Hellwig Sway Bar Installation - huge difference!

[1stHEMI]

I installed the Hellwig on my '11 RCSB and while it was amazing in the corners, it made the truck handle like a skateboard.

What I gained in handling, I lost in ride quality and grip thanks to it jumping around. I ended up removing and selling the bar.

Just food for thought.

I'm curious how you can lose ride quality with a sway bar. It's really designed for reducing body roll, so I've never noticed any affects on regular driving other than smoothing out the vehicle when entering a parking lot or a dip at an angle.

 

[JPT]

I'm curious how you can lose ride quality with a sway bar. It's really designed for reducing body roll, so I've never noticed any affects on regular driving other than smoothing out the vehicle when entering a parking lot or a dip at an angle.

A sway bar ties the body to the axle. If it is too stiff, you will feel every bump. As the axle articulates it pulls/pushes on the body, the stiffer it is, the more you will feel.

 

[tidefan1967]

I went with the middle slot on mine and didn't notice any difference in ride quality. I later added a set of Michelin LTX M/S and they stiffened up the ride considerably especially compared to the Wranglers.

 

[1stHEMI]

A sway bar ties the body to the axle. If it is too stiff, you will feel every bump. As the axle articulates it pulls/pushes on the body, the stiffer it is, the more you will feel.

Seriously, I know how a sway bar works, but thanks for the explanation.

However, I don't feel that this bar is too stiff, as you say. The sway bar is mounted to rubber bushings to accommodate slight articulation of the suspension (such as bumps in the road or uneven surfaces), and as that articulation increases (higher speeds in turns, off road driving) so does the torsional rigidity of the sway bar.

Think of it as a dual rate coil spring. The lower rate absorbs small bumps and is easier to compress; the higher rate supplies firmness when suspension travel increases and is harder to compress. A sway bar is at it's strongest point when the articlulation is at it's extreme (hard cornering), and when articulation is at it's least (normal driving) the bar will flex a little easier. In other words, the rigidity of the bar increases as the steel is wound tighter.

While what you stated is true about very firm (racing) sway bars, the Hellwig bar is hardly a racing sway bar, and is firmest when articulation is beyond typical street or highway driving. Not trying to change your mind about how you feel, but I have not noticed any difference in ride quality until I push the truck a little harder. Grip is increased, and body roll is decreased.

thanks,

 

[1stHEMI]

I went with the middle slot on mine and didn't notice any difference in ride quality. I later added a set of Michelin LTX M/S and they stiffened up the ride considerably especially compared to the Wranglers.

I have the middle slot as well. The innermost slot would be more for heavy payloads or towing.. in my time as a magazine editor I saw a lot of people immediately go to the firmest setting initially, and I would just tell them "it won't make you a better driver". lol

As stated in the article, firming up the rear pushes the vehicle towards oversteer some like it that way, I like the neutral handling I get now.

 

[JPT]

Seriously, I know how a sway bar works, but thanks for the explanation.

I was simply answering the question you asked...

Ride quality is very subjective, when a sway bar stiffens up the ride, some people say it feels better/more planted, others will say it rides like crap.

It is simple though, for a sway bar to be more effective, it has to stiffen up the body roll (linear or progressive), by doing that the ride will be stiffer. Some people like it, others do not.

 

[1stHEMI]

I didn't ask how a sway bar worked - I wrote the article and figured it was obvious that I understood the principles.
I said I was curious how (you) can lose ride quality adding a sway bar, thinking that maybe you're driving very uneven pavement and therefore you're constantly articulating the suspension. On flat pavement the bar is not so stiff that I can feel "every bump in the road". There's not enough articulation for it to bind up the sway bar driving on normal roads.

I don't really notice any stiffness unless I'm cornering or there is a lot of articulation in the suspension. small bumps in the road are absorbed by tires, rubber suspension bushings, coil springs... but to say that just because the bar is stiffer that every bump can be felt? I don't feel every bump because I'm not putting much (or any) demand on the sway bar on small bumps. Taking a speed bump straight on - isn't affected at all with a stiffer sway bar because the bar isn't twisting; no body roll. Taking it at an angle - now there you'll see some articulation and the bar will do its job and limit body roll.

