Howy - Looking for 2025 Ramcharger Info, Stopping by...

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Docwagon1776

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I guess Toyota is making up their 38% efficiency number. https://www.greencarreports.com/new...ine-achieves-thermal-efficiency-of-38-percent
I guess Southern Illinois University is making up teaching DC machines. https://www.engr.siu.edu/staff/spezia/Web332A/Lecture Notes/Lesson 9 332ac.pdf
I guess Tesla was making it up when they told C&D Mag they went from 80% to 90% efficient. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a...ial-media&utm_source=twitter&src=socialflowTW

I doubt they are lying, but I assume we both understand difference between general and specific. Do you think Toyota's 1.3L is the equivalent for every gasoline motor? Obviously not, and I assume you don't think it does. So while we can guess what the numbers *could* be based on general ranges, the numbers here are simply made up in regards to this specific vehicle. Correct? Or do you believe your numbers are accurate and not just a guess based on what you assume?

Perhaps of interest to the specific discussion, the article you linked to about *how* Toyota got a more efficient ICE: "Used on the 1.3-liter unit, Atkinson-cycle engines typically feature variable valve timing, allowing inlet valves to remain open as the compression stroke begins. The lower air density leads to a more efficient fuel burn and higher thermal efficiency. Typically, the engines lack power compared to conventional Otto-cycle engines--offset in hybrids by additional power from the electric motor."

So isn't the article proving *my* point that ICE working in conjunction with an EV power source can be made more efficient?

You're assuming spherical cows, meaning your oversimplifying via removing multiple variables. Gas motors lose most of their potential via heat, common knowledge, no argument...but that's not the point. We're comparing an ICE running constantly vs an ICE running *intermittently*. We're comparing an ICE that must have a wide powerband to drive a vehicle acceptably from off idle to top end rpm vs a narrow powerband that has to only be optimized for a very specific rpm range (like the Toyota engine you yourself linked to. Do you not think that will lead to a gain in efficiencies for the ICE or do you disagree with your own source now?

What parasitic loss do you assign to a traditional transmission and pumpkin set up?

What gains do you then add back in to the system for regenerative braking?

Do you see how those answers are variables that modify the numbers taken in a vacuum that you posted above?
 

bballr4567

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Oh hell no, do not insult the OG Ramcharger with some POS EV pickup. I owned and loved a 1984 Ramcharger, AKA Bluebeast, this upcoming monstrosity is nothing close to the Ramcharger just like the new "Bronco" is nothing like the OG Bronco.
It's not an EV. You have to be more specific. It's a PHEV.
 

Atticus

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A few responses here where maybe the new Ramcharger wouldn't be a good fit.... but I believe there is a BIG segment of potential buyers that Ram is targeting and this will be a big hit.

These attributes reflect the sweet spot of prospective buyers;

1. "Everyday" driving needs are most commonly < 150 miles so the vast majority of day to day driving can be accomplished in 100% EV mode.
2. Owners have a convenient means to charge the Ram each night
3. Owners have favorable electricity costs
4. Owners have an occasional need to have a driving/towing distance well beyond the ~150mi EV range (maybe 70 miles when towing)

These attributes fit my needs pretty well. Over a period of 4-5 years, likely 70-80% of my usage could be in pure EV mode. On those occasions where I need to drive or tow longer distances.... I CAN, and at not too much of a penalty. Because of the size of my solar system, my electricity costs are literally $0 which means that "fuel" costs are only incurred in the minority part of my usage scenarios.
 

NCRaineman

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These attributes fit my needs pretty well. Over a period of 4-5 years, likely 70-80% of my usage could be in pure EV mode. On those occasions where I need to drive or tow longer distances.... I CAN, and at not too much of a penalty. Because of the size of my solar system, my electricity costs are literally $0 which means that "fuel" costs are only incurred in the minority part of my usage scenarios.
You are in the minority of people who would benefit from a vehicle like this. But even with solar your electricity isn't "free"... that solar equipment cost money and has to be maintained. You can't just ignore those costs and say "I charge for $0."
 

rzr6-4

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You are in the minority of people who would benefit from a vehicle like this. But even with solar your electricity isn't "free"... that solar equipment cost money and has to be maintained. You can't just ignore those costs and say "I charge for $0."

You mean green energy isn't totally free OR clean?? WWWHHHHAAAATTTTT. Greta lied to me.
 

Atticus

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I'm in the minority? How so?

