Hurricane direct injection

[TRXX]

How has Stelantis addressed the build up of carbon in the intake valves that happens to direct injection engines. I had to do it twice to my VW in 165,000 miles.

 

[SniperDroid]

How has Stelantis addressed the build up of carbon in the intake valves that happens to direct injection engines. I had to do it twice to my VW in 165,000 miles.

Had to do what?

 

[brian42]

The HEMI (V-8) and Pentastar (V-6) do not have direct injection so the EcoDiesel would be the only potential issue. The answer is probably the same as your VW...clean your intake or pay a shop to do it.

VW addressed that (at least in the EA888 engine). My Passat has the gen 3 version (1.8L) and has both direct and port injection to prevent carbon buildup.

 

[JF19Longhorn]

Did they use dual injection like the Ford Ecoboosts twins or just DI?

If not, it'll be just like your VW or worse.

 

[mikeru]

Had to do what?

Engine decarbonization service. Gasoline direct injection engines are particularly susceptible to carbon deposits building up on the back of the intake valves and surrounding areas of the intake runners.

This is why I lease my Audi LOL.

 

[SniperDroid]

Engine decarbonization service. Gasoline direct injection engines are particularly susceptible to carbon deposits building up on the back of the intake valves and surrounding areas of the intake runners.

This is why I lease my Audi LOL.

So, what's the benifit of DI?

 

[mikeru]

Improved fuel economy and performance. You should Google it if you're interested in learning more about it.

 

[brian42]

RAM: 5.7L | 395 Hp @ 5600 RPM | 410 lb-ft @ 3950 RPM | .07 Hp per lb | 69.3 Hp per liter | 14.5 mpg average

VW: 1.8L | 170 Hp @ 4800 RPM | 184 lb-ft @ 1500 RPM | .05 Hp per lb | 94.4 Hp per liter | 27 mpg average

My Passat DI engine has peak torque down low just like my diesel was. It's 2K lbs lighter than my RAM was (~3500 lbs for my VW compared to ~5500 lbs for the RAM) and it's not as quick (RAM 0-60 was mid-6 sec and my Passat is mid-7 sec) but it's about that last number - average MPG. I drive over 25K miles a year and my gas bill got too big at 14.5 mpg.

It many not be as quick (and I do miss that) but the VW scoots decent off the line and is very comfortable at speed and in the corners for an "old person" car.

I could have gone the 2.0L route with 227 Hp, a tad less fuel economy, and a 0-60 of 6.1 sec. Then there's a 3.6L V-6 that'll get you to 60 in the mid-5 second range.

 

[SniperDroid]

So the trade for de-carbonizing the engine every so often is higher fuel economy and better performance? What's the Problem?

I can't wait ti have the Hurricane in the 2500...!

 

[Travelin Ram]

From what I understand, carbon deposits have been addressed, mainly in recent engine oil specs aimed at DI applications.

After all, diesel engines have been DI forever, and nobody worries about intake valves in those.

 

[mikeru]

From what I understand, carbon deposits have been addressed, mainly in recent engine oil specs aimed at DI applications.

After all, diesel engines have been DI forever, and nobody worries about intake valves in those.

Newer oils have helped, but definitely haven't eliminated the problem. Catch cans help as well. But eventually the carbon build up will become an issue even with a catch can. The only feasible way to eliminate the problem is with the dual injection system described above.

I don't know enough about diesel engines to comment on that, but it's been something I've asked myself as well.

 

[Scottly]

Diesel is an oil...It's less likely to build up carbon on the intake valves from recirculating exhaust gasses...Soot maybe, which is different from carbon.

 

[mikeru]

Diesel is an oil...It's less likely to build up carbon on the intake valves from recirculating exhaust gasses...Soot maybe, which is different from carbon.

The carbon build up on GDI engines is from the vapors that go through the PCV valve into the intake, which is never washed away by fuel. It's not caused from recirculated exhaust gasses. Since the injectors are located inside the combustion chamber, none of the fuel ever gets to the back side of the intake valves to was them. The same would hold true with diesel engines.

With port injection, carburetion, TBI, etc... the back side of the intake valves are continuously washed clean with gas vapors. Nothing really has a chance to build up.

 

[06 Dodge]

I wonder if this new Direct Injection engine I will have >5% gas in the oil problems like was found in my wife's Toyota Direct Injection engine at 20K?

 

[BossHogg]

Newer oils have helped, but definitely haven't eliminated the problem. Catch cans help as well. But eventually the carbon build up will become an issue even with a catch can. The only feasible way to eliminate the problem is with the dual injection system described above.

