Kicker key and alpine system...

[Mleads310]

Additionally I have the amp pro settings in the app, minimum volume set to max.... Maybe this is is also having a negative effect? I emailed PAC about optimal settings and waiting for a response.

 

[Graygoose]

It could, call the tech line, M-F 8am - 5pm CT, 1-800-256-0808 and a phone etch can walk you through and troubleshoot.

Yes the rag trip helped my highs even more so.

 

[Mleads310]

Ok called both kicker and PAC the other day. PAC stated that I should drop the volts from 5 to 4 and that no other dips or settings on the amppro would have any effect on the gain/output etc. I did that and yielded slightly (a bit clearer) results.
So then I called kicker and they confirmed all my dips and setting were correct. That I could try toggling between compression on and off. With compression on I limit sooner. But still with it off, it limits sooner than it should in my opinion.

Here's the weird thing and I mean weird. I discovered that when I set the gains (bi amp mode) for my dash (ch1/2) to just below where it limits and then proceed to set the gain for my doors (ch3/4).....the limit on the dash speakers starts to blink at a certain point depending on how I have the gain set on my doors???? What the hell is going on? So my gain limits on ch 1/2 are effected by my gain setting of 3/4? The higher my gain settings on one set of channels, limits the gain limits on the other? I have to wait to call kicker tomorrow and confirm that this is normal or not? I have a feeling that this amp just isn't powerful enough to do what I need it to do and that some how, as crazy as it seems , max gains from all channels are dependant on the gain setting from others, like it's borrowing power from the others somehow.


I'm about done with this kicker key experiment.

 

[Graygoose]

Mine doesn't do it.
See what the techs say, but if you run auto tune, then adjust gains, you will need to retune.

 

[Mleads310]

So your saying after I run auto tune, set gains,.....then re run the auto tune with the gains already set in place?

I will try that when I get home, but I have a feeling I have a defective key amp. I can't understand how gains from one side effect gains from the other.

 

[Mleads310]

So your saying after I run auto tune, set gains,.....then re run the auto tune with the gains already set in place?

I will try that when I get home, but I have a feeling I have a defective key amp. I can't understand how gains from one side effect gains from the other.

 

[Graygoose]

set gains, then run auto tune/EQ. If you adjust gains after the auto tune, you will need to retune.


But no, they shouldn't matter by amp 1 or amp 2

 

[Mleads310]

So your saying set the gains before running auto EQ? Because the manual states the opposite, just want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding.

Okay just got off the phone with kicker and they stated that yes they believe it's a defective unit. The only way the gains or the limiters would be affecting one another would be if it's being robbed of power IE: bad or improper power feed.

Called crutchfield and the kicker key is on back order but will send one out as soon as it stocks.

 

[Mleads310]

Graygoose still a bit confused as to you stating that I should set gains before running auto tune, but here's an update.

Received the replacement amp yesterday and ran the auto tune per the manual/kicker youtube videos. Gains zero, pink noise, HU volume 3/4 (31). I did all my dips (including HPF) prior to the tune also even tho it doesn't specifically state to do so in the manual.
After the auto tune, I ran different kinds of music to set the gains. NOTE: I did try the pink noise to set the gains, but doing this never got the amp limited out. The problem would then be if I set the gains with pink noise which is almost to max, when I switch to music my gains were way off and also limiting out immediately. So I set the gains to various songs I like to hear.

Results are in and this thing is pretty good. My gains are set about a little more than 1/2 way. I purposely tried to limit it out and I barely heard any distortion at that mark. As compared to the defective amp where gains were limiting early and where gain settings from one channel effected gains for the other.

Do these speakers ask for more power than what the kicker key provides, definitely! But I must say that now I have the replacement amp and it's running as it should, I am much happier with the overall volume and gain settings than I was prior. Again it's not perfect and maybe one day in the near future I'll dive into the full dsp install, but for now it's very very good. Side note, I moved the amp location from under the center console area to the upper glove box. This made tuning etc much easier to access.

