fact, there are only two trucks left on the market that offer the option of manual transmission: the Toyota Tacoma and the Jeep Gladiator. Some of the biggest names in trucks have ditched the manual transmission in recent years.
 

mtnrider

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I did the build a truck on the Ram web site and didn't see manual transmissions as an option.

They stopped making a manual trans back in 2018? No longer an option
 

18CrewDually

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RAM 3500 6.7 Cummins High Output which comes with the Aisin transmission . Single wheel or dually, it will be leaps and bounds better than what you're getting by with now.
Of course I might be bias but I pull heavy and this works well with no worries.
 

dhay13

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Yeah that is way overloaded for a 2500. Definitely in the 3500 area and likely dually. Load it all up and head to a CAT scale and see how your axle weights are as well as your GCWR. The GCWR on that truck is about 20,000lbs from what I have seen. Towing 25,000lbs you are in the 32,000lb range minimum so extremely overloaded
 
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winesalot

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In a past life I owned a towing company (for 17 years) so I do know something about towing. There are three factors that need to be considered. The ability to pull the trailer, the ability to stop the trailer, and the trucks ability to carry the vertical load placed on the deck.

For the last one, we have a dual axle dual tire trailer that is rated at 25,500 GVWR and the trailer weighs right at 4,500#'s giving us a cargo capacity of just over 20,000#'s. In our work we purchase and haul grapes that are measured in tons so we speak in terms of having a 10 ton capacity on the trailer. Because the fruit is loaded in plastic macro bins we also have the ability to move them around on the deck and can ensure that we have a very balanced load with minimal tongue weight. Therefore, I don't believe dual tires on the truck gains anything for us. We are not putting any significant amount of weight on the tongue of the trailer. Tow trucks and trucks towing 5th wheels do put a tremendous amount of weight on their deck and spreading that weight on to four tires instead of two makes sense. We are handling that task with the dual axle dual tires (total of 8 tires) on the trailer.

As to the ability to stop, we have an electric over hydraulic brake setup with disk brakes on all four corners of the trailer. If I over adjust the brake controller I can smoke the trailer tires when the trailer is loaded. Obviously this is not ideal but the point is I do not need extra braking from the truck as long as I set the trailer brakes correctly.

The last topic is the ability to pull. I am able to pull the trailer loaded with my 2001 but it is definitely underpowered and I believe I am losing quite a bit of power with the transmission slipping and possibly because I could yous a better gear ration in the rear end. With the value of the truck I do not feel it is worth it to invest in a upgraded transmission or regearing the rear end and I prefer to buy a new truck. My interest in this discussion is deciding which truck would best suit me.
 
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winesalot

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I am not familiar with that year, 2001, or generation of Ram. But does it have the tow package with the tow / haul mode?
It does have a tow mode. Not sure what that does other than disabling overdrive. It may alter the shift points.
 

Riccochet

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It's not just the ability to get going and keep going. You have to account for the ability to control and quickly stop with 25k pounds behind you. That's 3500 DRW territory.
 

KKBB

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In a past life I owned a towing company (for 17 years) so I do know something about towing. There are three factors that need to be considered. The ability to pull the trailer, the ability to stop the trailer, and the trucks ability to carry the vertical load placed on the deck.

For the last one, we have a dual axle dual tire trailer that is rated at 25,500 GVWR and the trailer weighs right at 4,500#'s giving us a cargo capacity of just over 20,000#'s. In our work we purchase and haul grapes that are measured in tons so we speak in terms of having a 10 ton capacity on the trailer. Because the fruit is loaded in plastic macro bins we also have the ability to move them around on the deck and can ensure that we have a very balanced load with minimal tongue weight. Therefore, I don't believe dual tires on the truck gains anything for us. We are not putting any significant amount of weight on the tongue of the trailer. Tow trucks and trucks towing 5th wheels do put a tremendous amount of weight on their deck and spreading that weight on to four tires instead of two makes sense. We are handling that task with the dual axle dual tires (total of 8 tires) on the trailer.