I don't know enough about diesel engines to comment on that, but it's been something I've asked myself as well.

Interesting subject. I have three land maintenance machines, all diesel-powered that have many hard working hours on them, and also a RAM Cummins that also works hard. In all the years of hanging around tractor forums, equipment forums, and the RAM Cummins forums, I've never heard a concern about intake value deposits.

I did a bit of research searching for "diesel engine intake valve deposits" and found this explanation that may explain why diesel engines do not suffer from intake valve deposits.

"Gasoline Direct Injection (GDI) engines are MORE susceptible than Diesel engines to carbon deposits forming on the backs and stems of intake valves. The reason for this is that gasoline engines run with the intake system under vacuum most of the time, where Diesel engines do not. This is inclined to draw traces of oil through the valve guide where it burns on the stem and back of the hot valve. Since, with GDI, there is no wet fuel in the intake port, fuel detergents aren’t present to dissolve the build-up. Intake valve deposits haven’t, historically, been problematic for Diesel engines.

While not as hot as exhaust valves, that may be glowing red hot in operation, intakes valve faces are exposed to combustion and the valves become hot enough to carbonize oil. Synthetic oil is less inclined to burn on intake valves in both GDI and Diesel engines."

Beware of searching for this topic, most of the search engine links took me to clickbait stuff where the article ended up marketing a fuel additive which we all know won't do anything for a direct injected engine.

 

[Travelin Ram]

You guys are aware that Jeep has been using the 4 cylinder version for 6 years, right?

While there’s endless carping on Jeep forums about the advantages or disadvantages of the various engine options (imagine that LOL) I don’t recall reading of intake valve deposits.

 

[fireflymedic]

IMHO the high boost pressures will make this a bigger problem in the hurricane engine. No doubt after the warenty though

 

[Scottly]

The carbon build up on GDI engines is from the vapors that go through the PCV valve into the intake, which is never washed away by fuel. It's not caused from recirculated exhaust gasses. Since the injectors are located inside the combustion chamber, none of the fuel ever gets to the back side of the intake valves to was them. The same would hold true with diesel engines.

With port injection, carburetion, TBI, etc... the back side of the intake valves are continuously washed clean with gas vapors. Nothing really has a chance to build up.

Yup, I know all that. Allow me to restate: You commented about diesels. So, unlike the gasoline engine where unburnt fuel mixes with the oil on the cylinder walls and any burnt gases that slip by the rings and is subsequently pushed out of the crankcase cavity and into the intake, causing the deposits on the valves you mention, with a diesel the fuel is an oil and not a solvent like gasoline. Any unburnt fuel(soot) mixes with the engine oil (which is why it gets so black) and stays suspended there. The PCV system on a diesel pulls positive pressure caused by combustion gases that have leaked past the rings into the intake much like the gas engines, but the carbons remain mostly in the crankcase because they have not been thinned out by a solvent(gasoline). In addition, the soot being blown into the intake by the EGR system also doesn't pose a deposit problem because the soot is oily...It's unburnt diesel(oil) and it doesn't stick very well to the valves.

 

[mikeru]

Yup, I know all that. Allow me to restate: You commented about diesels. So, unlike the gasoline engine where unburnt fuel mixes with the oil on the cylinder walls and any burnt gases that slip by the rings and is subsequently pushed out of the crankcase cavity and into the intake, causing the deposits on the valves you mention, with a diesel the fuel is an oil and not a solvent like gasoline. Any unburnt fuel(soot) mixes with the engine oil (which is why it gets so black) and stays suspended there. The PCV system on a diesel pulls positive pressure caused by combustion gases that have leaked past the rings into the intake much like the gas engines, but the carbons remain mostly in the crankcase because they have not been thinned out by a solvent(gasoline). In addition, the soot being blown into the intake by the EGR system also doesn't pose a deposit problem because the soot is oily...It's unburnt diesel(oil) and it doesn't stick very well to the valves.

That's a great explanation, and makes perfect sense. Thanks for taking the time to post it.

 

[Dusty]

Engine decarbonization service. Gasoline direct injection engines are particularly susceptible to carbon deposits building up on the back of the intake valves and surrounding areas of the intake runners.

This is why I lease my Audi LOL.

I know of a person who had the decarbonizing process performed on their 3.5 Ecoboost at an independent shop and lost both turbos weeks later. If the decarbonizing method is using a chemical solvent injected into the intake stream, it could wash out a turbo bearing.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 100870 miles.