IS IT TIME 5.7 TO GET DROPPED ???

do you think CHRYSLER need to drop the 5.7 hemi

  • 5.7 hemi is ok in ram1500

    Votes: 85 73.3%
  • TIME FOR CHANGE !!!! need more power to keep up with competition

    Votes: 32 27.6%

  • Total voters
    116

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ramffml

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You mean, like this?

Close, but you're not comparing the same truck; for a start, the second one is 4x4. Anyway, take off 1 mpg or so and the difference isn't that bad or unexpected. Lets face it, the 5.7 is a thirsty pig too, and when you're towing, you're not going to get > 9 to 11 anyway regardless of engine.
 

ramffml

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RAM is not in the same league as Ford and GM economically. Ford is the fourth largest automaker worldwide and has very deep pockets. GM is next at number 5. Stellantis is distant 9, but that also includes all their many other auto divisions, not just RAM. I'm amazed RAM, with its much more limited budget, competes as well with Ford and GM as they do.

They can probably only economically offer one V8 option for the 1500 (special edition TRX excluded). Given the choices, the 5.7 makes sense. It's a good compromise of power, torque, and efficiency and it doesn't interfere with the 2500 sales. It would be great if they also offered the SRT or the 2500's 6.4, but that's not going to happen. I don't think they could justify it and they would probably lose money doing it. Besides, the marketing team figures that if someone really wants more towing capability, they'll just choose the 2500. They simply can't practically give you all the engine options that Ford or GM can. Look at Ford, their F150 option list is insane.

You can question RAM's marketing strategy, but for a relatively small truck division with limited resources, they're doing incredibly well against the big boys who have far more money to throw around. Car and Driver rates the 2022 RAM 1500 the best full-sized pickup. I can't imagine how much that ****** off Ford and GM with all the massive $$$$ they've invested, while RAM bests them on a much more limited budget.

That's an interesting theory but you have no data to back that up. Remember this is Ram. They shove the 5.7, 6.2, and 6.4 in literally everything they own. Even where it doesn't make sense; 6.4 wrangler??

The 6.4 SRT is in the charger, challenger, durango, wagoneer, and wrangler. Do you honestly think economically it's impossible to put it in the 1500? Remember this is the company that came up with the 808 hp demon when the 700 hp variant was already good enough and has no competition. Heck even the lower SRT is still competitive. Talk about economics......
 

Jimmy07

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Close, but you're not comparing the same truck; for a start, the second one is 4x4. Anyway, take off 1 mpg or so and the difference isn't that bad or unexpected. Lets face it, the 5.7 is a thirsty pig too, and when you're towing, you're not going to get > 9 to 11 anyway regardless of engine.
Whoops. Here’s a 4x4 with 5.7. Other than that, Wagoneer and grand Wagoneer are the same dimensions, aside from vehicle option weights.
1ADF3C4C-30D5-499C-99B3-15F875C80CEA.jpeg
 

HEMIMANN

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@turkeybird56 - when corporate was coming out with EPA Tier 4 Final engines, I couldn't believe all the exhaust aftertreatment crap and controls. This is mid-2000's.

I mean, gasoline engines just need a passive 3 way catalyst, O2 sensor(s), and controller. Diesels have passive oxidation catalyst, soot filter with regenerating burn-off cycle, selective catalytic reduction with urea injection, and massive controller to control this onboard chemical factory. All this crap in ADDITION to an already expensive engine with high pressure piezo electronic injection. Add to that the lower energy density of ultra low sulfur diesel fuel and the whole thing is a dicey economic proposition, at best.

And this from a former big diesel fan and professional applications engineer. This is also why I went 6.4L Hemi and live with the crappy lifter reliability. I like this engine a lot - it does everything I want and does it well.
 

HEMIMANN

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Yeah! And maybe we can rejuice the truck at the same time we're on the cellphone and without bursting into flames from fumes.
Maybe we can carry extra batteries in the towed vehicle for more range while traveling.

