Hemi Vs Cummins for slide in camper

[6.4LMegaMan]

I am fully expecting to add airbags or some other solution, probably even if I got 3500. I have the Roadmaster on my Silverado and it's awesome but obviously not an option with rear coils. I read through your posts, and it seems like the Timber Grove bags did the trick? still happy with them? What PSI you running when empty?

I was also considering the Fox or Bilstein shock upgrades for my 1500 but now looking for whole new truck . from my research Bilstein is better than Fox for our needs. If i got a PW then maybe Fox, but for payload/towing Bilsteins. You happy with them still?

A friend of mine has a 5th gen 3500 SRW Mega with Cummins and auto level suspension and said it hauled his camper well which weighed most likely north of 4,000 lbs. I doubt you'd need bags on a 3500 with that light of camper.

I run 10psi unloaded and it rides very nice. I'm very happy to this day with those Timber Grove bags. They never lose air. Not even 1psi. Amazing.

I run Thuren front 2" springs and Fox shocks and like it. Rear is Bilstein with stock springs. Rides great for me both loaded and unloaded. As long as I can keep this truck running I will be keeping it for a very long time for sure.

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[Ramagain]

You won't need bags with a 3500. My 2013 barely squatted with 3200lb tongue (bed) weight from a 21k 5th wheel. You'll be fine.
For what you're planning get the big Hemi (6.4), the Cummins won't get you much better mileage if at all. From a cost comparison the premium isn't worth it unless you're pulling big weight. You could probably by two crate 6.4's for the cost of one 6.7 Cummins...

 

[Nickx86]

Yes. This. I went through this with mine. Although, after installing air bags and stiffer shocks it hauls great but before that it was nothing short of terrifying. If you go 2500 be ready to upgrade your suspension. If you look at my posts you'll see a big write up I did on my experiences.

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I would agree, when I get heavy items up high, the coils springs rear suspension can be a bit tricky if not upgraded. I would go w the 3500 SRW for the slide in camper...Cummins vs hemi, it’s a personal preference really, the newer 8speed make the trucks more enjoyable w the hemi. I don’t have an issues w the older 6 speeds (ford 1/2 truck before and what a POS 6 speed that was) but deeper gearing would be nice

 

[thebuilderman]

My wife and I purchased a slide in camper last year and I am looking to trade in my 15 Silverado 1500 for something more capable. I currently have 1713lbs payload capacity on my LTZ double cab. Camper dry weight is 1350, and wet weight is about 1600 or so. I figure another 600lbs in people, dogs, food and toys, so I am running about 2200lbs or so on any given trip. Obviously a bit above my stated capacity.

This is also my daily driver. ~90mi daily work commute, and a fair amount of going downtown, shopping, etc. as well as unloaded trips into the mountains for biking, skiing, hiking, etc.

I am looking at all options (Ram, Ford, GM). In a perfect world I would stay with a 1/2 ton truck given my daily driving needs, but it just doesn't seem realistic. Despite marketing claims made by all three about max payload on 1/2 ton being in the 2500-3000 range, in reality door stickers show much much lower. Ford f150 with hddp package will get you to 2400 or so but is only available on their lowest trim levels (no leather = deal breaker).

So, here I am looking at 3/4 ton - 1ton options. I would prefer to stay at 3/4 for comfort/ride quality/size/weight concerns (daily driver), and the Ram seems to offer the best option here.

Question 1:
I test drove a Cummins yesterday and it has a door sticker payload rating of only 2020lbs (only 300lbs more than my Silverado). The Hemi is getting MUCH higher payload capacity ratings (~800lbs) than the Cummins, but I cannot understand why. Cummins has like 500lbs more torque. Why is this?

Question 2:
I can build and price a 2500 with the 4.10 rear, but the guy at the dealership says they can only do 3.73 in the 2500, who is right?

