Is Idling Really an Issue for Gas Engines?

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ramffml

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Reignited on YT has worked in different states and made the claim that he saw different numbers in different states.

I don't believe the 5 to 10 percent holds across the board, maybe that's what one tech saw but FCA has sold many millions of these hemis now and a 5 to 10 percent would mean hundreds of thousands of failures. I just can't accept that number based on the amount of user reports on forums, it would be absolutely flooding the forums each and every day with that kind of failure rate.
 

HEMIMANN

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I have no idea which member you're talking about, and I'm not saying he's being disingenuous. But there's a huge difference between 5 and 10 percent, even at a single dealership. People can make all the claims they want, and they may even believe those claims. But without actual data I'd take that with a grain of salt.

There are real lifter/cam failures on these engines, and they appear to be happening a higher rate than what would be considered acceptable. But I have yet to see actual numbers on what that failure rate really is, and Ram doesn't appear to be forthcoming with those numbers. If someone has them I'd be very interested in seeing the real numbers.

It's a data point, not a complete data set. Missing the point the lifter and cam issue is not a typical failure rate.
 

mikeru

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It's a data point, not a complete data set. Missing the point the lifter and cam issue is not a typical failure rate.
That's not a data point, it's just one person's estimate on what he claims to see at his dealership. I find it hard to believe that the actual failure rate of all Hemi engines sold at that dealership is possibly as high as 10%. Even his low estimate of 5% is hard to believe.
 

HEMIMANN

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That's not a data point, it's just one person's estimate on what he claims to see at his dealership. I find it hard to believe that the actual failure rate of all Hemi engines sold at that dealership is possibly as high as 10%. Even his low estimate of 5% is hard to believe.

Argue with the Techs on here, then. What's the purpose of a Forum? Experiences with engines from years ago, or the engines we have now?

One tech I know of on here is @Tach_tech
 

mikeru

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Argue with the Techs on here, then. What's the purpose of a Forum? Experiences with engines from years ago, or the engines we have now?

One tech I know of on here is @Tach_tech
Fair enough, you're just repeating what he said. I'm not saying anyone is lying, just that they aren't providing any real data to support their claims. It's easy to embellish claims, especially if someone is passionate about something. You're right, forums are for discussion. But wouldn't you agree that those discussions benefit us more when actual facts are involved? Making claims that appear unrealistic become believable if supporting data are provided. It's one thing for someone to say they've seen quite a few engines come back for cam/lifter issues. It's another to claim a certain failure rate. I guess the main point I was trying to make is that there is a huge difference between 5% and 10%. And if he really knew the number he would have provided a more precise percentage.
 

Zoe Saldana

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It's a data point, not a complete data set. Missing the point the lifter and cam issue is not a typical failure rate.

All data points are not equal.

Some dude in a dealership who doesn't know:
# of vehicles
Years
Engines
causes of failure
etc

is meaningless and a waste of our time

It isn't data; it is a feeling.
 

ramffml

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I hate to argue with a guy who's actually fixing the things; but statistically, "5 to 10 percent" indicates that the data is not accurate in the slightest, you can't possibly draw any conclusions when the range is so wide, it's a meaningless metric and shows that much more research is needed to narrow down what exactly is going on.

In other words, if the data points you've seen indicates you can swing from 5 to 10, you can probably swing from 0 to 5 too (not quite as obviously it gets more and more inaccurate when you drop to 0, but you get the idea).
 

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Why are we quibbling over the 5-10% number? That's so high it seems like it'd destroy the reputation of a maker for a whole generation. I expect 99.99% trouble free cars and effortless replacements for the 0.01% with problems. Now that I think of it, Ford's DCT fiasco was pretty well documented. What were the numbers on that?

And I think 5-10 is like 2.5-5, not 0-5.
 
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