Remember when Boeing introduced the 787, the 1st with lithium ion battery packs on board, and they caught on fire during the test flight? That was hilarious. Who knew LiIon battery manufacture was so process sensitive? Except for everybody, yet the executives outsource to cheapo foreign outfits.

 

HAL9001

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That's an interesting theory but you have no data to back that up. Remember this is Ram. They shove the 5.7, 6.2, and 6.4 in literally everything they own. Even where it doesn't make sense; 6.4 wrangler??

The 6.4 SRT is in the charger, challenger, durango, wagoneer, and wrangler. Do you honestly think economically it's impossible to put it in the 1500? Remember this is the company that came up with the 808 hp demon when the 700 hp variant was already good enough and has no competition. Heck even the lower SRT is still competitive. Talk about economics......
I think it's economically imprudent, certainly not impossible. And again, it'll make moving up to a 2500 less appealing. Don't underestimate marketing influences on engineering choices. I worked in semiconductor manufacturing. We made high-end, mid-range, and slower-speed microprocessors all priced accordingly. They were all the same microchip. They would purposely blow internal fuses in the microcircuitry to obtain the various speeds and features. That was all marketing.

Perhaps RAM has learned a lesson about offering too many engine options and is now being more prudent with the 1500. Keep in mind that the TRX is their high-power option for the 1500 with the supercharged 702 Hp 6.2, as costly and impractical as it is. That was pure marketing for bragging rights to the fastest, badest truck. How many more uneconomical engine options can they offer?

We can speculate about this all day, but it doesn't look like the 1500 is going to get anything but the 5.7 as a V8 option, at least for now. I'm not happy about it either, I would have much preferred a 6.4 in my 1500 for towing.
 

ramffml

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I think it's economically imprudent, certainly not impossible. And again, it'll make moving up to a 2500 less appealing. Don't underestimate marketing influences on engineering choices. I worked in semiconductor manufacturing. We made high-end, mid-range, and slower-speed microprocessors all priced accordingly. They were all the same microchip. They would purposely blow internal fuses in the microcircuitry to obtain the various speeds and features. That was all marketing.

Perhaps RAM has learned a lesson about offering too many engine options and is now being more prudent with the 1500. Keep in mind that the TRX is their high-power option for the 1500 with the supercharged 702 Hp 6.2, as costly and impractical as it is. That was pure marketing for bragging rights to the fastest, badest truck. How many more uneconomical engine options can they offer?

We can speculate about this all day, but it doesn't look like the 1500 is going to get anything but the 5.7 as a V8 option, at least for now. I'm not happy about it either, I would have much preferred a 6.4 in my 1500 for towing.

There is a gaping whole in between the 5.7 and TRX. You can't talk about economics and how it wouldn't make sense and not address the crux of my argument; clearly they have no trouble offering the SRT everywhere else, the reason they don't in the 1500 is not due to economics (they made an 808 hp demon just for fun; the 700 hp variant was already enough to crush competition), or too much gas (wagoneer has it), or would tow terrible (it makes more power everywhere than 5.7 and wagoneer has best in class towing) or it wouldn't make sense (wrangler has it). It would take no money whatsoever to drop the 6.4 into the truck, the drivetrain is already used and tested in other places.

I can see that maybe they're holding off until sales start to drop and then maybe use it to prop up some sales... but anything else mentioned in this thread so far, nope, not buying it.

If we want to see it offered, we need to speak our mind. Show some demand! Because like I said, I'm seriously considering a GM 6.2 right now for my next towing rig. Literally every other half ton has a more powerful motor available, including the Titan (though that's a close one).
 

HEMIMANN

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@ramffml - I concur. I left Chevy in 2012 because all they had was the 5.3L oil pumper, which I dumped. I wanted the 6.2L, but they wouldn't put it in the half ton.
I'm guessing due to EPA CAFE regulations.
 