1. The vast majority of folks are going to have every (normal) day driving distances < 150 miles.... so they will be able to be in 100% EV mode.
2. Means to charge overnight: Again, I think most people will have this. If not, I think the value/convenience proposition of an EV is much less favorable.
3. Yes, my electricity costs are extremely low but the RamCharger (like all other EVs) will let you select the charging times so that you have the most favorable rates for your area - typically after 9PM and before 8am.
4. "Occasional" need to drive >150 miles (or tow longer than ~75 miles).... this is really related to 1) above. If you are doing this a lot, maybe the Ramcharger isn't right for you. But, many, many people are buying trucks for their flexibility (safety, comfort, etc) but don't necessarily do towing tasks all that frequently.

So, we'll have to disagree. THIS is the "segment/buyer" that Ram is targeting and betting 10's if not 100's of $M to bring this vehicle to market.

Oh, and yes, my electric costs ARE free. This is already a sunk cost for me and production is what production is. I did exaggerate a bit when I said $0 because the reality is that SCE will pay me. Attached is my first full month's energy bill and you can see for yourself.
 

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Atticus

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Also curious why you believe there are "maintenance costs" associated with solar. This is our third house with solar and each time we installed ourselves and all 3 systems were Enphase systems (if your cared), but we've never had to spend any money on maintenance.
 
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dafish

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I'm not going to bother to dig deep into most of the resulting comments from my intro, but I will say these things:

1) It's obvious who has real-life experience w/EV's and PHEV's and who is repeating stuff they heard and/or fear.

2) Doc and Atticus have well responded, and I don't see anything they've said that's incorrect or I'd disagree with. I will add some real data though:

My heating, cooling, lighting, etc bill is retired by solar, and I use about 18MW/annum plus 6MW for the Tesla. Skipping the car: I avoid ~2,400 per annum in electricity costs. You can be darn cetai when I see this house it will be worth considerably more than a similar house that gets to waste that much, or more, per year. So yea, I could argue my ROI was the moment I installed the thing.

Certainly the electric and gas bill I save, close to ~$5k per year, is just fine w/me.

3) Home charging, where the vast majority of charging will be done is, for most of the US, pennies on the dollar relative to gasoline. So while I too own a solar plant with excess capacity (yep, that makes it free), the savings for those charging at home will be significant.

Now is it cheaper enough? Are the environment aspects of value? For many folks yes, but it's too early to predict cost factors for this thing.

4) Some data: My YLR consumes 6MW/annum and we put about 16K miles/year on it. If we assumed an similar sized/performance AWD crossover got 26MPG average (generous) and used $3.69 (national average fuel cost this year) we see an ICE would have consumer ~$2,271 in fuel. Mine was of course free (I apply that to the purchase of the Tesla), but in my area 13C per KW is average to high, so $780 dollars. That's 34.3% (hey, I was close enough). Note I leaned towards generous numbers too!


Two reference links that are reasonably accurate:


 

Atticus

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I really like (and largely agree with) this TED talk. In the least, I think you'll find it interesting if not controversial.

EV TED Talk

Regarding the topic of the cost of driving an EV, I think each prospective owner really needs to do their own calculations. Here in SoCal, our electricity costs are pretty dang high... and the cost per kW is tiered in your monthly consumption calculations. As an example, typically the highest usage costs are in the summer time when many people are using their AC a lot. In these months, many households are delving into the very highest tiers of energy. (This non-linear electric costs is the reason that solar can be attractive. In many cases, people can generate 30% of their energy needs, but reduce their electric bill by 60% because they get themselves out of these stupid-high tier rates.) I digress. Prospective EV buyers should sit down and understand their electric bills and then factor in the additional EV impact and try to get an accurate assessment of the true cost/mile. (Too many people rush to over-simplify their approach thinking that they will eliminate their gasoline bills - true, but then they fail to add in the cost of electricity - or they add it in a a very favorable but unrealistic base cost/kW rate.)
 

star_deceiver

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My yearly average is $0.34/kWh after all the fees and taxes and such. There is only one tier here, expensive. I question the payback time on a $10k-$30k solar system that generates next to nothing in the winter months. Hail insurance…. Let’s not start on higher rates because they feel like charging us more.
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The info I have on house solar in my area is a break even period of 10-15 years…. But, this is also coming from people who can spend $30k on a whim and don’t really care what the electrical rates or break even times are.

This is the largest hailstone I found at my house. 3 blocks away they were double in size. I’ve been lucky.
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