Question 3:
I never tow anything, only interesting in hauling payload. What should I get? I live in CO, so lots of mountain driving. (I created a poll for this question)

First thing everyone is right. But they are still opinions. I have one too.
Cummins is heavier and that reduces the payload by about 600 lbs.
I’m also a very biased 2500 Cummins Drivin dude in Colorado and live in Larkspur so I do long drives as well. I went gas once. 2500 Ram with the old 5.7 I think. Great truck but it wasn’t a diesel. I love the way a diesel drives. The extra torque makes it a pleasure to drive at any speed over any terrain.
One day you may change your mind and get something larger or decide to tow your friends trailer with the boat or side x side plus your camper which is also a big sail in the wind. With a 2500 then your pretty maxed out. Then add that wind in your sail. Could be a white knuckler.
The 4.1 is only optioned with the 3500 dually. That’s a VERY stable rig. You could also get the 4.1 in the 2500 but not 3500 SRW. Chrysler logic, maybe lack of logic, go figure.
I recently drove a new 3500 SRW diesel Cummins. Way way better ride than my 2006, 2500 Cummins. Add the optional air bags and you’ve got a perfect rig for now and future. May want those airbags after market but either way a perfect rig in my opinion.
The new 2500 has coils in the back and although I haven’t driven one I hear it’s stellar and it has a great payload and will tow 20k. You could only get it with 3.73’s for the tallest option.
If it was me in your shoes, 3500 Laramie Long bed CUMMINS. Maybe dually but for me SRW. Told you I’m biased. I’ve owned 2 trucks with the Cummins and one with a Duramax. I AM A CUMMINS DRIVIN DUDE! Maybe a bit biased. I probably bleed diesel.
Bottom line you have a great problem to have. And the new HD trucks drive great and are very comfortable.
Cummins 6 cylinder diesel is a torque monster and is actually detuned. Diesel engines are high compression torque monsters that are built to work hard and the 6.4 hemi gas is a less torquey, lighter weight, great engine but drinks more fuel and under load drinks lots more fuel and probably easier on trannies. Oh yeah, it’s also not a Cummins diesel.

 

[thebuilderman]

Thanks for the rapid feedback everyone.

Some clarifications:

• Yep, already have the camper, its a very lightweight (all things considered) hard side made by Travel Lite. Done 6 or so big trips with it already. Fits in my 6.5' bed with the tailgate closed.
• My 1500 does surprisingly well with it, even being over 600lbs above stated capacity. I put the Roadmaster active suspension on and it is a game changer. I am very aware this is a recipe for disaster long term though, hence the shopping.
• DWR is a no go, no way I'm going around town in that beast
• I have a friend in a 3500 cummins SWR with a huge (~3500lb?) slide in camper and it handles it like a champ. He is in the process of adding an $8k suspension upgrade though due to harsh ride quality unloaded. not really what i want to do after spending $80k on a truck. Also not his daily driver so he can manage living in town with it.
• We do 6-12 camping trips a year ranging from a single overnight to a week longs. Lots of trips to Moab and such so a good deal of off roading involved here as well. I do about 23k a year, and I would say 4k of that is camping trips. so vast majority is unloaded miles.

@Farmer Fran Thanks for that, I have been doing exactly what you recommended, and that's what prompted my initial questions - just couldn't understand why the diesel with sooo much more torque had way less payload capacity.

So, it's looking like 2500 Hemi for me. Everyone says not to focus on MPG, but it will hurt going from 19 on average (tracked over 93k miles) to 12-15 as is reported often on the Hemi helluva lot more truck tho

I was driving a 2016 2500 short bed with the 6.4 for work. I liked it. On the 25 above castle rock it sucked but other than that it was fine. A bit weak compared to my ‘06 Cummins 2500. Unloaded and driving both city and highway and like a semi normal human being it got 12-13 mph. If I was lucky.
The 2020, 3500 Cummins diesel I drove had a way better ride and for some reason a better turning radius and it was a long bed. And it was a CUMMINS! So sweet! Plus you don’t have to spend 80+k for your 2021 loaded Laramie 4x4 Cummins. Call Mike (fleet sales manager) at Brandon Dodge in Littleton and ask him to style you out. Tell him Ty sent you. You’ll be in the low to mid 70’s.

 

[dhay13]

I would have to disagree with towing 20,000 with a 2500 Cummins. Even with a minimal 10% tongue weight you will be about maxed out on payload depending on options and package. A typical 2500 Cummins has about 2100lbs payload. Add a passenger and you are already maxed out and that is provided you are very light on tongue weight. There is closer to 800-900lbs weight difference between the Hemi and Cummins, all else being equal. Mine has 2973lbs payload. We towed my sons 2018 Grand Design Imagine 2670MK to Texas and scaled it. The trailer weighed in about 8100lbs and he has a 2018 2500 6.4. The truck with tongue weight weighed in at 9100lbs. If that had been a Cummins he would have been right at his max. He had about 1100lbs of tongue weight (about 13%). On a typical loaded trailer a 2500 Cummins will max out at about 12,000lb trailer weight. I do agree with thebuilderman that if you go Cummins then go with the 3500. That would solve any issues down the road of possibly going to a bigger camper or even towing something behind it.