Dusty

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That's an interesting theory but you have no data to back that up. Remember this is Ram. They shove the 5.7, 6.2, and 6.4 in literally everything they own. Even where it doesn't make sense; 6.4 wrangler??

The 6.4 SRT is in the charger, challenger, durango, wagoneer, and wrangler. Do you honestly think economically it's impossible to put it in the 1500? Remember this is the company that came up with the 808 hp demon when the 700 hp variant was already good enough and has no competition. Heck even the lower SRT is still competitive. Talk about economics......
I think you'll find the difference is volume. I don't have a guess as to how many 6.4 motored Ram 1500s would be sold if offered, but I could see double the current total manufacture. Plus, as a 1500 variant it would require emissions certificate apart from any of the current 6.4 offerings.

That's extra development time and money. It can take a couple of years to get emissions where it meets certification, so by that time we'll all be driving electric trucks anyways. Correct?

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 062731 miles.
 

ramffml

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I think you'll find the difference is volume. I don't have a guess as to how many 6.4 motored Ram 1500s would be sold if offered, but I could see double the current total manufacture. Plus, as a 1500 variant it would require emissions certificate apart from any of the current 6.4 offerings.

That's extra development time and money. It can take a couple of years to get emissions where it meets certification, so by that time we'll all be driving electric trucks anyways. Correct?

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 062731 miles.

The 485 hp SRT 6.4 is already certified in passenger cars and now the wagoneer. It's a somewhat different engine than the 410 hp BGE in the 2500. All they have to do is drop the motor in.

It will take a minimum of 10 years, and probably closer to 20 before electric towing makes sense. Here in Canada there are already spots where you need to fill up because if you dont you won't make it to the next station down the road. And I really don't want to disconnect my trailer every time I need to recharge at a busy parking lot. But yes it appears we're headed to an electric future; I don't really mind electric, just as long as it's as fast and convenient as gas.
 

Farmer Fran

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Dude, go buy the GMC or Ford.

No one here is having a meltdown because we are a few HP down on the competition. You are still missing the point; you have to have efficiency. The SRT motor in the RAM would be terrible for towing. You would be lucky to get 6-8 pulling the full load. But I guess you would get across the finish line first. Actually no, you would be stopping for fuel too much.

And the 6.4 Truck motor would only give you more towing capacity on a truck that already does not have enough payload.
 

Dusty

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The 485 hp SRT 6.4 is already certified in passenger cars and now the wagoneer. It's a somewhat different engine than the 410 hp BGE in the 2500. All they have to do is drop the motor in.

It will take a minimum of 10 years, and probably closer to 20 before electric towing makes sense. Here in Canada there are already spots where you need to fill up because if you dont you won't make it to the next station down the road. And I really don't want to disconnect my trailer every time I need to recharge at a busy parking lot. But yes it appears we're headed to an electric future; I don't really mind electric, just as long as it's as fast and convenient as gas.
The current emissions standards are different for passenger cars and heavy duty trucks. The 6.4 would need to be certified for the light duty pickup class. Assuming that the 6.4 is used straight from the HDs, getting cert would still cost some level of development time (maybe a different camshaft?).

Then, will it work against the 9.25 rear and 8.5 front diffs? Would the prop shaft need to be stronger? Can you get enough cooling for a 6.4 on a DT platform? Will the 8HP75 be enough transmission?

While I understand the desire, I don't think it's as easy as you might think.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 062731 miles.
 

ramffml

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The current emissions standards are different for passenger cars and heavy duty trucks. The 6.4 would need to be certified for the light duty pickup class. Assuming that the 6.4 is used straight from the HDs, getting cert would still cost some level of development time (maybe a different camshaft?).

Then, will it work against the 9.25 rear and 8.5 front diffs? Would the prop shaft need to be stronger? Can you get enough cooling for a 6.4 on a DT platform? Will the 8HP75 be enough transmission?

