HELP-Which model for my towing needs

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

fireman_pete

Junior Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2022
Posts
3
Reaction score
6
Location
Temecula, CA
We are getting ready to buy a TT, and l am looking to hopefully buy my "forever" tow vehicle. I currently have a 2021 Tundra which I LOVE, but the payload sucks. It is just under 1300# total payload.

We are looking at a TT that will be less than 30' long and weigh no more than 10K pounds total. Most camping will be within 200-300 miles of So Cal, but we are planning to move to Montana or Northern Idaho in about 3 years.

I know I want at least a 2500, but the question is the engine. When I first convinced myself I needed a new tow vehicle, I was sold it had to be a diesel. However, I am worried about the limited payload capacity with the 2500 diesel. I am sure the Hemi would work for my needs, but I want this truck to last for me for the foreseeable future. I have also looked at the Chevy/GMC 2500 as they have a higher GVWR but I love the look of the Ram. I am looking at a Crew Cab, 4x4, 6.5' bed, most likely the Laramie or Limited. Main question is the engine.

When the truck is not being used as tow vehicle, it will sit most of the week and only be used on the weekends.

I would rather buy overkill upfront, and not have to upgrade in a few years.

What do you all suggest.

TIA!
 

zzzxhk

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2019
Posts
23
Reaction score
25
Location
NV
Ram Year
2023
Engine
Cummins 6.7
I'm also looking for my last truck to pull my last TT. 2500's with the Cummins diesel are crap for payload mainly if you get a Laramie or Limited. Bighorn 2500's are decent and show about 2000-2200, my 2016 eco-diesel has 1490 payload, I'm not paying 60k+ for a couple of more pounds and still be borderline for a 30' TT.

If you want a bunch of options in a 2500, get the Hemi. Friend of mine's 2022 hemi 2500 payload is around 3000lbs. Because I want nice options and the price isn't that much difference in price, why not get a 3500 Single Rear wheels (Cummins) and not worry about payload on most 30' TT non 5th wheels.

Get the VIN and https://www.ramtrucks.com/towing/towing-guide.html#/landing/bytowing Thankfully, most Autotrader and dealers have the VINs listed on their websites.
 

Irishthreeper

Senior Member
Military
Joined
Aug 15, 2021
Posts
548
Reaction score
863
Location
Florida
Ram Year
2021
Engine
Hemi 6.4
I pull a 10,500 loaded 5W with my ‘21 2500 Hemi with 4.10’s and it does a great job. That includes two 7,500 mile trips out west from Florida. Especially with a Laramie or Limited your PL would be pretty low with the diesel, as you pointed out. I’d recommend the Hemi 2500 or go up to a 3500 if you want the Cummins.
 

Farmer Fran

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2013
Posts
1,507
Reaction score
1,294
Location
Earth
Ram Year
2020 Limited Loaded - Sold
I totally agree with Irish
 

ramffml

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2019
Posts
2,772
Reaction score
5,017
Location
ramforum
Ram Year
2019
Engine
hemi 5.7
A diesel 2500 will have "low" payload, but that's low compared to the hemi. It can still be well north of 2000 pounds IIRC. That should be more than enough to tow a 10K trailer which would be about 1300 pounds of payload leaving 700+ for cargo and passengers in the truck.

The 6.4 will tow that too, but if you're leaning towards "buying bigger than you need" then definitely try to find a tradesman or lightly option big horn cummins.
 
OP
OP
F

fireman_pete

Junior Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2022
Posts
3
Reaction score
6
Location
Temecula, CA
Thanks for the replies and feedback, I appreciate it. I know I want quite a few options on the truck, and those will eat away at the Payload. I realize a 2200# payload (with the cummins) is still high. I am just concerned that IF we ever want to upgrade to a 5th wheel trailer, I would be very limited on models due to payload. Seems like if I want the Cummins, I should just go with the 3500
 

HEMIMANN

Senior Member
Supporting Member
Military
Joined
Dec 7, 2020
Posts
6,795
Reaction score
17,078
Location
Minneapolis, MN
Ram Year
2017 2500 Laramie Crew Cab
Engine
6.4L HEMI
Thanks for the replies and feedback, I appreciate it. I know I want quite a few options on the truck, and those will eat away at the Payload. I realize a 2200# payload (with the cummins) is still high. I am just concerned that IF we ever want to upgrade to a 5th wheel trailer, I would be very limited on models due to payload. Seems like if I want the Cummins, I should just go with the 3500

Correct
 

Roper46

Senior Member
Military
Joined
May 14, 2022
Posts
142
Reaction score
113
Location
Georgia, USA
Ram Year
2022
Engine
6.7L I6 CTD
The OP stated he is moving to Idaho or Montana soon. I loved in Idaho for sixteen years when I was in the Air Force, and loved it btw. With those mountain passes I highly recommend the 3500 SRW Cummins.