 

[thebuilderman]

I would have to disagree with towing 20,000 with a 2500 Cummins. Even with a minimal 10% tongue weight you will be about maxed out on payload depending on options and package. A typical 2500 Cummins has about 2100lbs payload. Add a passenger and you are already maxed out and that is provided you are very light on tongue weight. There is closer to 800-900lbs weight difference between the Hemi and Cummins, all else being equal. Mine has 2973lbs payload. We towed my sons 2018 Grand Design Imagine 2670MK to Texas and scaled it. The trailer weighed in about 8100lbs and he has a 2018 2500 6.4. The truck with tongue weight weighed in at 9100lbs. If that had been a Cummins he would have been right at his max. He had about 1100lbs of tongue weight (about 13%). On a typical loaded trailer a 2500 Cummins will max out at about 12,000lb trailer weight. I do agree with thebuilderman that if you go Cummins then go with the 3500. That would solve any issues down the road of possibly going to a bigger camper or even towing something behind it.

I wouldn’t tow 20k with a 2500. I also can’t remember where I read the 2500’s max tow is 20k but I did read it recently. Also I thought the weight on the Cummins was 600lbs more than the 6.4 hemi. Trying to find the weight but failed and don’t want to spend too much time doing so.

 

[dhay13]

I wouldn’t tow 20k with a 2500. I also can’t remember where I read the 2500’s max tow is 20k but I did read it recently. Also I thought the weight on the Cummins was 600lbs more than the 6.4 hemi. Trying to find the weight but failed and don’t want to spend too much time doing so.

Yeah it is about 800lbs difference. Now if you take a stripped down Cummins and a loaded 6.4 then you might get closer to 600lbs but comparing equivalent trucks it is closer to 800-900.
Not sure what the max tow rating is on a 2500 Cummins but I think the 3.73 is close to 19,000-20,000 but these numbers aren't realistic. Same with Ford saying their F150 can tow 14,000. Sure the 2500 Cummins has the power to do it but not the suspension to stay legal. At typical tongue weights a 20,000lb trailer will have between 2000-3000lbs tongue weight. At 2000lbs you are right at your max payload. Not to mention the Class V hitch doesn't even allow for that much tongue weight. I think when they mention max tow ratings they are talking about goosenecks and 5th wheels. A typical 5th wheel has about 20% pin weight so a 10,000lb 5th wheel will have about 2000lbs pin weight. Add in the hitch assembly and you are over payload. My truck is rated to tow 15,600lbs with the 6.4. I wouldn't want to try that. Sure it would be fine in a flat parking lot but in the real world I can't imagine going up some of these hills around here.

 

[392DevilDog]

The Cummins weighs about 600lbs more than the HEMI.

The system weighs 860lbs more.

7508. CUMMINS base weight Crew 6'4
6648. HEMI base weight Crew 6'4

 

[mtnrider]

And here we go again......



.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I like diesels.
I can't afford modern diesels. Trucks are expensive enough as it is.
I'd have to take out a 2nd mortgage to afford one of those today.

 

[thebuilderman]

Yeah it is about 800lbs difference. Now if you take a stripped down Cummins and a loaded 6.4 then you might get closer to 600lbs but comparing equivalent trucks it is closer to 800-900.
Not sure what the max tow rating is on a 2500 Cummins but I think the 3.73 is close to 19,000-20,000 but these numbers aren't realistic. Same with Ford saying their F150 can tow 14,000. Sure the 2500 Cummins has the power to do it but not the suspension to stay legal. At typical tongue weights a 20,000lb trailer will have between 2000-3000lbs tongue weight. At 2000lbs you are right at your max payload. Not to mention the Class V hitch doesn't even allow for that much tongue weight. I think when they mention max tow ratings they are talking about goosenecks and 5th wheels. A typical 5th wheel has about 20% pin weight so a 10,000lb 5th wheel will have about 2000lbs pin weight. Add in the hitch assembly and you are over payload. My truck is rated to tow 15,600lbs with the 6.4. I wouldn't want to try that. Sure it would be fine in a flat parking lot but in the real world I can't imagine going up some of these hills around here.