As to the ability to stop, we have an electric over hydraulic brake setup with disk brakes on all four corners of the trailer. If I over adjust the brake controller I can smoke the trailer tires when the trailer is loaded. Obviously this is not ideal but the point is I do not need extra braking from the truck as long as I set the trailer brakes correctly.

The last topic is the ability to pull. I am able to pull the trailer loaded with my 2001 but it is definitely underpowered and I believe I am losing quite a bit of power with the transmission slipping and possibly because I could yous a better gear ration in the rear end. With the value of the truck I do not feel it is worth it to invest in a upgraded transmission or regearing the rear end and I prefer to buy a new truck. My interest in this discussion is deciding which truck would best suit me.
Alot of people here go by the numbers only. I think a 3500 SRW will be fine since you feel comfortable doing it now with a 2500. You will be able to stop much easier since they have an exhaust brake now that yours doesn't have. Obviously it will pull it better too with more HP and torque. Good luck with your decision.
 

Scottly

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The ability to pull the trailer, the ability to stop the trailer, and the trucks ability to carry the vertical load placed on the deck.
While Duallys are often sighted as a need for high cargo loads, one thing ia always lwft out of the equation....Torsional stress of the wheel/tire assembly. Think dragsters and bead locks...Bead locks are employed on off-road vehicles with low air pressure because the force against the bead is not enough to keep the tire from spinning on the wheel. On a dragster, it's because the torque being applied to the wheel outmatches the ability of the tire to hang on to the wheel. On Duallys, you have two extra wheels with two extra tire beads to deliver that power to the road, and stop that load when needed. My 3500SRW has a tow capacity about 10K less than a Dually...Same motor, same HO Cummins/Aisin trans combo, same frame...single rear wheel. Just a thought.
 

Farmer Fran

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If you think the 2500 will do the job, and it will, go for it. But I am also in the 3500 camp with that weight
 

gofishn

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Content can be considered bashing another member, warnings like this can ultimately lead to being banned from the forum.
In a past life I owned a towing company (for 17 years) so I do know something about towing. There are three factors that need to be considered. The ability to pull the trailer, the ability to stop the trailer, and the trucks ability to carry the vertical load placed on the deck.....


Then what, in the World, are you doing here? Asking questions?
Low Testosterone/High Estrogen and looking for Arguments?

I ain't NEVER owned a towing company.
Just hauled a bunch of heavy stuff, my entire Life, for those that did.
Not a one of them knew a darn thing, about anything, other than Business.

BTW, you got it **** backwards and all twisted around.
First, and foremost, is the ability to actually stop the load.
Nothing else is nearly as important.
That's why you need a 3500, minimum.

Which shows it is a good darn thing you came here to ask some questions.

No need to reply. I will never see it.


BTW, Handy Dandy Feature.
Click on anyones' Avatar/Icon, that square thing to the left of every post. Look for the Ignore button, then click it.
You will never see that persons drivel, every again.

OP, the above informational statement was NOT aimed, at you, but for everyone else who might have wasted their time, popping into this thread.
 
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winesalot

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Then what, in the World, are you doing here? Asking questions?
Low Testosterone/High Estrogen and looking for Arguments?

I ain't NEVER owned a towing company.
Just hauled a bunch of heavy stuff, my entire Life, for those that did.
Not a one of them knew a darn thing, about anything, other than Business.

BTW, you got it **** backwards and all twisted around.
First, and foremost, is the ability to actually stop the load.
Nothing else is nearly as important.
That's why you need a 3500, minimum.

Which shows it is a good darn thing you came here to ask some questions.

No need to reply. I will never see it.


BTW, Handy Dandy Feature.
Click on anyones' Avatar/Icon, that square thing to the left of every post. Look for the Ignore button, then click it.
You will never see that persons drivel, every again.

OP, the above informational statement was NOT aimed, at you, but for everyone else who might have wasted their time, popping into this thread.
Geez, lighten up a bit.

I was only trying to establish that I am not a rookie and share my mindset set so I could ask the question and have a discussion where I am at.
 
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