 

[JPT]

I didn't ask how a sway bar worked - I wrote the article and figured it was obvious that I understood the principles.
I said I was curious how (you) can lose ride quality adding a sway bar, thinking that maybe you're driving very uneven pavement and therefore you're constantly articulating the suspension. On flat pavement the bar is not so stiff that I can feel "every bump in the road". There's not enough articulation for it to bind up the sway bar driving on normal roads.

I don't really notice any stiffness unless I'm cornering or there is a lot of articulation in the suspension. small bumps in the road are absorbed by tires, rubber suspension bushings, coil springs... but to say that just because the bar is stiffer that every bump can be felt? I don't feel every bump because I'm not putting much (or any) demand on the sway bar on small bumps. Taking a speed bump straight on - isn't affected at all with a stiffer sway bar because the bar isn't twisting; no body roll. Taking it at an angle - now there you'll see some articulation and the bar will do its job and limit body roll.

Sorry, I simply read what you wrote and responded to that post.

Again, the feeling of ride stiffness is subjective. To you, you may not feel a difference, but there are others that are hypersensitive to suspension changes.

Majority of bumps one takes will hit one tire before other (if at all) i.e. pot holes, turning onto higher/lower pavement, or speed bumps where one tire climbs before the other. A stiffer sway bar will prevent the body from swaying which in turn makes it feel stiffer to some people.

Right now in NY with this seasons heavy snow and plowing we, pot holes are everywhere. I guarantee I would be able to tell a difference in ride quality (until the holes are are all filled).

The roads are so bad here, I still will not ride my motorcycle, at least on the major highways at speed.

I see very few speed bumps in Long Island, but on every single road at every speed I hit potholes that are large enough to move the body, and not wide enough to hit both wheels on the same axle.

 

[1stHEMI]

See, that's exactly what I was aiming for... what you're referring to about ride quality. So yeah, if you have lots of potholes and crappy roads, then sure... I get it that you see a difference. However, it seems your ride quality sucks to begin with because of terrible roads and potholes. I wouldn't blame that on the sway bars, you're always going to feel a reduction in ride quality hitting potholes. What sway bars will do is keep your vehicle more stable when the terrain is all jacked up like that.

But to say that you're hitting huge potholes and the sway bars make ride quality worse is like saying you stepped in a puddle and socks make your feet wetter. lol

 

[Pull Ya]

Jay

 

[Rado]

Very nice write up! Great info and now you have me thinking it may be my next add on Thanks for taking your time to write up this DYI post

 

[1stHEMI]

Jay

 

[smoothee]

Not sure if I'm the only dummy who followed the instructions that came with the Hellwig, but the end links are supposed to go inside the bar, unlike the pictures. Guess I didn't pay close enough attention when I removed the stocker.

 

[1stHEMI]

Not sure if I'm the only dummy who followed the instructions that came with the Hellwig, but the end links are supposed to go inside the bar, unlike the pictures. Guess I didn't pay close enough attention when I removed the stocker.

Unlike what pictures?

 

[1stHEMI]

Very nice write up! Great info and now you have me thinking it may be my next add on Thanks for taking your time to write up this DYI post

Thanks... glad you liked it. I use Hellwig sway bars on my 1965 plymouth... makes it handle great, so I knew I wanted them for the truck.

 

[smoothee]

Unlike what pictures?

The picture on the instructions that came with the bar. I had it correct first but then looked at the pic and second guessed myself.

 

[1stHEMI]

The picture on the instructions that came with the bar. I had it correct first but then looked at the pic and second guessed myself.

EDITED: I have the rear bar instructions and it shows the stock endlinks to the inside, also.


Besides, if you let the endlinks hang down, they hang to the inside anyway. I haven't seen any pics with them to the outside.

 

[smoothee]

My instructions don't look like that (I have the bar for lifted applications). It shows the upper end link mounted to the outside too, so when they hang down they hang outside. I don't know how to add a damn pic on here anymore.