Great job! Great info! Thanks. Makes a lot of sense.

 

[Blew]

My wife and I purchased a slide in camper last year and I am looking to trade in my 15 Silverado 1500 for something more capable. I currently have 1713lbs payload capacity on my LTZ double cab. Camper dry weight is 1350, and wet weight is about 1600 or so. I figure another 600lbs in people, dogs, food and toys, so I am running about 2200lbs or so on any given trip. Obviously a bit above my stated capacity.

This is also my daily driver. ~90mi daily work commute, and a fair amount of going downtown, shopping, etc. as well as unloaded trips into the mountains for biking, skiing, hiking, etc.

I am looking at all options (Ram, Ford, GM). In a perfect world I would stay with a 1/2 ton truck given my daily driving needs, but it just doesn't seem realistic. Despite marketing claims made by all three about max payload on 1/2 ton being in the 2500-3000 range, in reality door stickers show much much lower. Ford f150 with hddp package will get you to 2400 or so but is only available on their lowest trim levels (no leather = deal breaker).

So, here I am looking at 3/4 ton - 1ton options. I would prefer to stay at 3/4 for comfort/ride quality/size/weight concerns (daily driver), and the Ram seems to offer the best option here.

Question 1:
I test drove a Cummins yesterday and it has a door sticker payload rating of only 2020lbs (only 300lbs more than my Silverado). The Hemi is getting MUCH higher payload capacity ratings (~800lbs) than the Cummins, but I cannot understand why. Cummins has like 500lbs more torque. Why is this?

Question 2:
I can build and price a 2500 with the 4.10 rear, but the guy at the dealership says they can only do 3.73 in the 2500, who is right?

Question 3:
I never tow anything, only interesting in hauling payload. What should I get? I live in CO, so lots of mountain driving. (I created a poll for this question)

So first I own a 2007 Dodge Ram 2500 crew cab longbed with the Cummins 6.7 fully deleted pulling currently a 35 foot toy hauler that is routinely overloaded. I get 14.7 mpg pulling and over 30 empty. You live in a mountainous region so torque is your friend even carrying a camper. Find an 07 with under 200k and delete it and enjoy.

 

[sam darakjy]

Was dealing with the same situation. Had a beautiful 1500 Laramie with awful payload capacity. Switched to a Tradesman 2500 with 6.4 Hemi and now have 3292 payload to haul Cirrus 720 that is about 2300 lbs wet. Everything still stock just added Timbrens.

 

[sam darakjy]

Truck camper questions always get my attention. We traveled using one for years. My comments don't apply to the truck so much as it does the camper.
You don't say if you already have it or not.
I was always amazed at the size and weight of truck campers I met while on the road.
Sooo many were way too much for the truck they were on. And, what amazes me further is the camper dealers who will gladly set their product on a truck that is not suitable. Some of the campers even have slides!! Translate that to added weight.
Unless your going for a light weight pop up IMO there is not any 1/2 ton truck that should be hauling a full size camper. I realize that is not what OP is attempting but just use it as an illustration.
In another thread people were talking of when hauling an RV trailer , relating it to having a huge sail behind them. That is a VERY big thing with truck campers. Plus you get the wind caught between the cab of the truck and the camper overhang. And don't forget all the "STUFF" you will add to the camper.
Point I am making is be very honest with yourself as to what you will need to meet your needs. With the diesel you will also get the engine brake. Braking seemed to be another area some of the truck campers i run across were oblivious too. Not to mention when you don't have any more room in the camper for the "STUFF". you will have the torque to tow a small cargo trailer to carry it all.
Now I will make one comment specific to the truck which will get me in trouble. Hold on a second while I put my flame suit on.
Whatever you get, make it 2WD unless you have a very big need for 4WD when not RV'ing.
If the camper is a monster 8 feet or over, I vote 3500, regular cab, 8 foot bed, 2WD Cummins.

Edit: Sorry my bad! You did give the weight of your camper.
I still like the idea of the Cummins though.

2WD is out of the question for 90% of truck campers. Defeats the purpose of owning one.

