Here’s what I don’t understand

[ToddS1971]

Thanks everybody for the replies. I'll level it when it comes time to do it, was just curious why being level when filling was so critical. Maybe filling without leveling would make it too full and that's why they say to be level.

 

[RamDiver]

Thanks everybody for the replies. I'll level it when it comes time to do it, was just curious why being level when filling was so critical. Maybe filling without leveling would make it too full and that's why they say to be level.

So, picture the bucket again, half filled with liquid. Cut a hole on the side that is just above & level with the fluid.

If you tip the hole side up, now the fluid is below the hole and if you fill it to the point of overflowing, you would be adding more fluid and more importantly, more than the designed specification for normal operation or overfilled.

And conversely, with the fluid lined up with the hole again, tipping that side of the bucket down would dump fluid and result in a fluid underfill.

These gravity-based level checks are for the birds. The additional cost of having a dipstick would be inconsequential and lost in the overall price of the truck.

And, it would keep Burla and the rest of us much happier.

Does that make it more clear?

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[Jeepwalker]

Ok, Looong explanation: LOL

Transmission fluid level has always been critical on auto trannie's from the beginning. The range as everyone knows is ~ 1/2" or so, on the dipstick. There's a narrow range of tolerance due to the following reasons:

1) A quart is more than a "quart": What I mean by that is once the oil pan is bolted back onto the transmission, the valve body (or part of it anyway), filter etc, protrudes into the pan a fair amount taking up a lot of the available space in the oil pan. It's like putting a bunch of rocks in a coffee can, and it only takes a little water to fill it up. Vs if the can were empty. That's probably a lousy example but you get the idea: a quart makes more difference in overall level in the transmission than simply pouring a quart into an empty pan. Which is why in the old days it was printed on the dipstick "only add 1 pint" ..something like that.

2) Foaming/Starving: Transmission shifting works by valves routing hydraulic fluid accordingly, and using hydraulic fluid pressure ..a lot of it, to push servo's and hold clutch packs tightly together (so the clutches grip/hold).

Foaming: If the fluid becomes too high (overfilled), transmission fluid can get into the rotating parts/gears, etc higher up inside the transmission. If that happens, it can lead to foaming or 'frothing' of the fluid. Think of a stack of bubbles in a bath and how delicate they are. Foam & bubbles contain a lot of air which is not compressible (like fluid), and if some (even a little) gets sucked into the areas which require pressure to hold clutches 'tight' ....suddenly can't hold the clutches tight. So slipping or surging can occur.

Starving: Just as it sounds. If the fluid becomes excessively low, there is the possibility of air getting sucked into the transmission pump, valve body and rest of system. Just like above, air isn't compressible and there won't be enough pressure to hold the clutch packs as tight as they need to be. And transmissions operate in the range of 150-350 even 400# (PSI) range. So a little air can lead to reduced pressure (clutch slipping). That could lead to lubrication problems and burned clutches, things like that, because they're normally 'bathed' in tranny fluid, if not rectified soon enough.

That's the real ROOT reason transmission fluid needs to be set at a pretty 'tight' range. And having the transmission pan 'level' ensures the fluid is at the right level. Don't run them too high, or low and you'll have a lot of happy miles/KM's!!

Hope it helps

.

 

[turkeybird56]

Ok, Looong explanation: LOL

Transmission fluid level has always been critical on auto trannie's from the beginning. The range as everyone knows is ~ 1/2" or so, on the dipstick. There's a narrow range of tolerance due to the following reasons:

1) A quart is more than a "quart": What I mean by that is once the oil pan is bolted back onto the transmission, the valve body (or part of it anyway), filter etc, protrudes into the pan a fair amount taking up a lot of the available space in the oil pan. It's like putting a bunch of rocks in a coffee can, and it only takes a little water to fill it up. Vs if the can were empty. That's probably a lousy example but you get the idea: a quart makes more difference in overall level in the transmission than simply pouring a quart into an empty pan. Which is why in the old days it was printed on the dipstick "only add 1 pint" ..something like that.

2) Foaming/Starving: Transmission shifting works by valves routing hydraulic fluid accordingly, and using hydraulic fluid pressure ..a lot of it, to push servo's and hold clutch packs tightly together (so the clutches grip/hold).

