How to stop the startup tick. change to different oil?

[Burla]

Another member posted this today, mind you a 10k interval synthetic versus conventional 500k miles.

Testing different oils over 4 years and 1 MILLION miles

Josh from Valvoline conducted this test for almost 4 years at the Valvoline Test Facility in Kentucky, and we were lucky to get to come in just for the end t...

youtu.be

 

[Burla]

I think we're confusing different ticks here. The lifter bleed down tick (nasty rattle for 2 seconds then immediately silent) won't be solved by changing to Redline or LG etc. I've used all the oils and additives listed in this thread in my truck and then some, and I can make it rattle on demand with any of those oils or combinations. The revving to 2000+ before hand might help. The rattle is caused by shutting down the engine too quickly after it starts, if the oil doesn't get hot enough or perhaps run through the engine long enough then if there are a few+ hours between shutdown and the next time it starts (especially in the cold winter months) then my truck will rattle each and every time like clock work; different oils or filters or viscosity's don't help here, in my truck anyway. It's an ugly sound but not the one to worry about.

The 3.6 pentastars have been known to have a startup rattle like this too though not as extreme and often as on the hemi.

Actual lifter tick, the tick you hear on a hot idle, I believe that's where different oils can help quiet things down. This tick is the concerning one, a hot idle tick is bad news and can lead to wiped cams and damaged lifters and shavings in the engine.

With respect, you are making broad statements based on your experience, but many rams go silent and have no effect after lifter bleed down, as you know some do not, but it is worth a try. Have you tried mos2 as well? Generally that's the last product I opt for, but I would if it was the only way to stop the tick. From 1 to 10, how sure are you that your tick if lifter bleed and not e bolts?

 

[ramffml]

With respect, you are making broad statements based on your experience, but many rams go silent and have no effect after lifter bleed down, as you know some do not, but it is worth a try. Have you tried mos2 as well? Generally that's the last product I opt for, but I would if it was the only way to stop the tick. From 1 to 10, how sure are you that your tick if lifter bleed and not e bolts?

I don't worry about the lifter bleed down because I know how to trigger it, so I avoid doing that. In my truck, it only happens as described where it's a very short run with the oil not exceeding about 55C, and then at least 1 to 2+ hours of down time; the next time it starts, I get the clatter. So I plan for those few times I know I'm having a trip like that, and just remote start and let it idle a few minutes so that the truck gets hot enough where the clatter doesn't happen.

It's always the same trip to the same location, which is how I figured that out for my truck. I can go a whole 8+ months without startup clatter if I'm careful. In the summer its harder to trigger it because the oil is hotter just due to ambient temps. Winter time, I definitely remote start for those few trips and make sure the oil hits min of 55 but generally I try for 65+.

It's not exhaust manifolds, if you listen to those clips I posted above its a pretty clear distinction; the startup rattle turns off instantly in like 2 seconds, exhaust takes much longer and gradually fades out over time, and the type of sound is different. Lifter bleed down clatter will be gone before the RPMs settle down to 700ish but exhaust manifolds you'll hear as you're driving down the road (if you pass a building really close etc, something to bounce the sound off).

I actually have a broken exhaust manifold now as well (I bought BD Diesel manifolds to replace them, just haven't installed yet), that appeared about 2 months ago and the two sounds are quite distinguishable. Maybe I should try for a recording before getting the manifolds replaced, one recording where we can hear both the lifter bleed down and manifolds at the same time?

But the other reason I can be certain I'm identifying the two different sounds is because broken exhaust ticking is there on every cold start no matter what you do. Once its broken, you'll never have a time where you start your truck cold and don't have some raspy ticking. Startup rattle in my truck, I can make sure it doesn't appear by ensuring it gets up to a minimum oil temp before turning it off. (I haven't tried the revving to 2000+ rpm thing yet, that's something to put on the todo list.)

 

[13RAMHEMIPA]

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/royal-purple/filters/engine-oil-filter/80c2d8dbb188/royal-purple-oil-filter/ryp1/20820

 

[13RAMHEMIPA]

RP 20-820 in stock at O'Reilly. See link in my last post. I just a had a couple shipped to me the other day. Cheapest around compared to other sources I checked. Paid $18.99 each. Others are selling them for $35+.

 

[GaryalpUSA]

Only reason for a 5wt oil is mileage. 120k on my 16 5.7 2500, Tow a 10k lb horse trailer and a 5k lb car hauler a lot. Have been using good ole 10-30 synthetic always. N0 ticks, No change in mileage or power and a 40 psi at idle oil pressure. Walmart super tech. Cheap and the same ASE rating as Mobile 1. Why pay for all the hocus pokus super dooper oils. If the SAE ratings are the same it has the characteristics as other oils with the SAME rating. Price makes no difference. BTW I used super tech oil in my 95 E36 M3 race car when I was racing a few years ago. Never had a motor go away because of oil problems. The die hard BMW folks paid tons more for that special bmw oil that didnt make a difference. oh well......