 

[BWL]

If you want a diesel in a Ram you need to go 3500 for what you plan to haul. 2500 stuck with gas or Chevy/Ford as they both stopped playing the keep it under 10k game on the diesels and raised the GAWR so their diesels have greater or at least equal payload to the gas as they should.

 

[Different Drummer]

2WD is out of the question for 90% of truck campers. Defeats the purpose of owning one.

Certainly one opinion . In the many years I spent traveling with one I wish I had a dollar for every truck camper I ran across that never saw off-road use. I also wish I had a dollar for every truck I saw carrying a camper that had no business being placed upon the truck carrying it. The decision should be based upon an honest assessment of what any particular individual will use the equipment for. I saw plenty of gravel as well as unimproved forest roads in a 3500 series 2WD truck carrying a fairly large camper ( S&S 8.5 Ft.). Did I go rock crawling? Hell no!
I certainly would not be doing it with the camper I had. Yes, with a smaller, lower center of gravity camper I most likely would have had 4WD if my intended use required it.
One shoe does not fit all. " 90% ". I don't think so. Think the rig in post #34 is doing any REAL 4X4 off roading? I hope not.

 

[BigRed in Ohio]

First thing everyone is right. But they are still opinions. I have one too.
Cummins is heavier and that reduces the payload by about 600 lbs.
I’m also a very biased 2500 Cummins Drivin dude in Colorado and live in Larkspur so I do long drives as well. I went gas once. 2500 Ram with the old 5.7 I think. Great truck but it wasn’t a diesel. I love the way a diesel drives. The extra torque makes it a pleasure to drive at any speed over any terrain.
One day you may change your mind and get something larger or decide to tow your friends trailer with the boat or side x side plus your camper which is also a big sail in the wind. With a 2500 then your pretty maxed out. Then add that wind in your sail. Could be a white knuckler.
The 4.1 is only optioned with the 3500 dually. That’s a VERY stable rig. You could also get the 4.1 in the 2500 but not 3500 SRW. Chrysler logic, maybe lack of logic, go figure.
I recently drove a new 3500 SRW diesel Cummins. Way way better ride than my 2006, 2500 Cummins. Add the optional air bags and you’ve got a perfect rig for now and future. May want those airbags after market but either way a perfect rig in my opinion.
The new 2500 has coils in the back and although I haven’t driven one I hear it’s stellar and it has a great payload and will tow 20k. You could only get it with 3.73’s for the tallest option.
If it was me in your shoes, 3500 Laramie Long bed CUMMINS. Maybe dually but for me SRW. Told you I’m biased. I’ve owned 2 trucks with the Cummins and one with a Duramax. I AM A CUMMINS DRIVIN DUDE! Maybe a bit biased. I probably bleed diesel.
Bottom line you have a great problem to have. And the new HD trucks drive great and are very comfortable.
Cummins 6 cylinder diesel is a torque monster and is actually detuned. Diesel engines are high compression torque monsters that are built to work hard and the 6.4 hemi gas is a less torquey, lighter weight, great engine but drinks more fuel and under load drinks lots more fuel and probably easier on trannies. Oh yeah, it’s also not a Cummins diesel.

Same Here! 2018 RAM 5500 MotorHome & 2020 RAM 2500, Both Cummins. My 2500 get's an average of 21 miles to a gal when not loaded or towing.

 

[sam darakjy]

Certainly one opinion . In the many years I spent traveling with one I wish I had a dollar for every truck camper I ran across that never saw off-road use. I also wish I had a dollar for every truck I saw carrying a camper that had no business being placed upon the truck carrying it. The decision should be based upon an honest assessment of what any particular individual will use the equipment for. I saw plenty of gravel as well as unimproved forest roads in a 3500 series 2WD truck carrying a fairly large camper ( S&S 8.5 Ft.). Did I go rock crawling? Hell no!
I certainly would not be doing it with the camper I had. Yes, with a smaller, lower center of gravity camper I most likely would have had 4WD if my intended use required it.
One shoe does not fit all. " 90% ". I don't think so. Think the rig in post #34 is doing any REAL 4X4 off roading? I hope not.

Not trying to start an argument but I guarantee if you polled 100 owners of truck campers 90 would have 4x4. It is better to have and not need than to need and not have.

 

[sam darakjy]

Not trying to start an argument but I guarantee if you polled 100 owners of truck campers 90 would have 4x4. It is better to have and not need than to need and not have.