I just purchased my 3500 in August of this year with just over 5k miles and the air suspension with a payload of 4058#. Prior to the 3500 I had a 2020 2500 Cummins with only 2097# payload. My 5er in the pic has a GVWR of 12,200#. I actually weighed my loaded rig at a CAT scale with the 2500 and was almost 300# over payload, and this was loaded camping w just me by myself. The 3500 made a big difference in handling the 5er and no worries about payload with this or maybe a upgraded 5er in the future.

20220823_131030.jpg
 
OP
OP
F

fireman_pete

Junior Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2022
Posts
3
Reaction score
6
Location
Temecula, CA
Thanks again for the details. I did a build up on a limited 3500 with the Cummins, and price is around $95K.... I also looked at the GMC AT4 2500, and with the Duramax, the payload is 3,500#, with a max hitch of 18,500#. That is more than 1,000# more payload than the Ram 2500 with the Cummins.

The price for the AT4 2500 is around $80K. Big difference. I really really like the look of the Ram, but with the price difference, I think I need to look at the GMC too. I realize that this is a RAM forum, and if I not allowed to ask about brands, my apologies.
 

ramffml

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2019
Posts
2,772
Reaction score
5,017
Location
ramforum
Ram Year
2019
Engine
hemi 5.7
Thanks again for the details. I did a build up on a limited 3500 with the Cummins, and price is around $95K.... I also looked at the GMC AT4 2500, and with the Duramax, the payload is 3,500#, with a max hitch of 18,500#. That is more than 1,000# more payload than the Ram 2500 with the Cummins.

The price for the AT4 2500 is around $80K. Big difference. I really really like the look of the Ram, but with the price difference, I think I need to look at the GMC too. I realize that this is a RAM forum, and if I not allowed to ask about brands, my apologies.

I love the new GM's, that duramax is consistently underrated by Ram/Ford guys. But you're not comparing similar trims, the GM Denali trim is equivalent to the Ram Limited.

Anyway, GM's heavy duty lineup is slightly different than Rams. Ram keeps their strongest Cummins for the 3500 only, if you get the 2500 you get the "weaker" cummins. It's weaker than both Ford and GM's 3/4 ton diesel offerings. As you also noticed, Ram's 2500 has much less payload on average, probably due to the use of coil springs. The upside is that you get a better ride quality while unloaded.

If you're looking for 3500 pounds of payload in a diesel Ram, you will need to step up to the 3500. That's just how Rams lineup works, it's not a dig on the 2500 in any way. I actually like this setup, there is more difference between a Ram 2500 and Ram 3500 then there is between a GM 2500 and GM 3500. Ram's 2500 is noticably less capable then the 3500 in both suspension and drivetrain, whereas GM's I often wonder what the difference is.
 

Riccochet

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2013
Posts
1,796
Reaction score
1,618
Location
Somewhere around Charlotte
Ram Year
2020 2500 Laramie Longhorn
Engine
6.4
I agree with the above. If your towing 8000-12000 lbs get a 2500 with the 6.4. You'll appreciate the extra payload. When towing above those weights that's 3500 diesel territory.

The compromise you make with the 2500 diesel is payload, but you get a smoother unloaded ride than the competition that uses leaf springs. There's a bit of give and take with 3/4 ton trucks.

Personally, I can't bring myself to own a diesel from any manufacturer that was built in the last 2.5 years. They're all garbage plagued with issues. I'd get a 2019 or older, or wait for some reviews on the 2023.
 

Farmer Fran

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2013
Posts
1,507
Reaction score
1,294
Location
Earth
Ram Year
2020 Limited Loaded - Sold
Thanks again for the details. I did a build up on a limited 3500 with the Cummins, and price is around $95K.... I also looked at the GMC AT4 2500, and with the Duramax, the payload is 3,500#, with a max hitch of 18,500#. That is more than 1,000# more payload than the Ram 2500 with the Cummins.