Now the only thing left I have to improve a bit is my sub situation. I have a p2d4 10" amplified with a sound ordinance m350. It was originally in a cheap attend box, but I purchased a netaudio tall passenger side box (12" now with an adapter for my 10") from a fellow member (thanks for the quick shipping!!!). I put the sub in this box and tho is sounds sligthy better(deeper, more rounded) it just doesn't sound right. I'm not sure if it's the amp (gains are maxed out, not good?) or if it's the sub (not enough/too much enclosed volume?) or if it's a combination of both. I know the netaudio box (tall passenger 12" box with 1 cu ft) are well regarded so Im excluding this as the issue.

Thanks again for everyone's help.

 

[regal81455]

Good to hear you got your KEY sorted out.

That subwoofer wants .6cf IIRC for a sealed box. I would say the box is too big for that sub + I wouldn't think your gains should be maxed. Did you set the gains with an o-scope or voltmeter?

 

[regal81455]

After review, IMHO that amp is really starving that sub. You want something that is atleast around 300-400w RMS w/ peak power around 600-700w. Based on the lit for that amp it puts out 300+/- RMS which is fine but the peak is only 350w (truthfully kinda strange). That sub indicates 300RMS/600PEAK and knowing RF those numbers are probably conservative. That may explain why you feel the gain needs maxed as you have no headroom with that amp.

Personally if it was me I'd find a new sub and complimentary amp for the new box OR at the least a sub that works with the box and the amp you have.

If you're bent on using the RF sub you could, I suppose, fill the enclosure with an epoxy (???) perhaps to remove the additional cf you don't need but I wouldn't really think this is the best choice.

 

[Graygoose]

Great feedback, appreciate it, and hate to see it was an amp issue, surely why we were confused. LOL
Apologies on that!

Later on, if you want to add more power, you can still use the KEY as a preamp and add a 75x4 amp, etc.

 

[Mleads310]

I agree I think it's a combination of the size of enclosure and the amp power. I have no problem upgrading one or both to get solid SQ performance. The previous owner had a JL 12W6v3 in there and said it sounded pretty good.

I guess I should start by looking for an amp that can handle a JL 12W6v3. It'll allow me to see if my RF P2D4 isn't getting sufficient power and if it's not, I can always purchase the JL 12W6v3 and I'll be set.

I was going to try a few different subs, but I'm finding it difficult to locate a reputable audio shop near me that's willing to do this.

Any suggestions on an amp that would match the JL 12W6v3 perfectly? The previous owner was using an xd 600/1. Is there something better/less expensive? Etc.

 

[Mleads310]

Graygoose, thanks for that info. The key is definitely enough power for my setup.......for now lol. As I know myself and by mid summer I'll be more and more researching going active with dsp and better components.....maybe the JL vxi line etc.

 

[regal81455]

This is going to sound blasphemous since Im a huge JL fan but if I was you Id consider either an AudioFrog GB12 or an Alpine X-W12. I almost bought that box off the same member sometime back and these were the two I was eyein' for it. Once you know for sure which sub then Id choose the amp.

 

[Mleads310]

I would almost consider any speaker that gives me a good sound quality regardless of name brand. I have had a similar earlier JL sub version years ago and it performed flawlessly ,but that was before I had any real knowledge of any other companies.
if there were any other suggestions you're ever going to particular speakers I would definitely like to hear them. Of course the less expensive the better and The less power I'm pushing the better for my electrical system.

What did you have in mind? And have you had any first-hand experience with listening to either one of these speakers perform in this box?

 

[Mleads310]

Regal, you got me eyeing a gb12d4 on another site for $375...... I may just pull the trigger for that price.

 

[regal81455]

LOL - yeah I think you'd be happy with that sub. It should be comparable to the JL. If you go that route then I'll be happy to help pic an appropriate amp for it.

 

[regal81455]

I would suggest however that you double check all the dimensions of the box. Depth I don't think is a problem but the AF does have a pretty substantial basket. Might even consider calling NetAudio next week and see if they've ever used one in that box to confirm fitment.

 

[Mleads310]

Funny I was just researching the numbers to make sure it'll fit and it does.

 

[Mleads310]

Kenwood KAC-9106D for $300? Any thoughts on this to pair with the gb12. I kinda like that it has numbered positions for adjusting the gain, lpf etc. Since I don't have an o-scope.