While I understand the desire, I don't think it's as easy as you might think.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 062731 miles.

Again, we're not talking about the 2500/HD 6.4. Completely different engine with different regulations.

And again, FCA has thrown 3 to 4 different hemis into literally every car and truck and suv they can.

And again, the TRX has far more power than the 6.4 so transmission, cooling, diffs etc. It's all a complete non issue.
 

Octane

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Did they put the 5.7 in a jeep or something recently? Or was it a 707hp hellcat motor in a Dodge Journey?
 
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Sammy

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They don't just floor it, tfl truck does that on one particular test but they do long distance mpg runs, as does the other guy I mentioned.

Turbos don't like to work hard. You can't shove more air down the engine without increasing gas, and they're not efficent when they're worked. Your truck sounds like the exception, because I've seen tons of towing videos/reports.
I don’t need to work my ford like I did my rams. Not to mention have to worry about my payloads/trailer weights. In my case, ford is more fuel efficient.
 

Docwagon1776

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Both of these statements would seem to be false, seeing as the GME T6 is going into the Wagoneers next year, and in the challengers and chargers for 2024.

I'll believe it when I see it, given how many times it's been "next yeared". I'd be fine to be wrong, though, hopefully it works out for them and if they have a 525hp option with a nice flat torque curve that's an interesting option.
 

pacofortacos

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Nope, that's not how the standard works. It's all about measured performance; cooling, 0 to 60, stopping power, managing under/oversteer etc.

The zf can easily handle the trx so durability is not an issue.
The ZF in the TRX and 6.4 is NOT the same ZF in our earlier 4th gen trucks - it has a much higher torque capacity rating. The one in the 4th gens torque rating wasn't really that high - 516 ft.lb vs. 1000 ft.lb for the new 6.4 ZF 8HP75.

What you are thinking of is the tow rating standard that is used for max towing.
What you list above is identical on both 3.21 and 3.92 except for a minor measured performance change - very minor with 8 speed in play. But there is a significant change in load on the transmission and rear gear between the 2 ratios.
 

GTyankee

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The smart people are going around buying good engine blocks
It does not matter which brand, if the block is magna fluxed & proves to be good. Depending on its popularity, it is either going into a building or an open field.
The ones that do not pass being magna fluxed are being returned to the seller

I know one person that went around buying 1930 - 1940s Ford hoods
He also buys the grilles for the same years
Some may call him a hoarder, but i think he was & is making a fantastic investment.

I know about another guy that has a sizeable field of Pre 1980s Dodge muscle cars, i have seen the field, it is just off the highway & the highway is well above the field
You can't buy just one or two, he wants to sell the whole field full
 

HAL9001

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There is a gaping whole in between the 5.7 and TRX. You can't talk about economics and how it wouldn't make sense and not address the crux of my argument; clearly they have no trouble offering the SRT everywhere else, the reason they don't in the 1500 is not due to economics (they made an 808 hp demon just for fun; the 700 hp variant was already enough to crush competition), or too much gas (wagoneer has it), or would tow terrible (it makes more power everywhere than 5.7 and wagoneer has best in class towing) or it wouldn't make sense (wrangler has it). It would take no money whatsoever to drop the 6.4 into the truck, the drivetrain is already used and tested in other places.

I can see that maybe they're holding off until sales start to drop and then maybe use it to prop up some sales... but anything else mentioned in this thread so far, nope, not buying it.

If we want to see it offered, we need to speak our mind. Show some demand! Because like I said, I'm seriously considering a GM 6.2 right now for my next towing rig. Literally every other half ton has a more powerful motor available, including the Titan (though that's a close one).
The reason they don't offer it is marketing and economics. I'm sorry you don't see that. It's not simply a matter of dropping another engine in, otherwise they would do it when obviously they're not.

Just buy the Ford or Chevy if the 5.7 doesn't meet your requirements. It's great to have choices.
 
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