The price for the AT4 2500 is around $80K. Big difference. I really really like the look of the Ram, but with the price difference, I think I need to look at the GMC too. I realize that this is a RAM forum, and if I not allowed to ask about brands, my apologies.
Not sure I am following your logic but the Limited is cross shopped to the Denali not the AT4
 

NotSoFast

Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2020
Posts
46
Reaction score
36
Location
Flagstaff
Ram Year
2020
Engine
6.7 liter diesel
The best part about the diesels are the way they tow. Payload could be an issue, especially for the 2500s, but if you are towing in mountains the engine and exhaust braking are key.
Personally, I prefer a smaller, lighter trailer. Easier to fit into tight spots and perfectly fine for two. We keep extra gear in the truck with a shell. We never get close to the payload limit, because the tongue weight is under 500 pounds. But we can easily pull through sandstorms or down twisted mountain roads with cross winds. The diesel is great for that.
 

Ratman6161

Senior Member
Joined
May 16, 2022
Posts
243
Reaction score
256
Location
Buffalo, MN
Ram Year
2022
Engine
6.4 Hemi
Thanks for the replies and feedback, I appreciate it. I know I want quite a few options on the truck, and those will eat away at the Payload. I realize a 2200# payload (with the cummins) is still high. I am just concerned that IF we ever want to upgrade to a 5th wheel trailer, I would be very limited on models due to payload. Seems like if I want the Cummins, I should just go with the 3500
You have said two things in your posts that make the choice clear, at least to me.
1. You want your "forever tow vehical
2. You are "concerned that if we 3ver want to upgrade to a 5th wheel..."

The clear choice given those two things is 3500 diesel.

MY 2500 Bighorn 6.4L + 4.10's has a sticker payload of 2974. Before picking up our travel trailer, I weighed just the truck. Configuration: added running boards, Mopar all weather floor mats, Tonneau cover, full tank of gas, all the Misc stuff I typically have in the truck (tools, tiedowns, jumper cables, tire inflator etc) plus my wife an I in the truck. Weight on a CAT scale was 7,460#. Given the GVWR of 10,000#, that makes what I think of as my "real world payload" 2,540#. If you have more people and or more stuff yours will be less. When planning, I assume 15% tongue weight for trailers and 20% for 5th wheels. So given my 2540 max - 106 for my WDH, that means the maximum travel trailer weight would be 16,226 (tow rating is 16 700). So, I could go wild with TT's as mostly they don't go above 10 or 11k GVWR. Do the same math with a 5th wheel and assume a 200 pound hitch and you get a max 5th wheel gvwr of 11,700#.

With a 2500 big horn diesel, I'll assume a sticker of 2200. Note iveseen actual trucks on a dealers lot with this number. Same truck in a limited, mega cab, will have less payload than many 1500's. Assuming the 2200 sticker and everything else being the same, with a sticker that's 774 less than mine, the real world payload would be only 1,766 left for the RV. Calculating the same as with my truck, the max TT would be 11,067...still pretty much any TT I might select. Max 5th wheel would be only 7,830.

My conclusion: Ram 2500's, both gas and diesel, look like pretty good choices for travel trailers. But the diesels would be a poor choice for 5th wheels. Gas trucks are better as far as payload but still somewhat limited and you would have to choose carefully.

That's why I say, if you are buying a new truck anyway and serious about it being a forever tow vehical, the 3500 diesel is the way to go the 3500s aren't that much more expensive.
 

Ratman6161

Senior Member
Joined
May 16, 2022
Posts
243
Reaction score
256
Location
Buffalo, MN
Ram Year
2022
Engine
6.4 Hemi
Thanks again for the details. I did a build up on a limited 3500 with the Cummins, and price is around $95K.... I also looked at the GMC AT4 2500, and with the Duramax, the payload is 3,500#, with a max hitch of 18,500#. That is more than 1,000# more payload than the Ram 2500 with the Cummins.

The price for the AT4 2500 is around $80K. Big difference. I really really like the look of the Ram, but with the price difference, I think I need to look at the GMC too. I realize that this is a RAM forum, and if I not allowed to ask about brands, my apologies.
Even if going with GM, get the 3500 if serious about never needing another truck wnd might go with a 5th wheel. I know someone who had a 2019 Silverado 2500. LTZ duramax that he was using to pull a smaller 5th wheel. They bought a larger 5th wheel with a 16,800 GVWR. They towed with the 2500 one time. Just getting home f4om the dealer convinced them they didn't have enough truck. Before their first trip, they traded on a 3500 LTZ Duramax. Don't know what he actually paid, but the MSRP was only $1K greater than the AT4 gmc you are looking at. I'm actually a Chevy/GMC fan but if going that route I would definitely NOT choose the 2500 or any AT4. GMC I'd be looking at a SLT and Chevy an LTZ 3500 for your stated goals.
 

gofishn

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Posts
5,082
Reaction score
10,130
Location
Iowa
Ram Year
2022 Ram 1500 5th Gen, Big Horn, 4X4, Crew Cab, 6'4" Box
Engine
hemi 5.7L, 345 cu in
Can talk about that 3/4 ton Chevy all you want. Doubt you'll hurt any feeling here.
Both the GM 3/4 tons and their 1 tons are terrific product with the duramax engines.