 

[Jas34]

I don't worry about the lifter bleed down because I know how to trigger it, so I avoid doing that. In my truck, it only happens as described where it's a very short run with the oil not exceeding about 55C, and then at least 1 to 2+ hours of down time; the next time it starts, I get the clatter. So I plan for those few times I know I'm having a trip like that, and just remote start and let it idle a few minutes so that the truck gets hot enough where the clatter doesn't happen.

If you know when it's going to happen and didn't get a chance to warm it up, try the clear flood mode (foot all the way to the floor) cranking for 5-10 sec before starting. It won't start with your foot to the floor and the lifters will pump up.

At least on a Ford it does. I used to do this on my Expedition (5.4). The startup rattle on those was timing chain caused by leak down of the tensioner.

 

[ramffml]

If you know when it's going to happen and didn't get a chance to warm it up, try the clear flood mode (foot all the way to the floor) cranking for 5-10 sec before starting. It won't start with your foot to the floor and the lifters will pump up.

At least on a Ford it does. I used to do this on my Expedition (5.4). The startup rattle on those was timing chain caused by leak down of the tensioner.

I use that after every oil change but hate doing that in a crowed parking lot. Either way it sounds like you have a busted truck: either it cranks and cranks and stops and then cranks and fires, or, it fires up right away with a nasty chatter.

 

[crazy jerry]

No way to get rid of that random startup Tick its part of the terrible design you can try some things mentioned above but at the end of the day probably wont make a huge diffrence I have done alot of cam/lifter jobs just change your oil every4-5k miles and use 5w30

nonsense. start up tap is because the lifters have bled down and the filter has allowed the oil in passages to drain back to the pan. other push rod motors will do the same thing under the same circumstances.
in 7yrs of having a 6.4 i can count on one hand the times its tapped. pup 0w40 and wix xp is all ive used since new. oh and my truck sits parked for a week at a time on a regular basis

 

[crackerjack1957]

Try adding an extra half quart of oil & or park level or engine downward at a slight incline.
You should be at 7.5 with a larger than stock filter anyway.

 

[Ken226]

Mine did that once. It scared the **** out of me, for about 2 to 3 seconds.

I went to a dentist appointment. The dentists office was about 600 yards from my house. I started the engine and drove to the appointment and parked. About an hour and a half later when I started it up to leave, it sounded like it was coming apart for a couple seconds.

It hasn't done it since.

 

[sooper cooper]

Lucas Synthetic oil treatment, 1/2 qt at every oil change (7,000 mi) never had a tick at 89,000 mi

 

[Steve70]

No, I have said many times never preemptive replace cam and lifters after reading the multiple stories here, and the guy spends a bunch of money, and the tick still exists. The issue 99% of the time has nothing to do with the cam or lifter design. The 1% would be when a roller is smashed, BUT the likely cause of that is still the design of the lubrication valleys. A high volume pump might help, but it might not as well. MDS delete may make it worse, the mds system lubricates more not less.

Lubrication strategies are the best option, look up my sig and those threads and read what people have done here. There are products that leave a film on hot metal, Pennzoil 5w20 ain't it. pair a strategy with a high flow filter, many guys here have killed start up tick and worse, including me. Many guys don't have start up tick, no it's not normal, you can help yourself by following the 100s that came before you. If it doesn't work, what did you lose for trying? Redline 5w30 80% lubegard biotech 50% success, you can right now just dump biotech in your current oil, see if it helps.

I am going to try the lubegard as Redline is pretty scarce around these parts. I will update on what I experience. Thanks for the post!

 

[El_Dude]

ok the orieilly's site says the RP 20-820 Does not fit my truck and it's telling me to use RP 10-48.

Which RP oil should I get, High Performance or High Mileage? truck has 75K miles.

 

[JHoward]

ok the orieilly's site says the RP 20-820 Does not fit my truck and it's telling me to use RP 10-48.

Which RP oil should I get, High Performance or High Mileage? truck has 75K miles.

The Royal Purple 20-820(MOPAR MO899 equivalent), fits my 2017 5.7 HEMI 1500. It's a tighter fit, but can be wrangled up into place.

 

[Burla]

ok the orieilly's site says the RP 20-820 Does not fit my truck and it's telling me to use RP 10-48.

Which RP oil should I get, High Performance or High Mileage? truck has 75K miles.

ram changed oil filters from early 4 gens 20-820 to 10-48 but the larger one will fit 99% of the time, see oil filter thread. The 10-48 is restrictive filter and it cousin filter has a tsb for that reason, restrictive. If you have a hard time getting 20-820 I'd try and get fe2 fram Walmart, it's the same filter just less holes, fram xd2 ultra as well, all good low restrictive filters. On a tick thread you really don't want to use the small filter.

 

[Burla]

Redline HP is different then royal purple oil, just in case.

 

[El_Dude]

ok got the bigger filter and the oil ordered. will change this weekend if it doesnt rain in north houston.... we need it though...

 

[El_Dude]

I just got the filter. it looks so much wider than I remember the OE filter being. It looks like about the same height, though.

 

[EdGs]

I've used the Fram XG2 and FE2 in my '15 SLT. They do fit ok. I have hear that some Ram owners cannot get them in place, though. I'm not sure what is different on their trucks.