Foaming: If the fluid becomes too high (overfilled), transmission fluid can get into the rotating parts/gears, etc higher up inside the transmission. If that happens, it can lead to foaming or 'frothing' of the fluid. Think of a stack of bubbles in a bath and how delicate they are. Foam & bubbles contain a lot of air which is not compressible (like fluid), and if some (even a little) gets sucked into the areas which require pressure to hold clutches 'tight' ....suddenly can't hold the clutches tight. So slipping or surging can occur.

Starving: Just as it sounds. If the fluid becomes excessively low, there is the possibility of air getting sucked into the transmission pump, valve body and rest of system. Just like above, air isn't compressible and there won't be enough pressure to hold the clutch packs as tight as they need to be. And transmissions operate in the range of 150-350 even 400# (PSI) range. So a little air can lead to reduced pressure (clutch slipping). That could lead to lubrication problems and burned clutches, things like that, because they're normally 'bathed' in tranny fluid, if not rectified soon enough.

That's the real ROOT reason transmission fluid needs to be set at a pretty 'tight' range. And having the transmission pan 'level' ensures the fluid is at the right level. Don't run them too high, or low and you'll have a lot of happy miles/KM's!!

Hope it helps

.

Lots of good explanations/ Heck, on my Honda GL 1800 Gold Wing Motorcycle, Manufacturer stupid explicit on oil level. I have to have exactly 4 quarts in the motor when level after filter and change. Just 1/4 qt overfull, and a pressure check relief valve attached to a drain hose opens up and blows oil out the motor. Ask me how I know, lol. Kinda like these trannys, need a very specific viscosity and proper fill at temperature specified. BOY, do I miss having a dipstick for my RAM, lol.

 

[Wild one]

Wow, that pan looks pretty sweet. And $320 isn't too bad for what is and only $20 extra for a brushed or black finish. I'd gladly get one if you were paying.

View attachment 517398

View attachment 517400

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I've been running the PPE pan for close to a 1/2 dozen years now.Canadian Diesal in Loydminster is the cheapest place in Canada to buy it.

Transmission Pan - 8HP70 EcoDiesel 1500 Ram - Brushed

The factory plastic trans pan is discarded each time you do a ZF 8HP70 transmission service. Upgrade to a permanent solution with better performance benefits.PPE has engineered an exclusive cast aluminum pan with a replaceable filter (included), which means unlike the factory part there is no...

www.canadiandieselonline.ca

 

[Wild one]

Thanks everybody for the replies. I'll level it when it comes time to do it, was just curious why being level when filling was so critical. Maybe filling without leveling would make it too full and that's why they say to be level.

Filling it with-out leveling the transmission results in not enough fluid,not overfull.The fill /level plug is behind the pans sump,so if you don't level the pan rail,you actually can't get enough fluid into the sump before it starts to run out of the fill hole

 

[Daw14]

They’ve figured without a dipstick there’s less chance of it burning up , just didn’t make it to the diesels fast enough .

 

[RamDiver]

I've been running the PPE pan for close to a 1/2 dozen years now.Canadian Diesal in Loydminster is the cheapest place in Canada to buy it.

Transmission Pan - 8HP70 EcoDiesel 1500 Ram - Brushed

The factory plastic trans pan is discarded each time you do a ZF 8HP70 transmission service. Upgrade to a permanent solution with better performance benefits.PPE has engineered an exclusive cast aluminum pan with a replaceable filter (included), which means unlike the factory part there is no...

www.canadiandieselonline.ca

Wow, great prices at that distributor.

Traditionally, our Canadian prices are at least 50% more and this one is only $413.09 .
That extra 9 cents is a bother, though. LOL

Did you perform pre/post-testing to determine if you gained any improvements other than the requirement for more ATF?
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[GTyankee]

The German company, ZF Friedrichshafen AG
makes transmissions & driveline components for several companies

When it comes to things like Earth Moving Equipment, almost all BIG equipment has Automatic Transmissions & they have a sight glass for the fluid level, as they do on the Hydraulic Fluid Level

To me, having to throw away the transmission pan every fluid change, has to be the most unfriendly thing that you can do to the Enviorment

 

[RamDiver]

The German company, ZF Friedrichshafen AG
makes transmissions & driveline components for several companies

When it comes to things like Earth Moving Equipment, almost all BIG equipment has Automatic Transmissions & they have a sight glass for the fluid level, as they do on the Hydraulic Fluid Level

To me, having to throw away the transmission pan every fluid change, has to be the most unfriendly thing that you can do to the Enviorment

You might want to consider one of those PPE pan covers.

I would imagine it would pay for itself eventually and better protect the environment.
A definite win win!

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