I must agree with most, in recommending a one ton.
If this is going to be a forever Truck, mostly parked, used on weekends and for pulling your camper, get a diesel and get a one ton.
Engine braking down long steep slopes cannot be appreciated enough. And I have never, ever, in my entire live done such, with any Truck.
What I have done is pull over and wait for my brakes to cool because the grade was such a test and I did not want to come close to pushing things to the edge.

From decades of experience running Trains & locomotives, I can conclusively say, Engine Braking is damn nice.
When I ednew Engineers, I always told them, learn how to use the Dynamics, First. You always have the functional Brake pads against the wheels
but and this is a mighty important but, if you ever push those beyond the point where they will work, you are flat out Toast.
Why risk it?

When towing significant weight , in undulating territory, use the Grade itself to help with climbing and controlling speed goign downwards. then, if needed, use the Dynamis, or in this case, engine brakes, and last, if absolutely cannot control speed with pedal/Grade modulation nor engine braking, then use the phsyical brakes.

Only ways to control Speed is the grade itself:
slowing down going, as one crests, to allow for speeding up going down.
Speeding up, nearing bottom to help going up slope

Then the physical brakes themselves.

Going with a diesel adds another excellent method to help control your rig.

As regards packages and options, yhes, it will be extremely nice to hae fully rigged, eveery option truck but, is it important enough to justify the reduced payload or added expense of goign with an even higher level of truck, 2500 to 3500 to 4500 to 500?

What options do you NEED.
What is more important, options or payload?
remember, this thing is going sit, all week. How much electronic Gee-Whiz junk do you want to pay to repair after the things out of warranty?
This ain't going to be a daily driver, where not having something will tick you off every time you jump in it.
It's a tool so get the right to to do the job ya need done.

if it be a Chevy, just don;t buy the T-shirt.
I always think of that, "I love your G*** Pride Shirt" meme whenever I see a GM T-shirt.
best friend and his Sons are die hard Gm Farmers and after I started giggling about one of the boys wearing one of those shirts, they have never worn them again.
Probably didn't help that his Wife and their Mom heard me explain what I thoutht was so funny and she cracked up too.
 
Last edited:

dhay13

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Posts
3,212
Reaction score
2,792
Ram Year
2018
Engine
2500 6.4L Hemi 4.10's 'Off-Road'
My 2018 2500 6.4 has 4.10's and a 15,600lb tow capacity with 2973lbs payload and is pretty well loaded up. About the only option I don't have are leather, sunroof, heated seats and ram boxes. I would feel fine towing 12,000lbs but if you are going to be in mountain ranges then a 3500 Cummins might be the best choice.
 

gofishn

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Posts
5,082
Reaction score
10,130
Location
Iowa
Ram Year
2022 Ram 1500 5th Gen, Big Horn, 4X4, Crew Cab, 6'4" Box
Engine
hemi 5.7L, 345 cu in
On another Note,

you might want to hold off on buying any 5'er until you do some serious camping with your pull behind, once you move to Wyoming or where ever.

In Laws have lived in Wyoming, for decades. Some of their favorite areas to camp have become so packed with tight, tiny lanes & Pads that parking their 5'er is almost impossible. Not really a problem, for them, as they have a nice TT too, just for that reason.

That said, there is still plenty of terrific places to go that a 5'er is no problem, whatsoever, but the biggest, most well known areas are getting ridiculous.

This is strictly 2nd hand, from them.
Easiest going people you'd ever meet but the over development is one sore subject. They're of the leave it pristine and make folks sign up for reservations line of thinking. If you can get a reservation, only once in a lifetime, at least you get to experience right. In their 80's and still going strong.
 

JerryETX

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2021
Posts
326
Reaction score
294
Location
Elgin, TX
Ram Year
2016 2500
Engine
Hemi 6.4- 3:73- 6 Speed
I'll admit I'm not a big fans of today's diesels but sounds like you need a diesel. I'm also one that doesn't really understand why 3/4 tons diesels are so popular. Spend the extra $1500 and get a 1 ton diesel and you'll have no concern or worry about weights and where you can and can't go.

Also I'm sure you know this but dealers, sales managers and sales personnel all have quotas (monthly, quarterly and annually). In December all of those quotas come to a head at the same time which is why mid to late December is undoubtedly the best time to buy a new vehicle. Find the one you want online no matter where then go make a screaming deal.
 
Top