Lease the Battery and own Half the Truck/Car?

[goggles]

I thought this subject was worthy of its own thread: Instead of letting the market handle EV's, enviro whack jobs in governments decide its best to force these things to market, they did it with wind turbines and solar panels, hows that working out keeping the grid up, it's been a colossal fail, more huge fails to follow.

Without any real thought, the EV push is on, auto makers are rushing to push their version EV's, nothing is really different, they basically slap together the same motors, batteries and wheels, there is nothing revolutionary in these things, just in the minds of eviro whack jobs, you cant really fault OEM's, its government stupidity that started this. Battery degradation problem is huge, don't go by makers claims, so now you will be given the option to lease the battery, when it degrades to the point of being unusable, the leasing company replaces the battery, they claim the cost will be $80-$150 per month, then add tax, a whole new set of problems will be opened with battery leases, stop paying battery lease, does your truck/car get repossessed or just the battery??.

 

[gofishn]

Too Much Coffee?

Been There, done that.

 

[Narg]

EV thought has been in the works since cars have been a thing. EV cars were made before Deisel cars were (research it, you'll see.) So to think EVs are new, they are anything but new. The EV push is not by the government or the OEM car/truck makers. The push is by the market. EV cars and trucks have sold out of almost every model for years. Usually you are on a wait list for the best ones. Telsa has only hit the standing inventory model for the past couple of years. Yet, they still sell every one of them they make. If you made cars/trucks, and you had a sizable client base that wanted something, you'd build it. And, that is exactly what they are doing. Nothing forced. And, stop with the anxiety, ICE will not go away.

Also, to the topic point. Many people lease the whole car. Battery lease should be an option. I'm not a fan, but why not fill the market want for some buyers?

 

[Travelin Ram]

It’s all a matter of perspective. People do lease complete vehicles (I’m not one of them). Internal combustion vehicles don’t come with lifetime fuel; every week you’re at the fuel pump moving money from your pocket to someone else’s.

For me, I’ll likely get an EV for running around local in a year or two while keeping my truck for the road trips.

With an EV, I can (and will) have an off-grid solar array to charge my vehicle AND power the house when the grid is down. That tech is available and affordable today. On the other hand, we can’t afford a private oil well and refinery.

 

[GTyankee]

California is allowing the Electric Companies to reverse promises made 10 or 20 years ago

California Solar Customers in the recent past, were told to go Solar & that the Electric companies would pay for electricity generated by Solar Panels, that was not used by those Solar customers,
There was also money coming in by the Government, in the way of Solar Credits.
It was a good deal for everyone.

Now the Electric Companies are charging those Solar Customers a fee for being connected to the Electric company.
That fee is around $1,600 a year.

Now the Government is pulling out of the deal & will not be giving the Solar Customers the Solar Credits, or the Credits will be greatly reduced.
AND
Now the government, is going to charge EV vehicles the same fee to use the HOV Lanes, as a vehicle that has two or more persons in the vehicle, the whole idea originally was to award special privileges to those vehicle owners that did not have combustion engines.

So basically, Solar customers in California were promised several things & now those incentives are being pulled.

Also those home buyers with Solar Panels, are finding that there are not many people that want a home that that has Solar Power, and more people won't buy a home that has a Solar Lien on that property.

 

[Justthebutler]

In the end, they will get you no matter what. You buy the car, lease the battery, and still have to pay for charging your battery every time.

They are trying to make it so they break even; with that pricing it would cost the same per month as gas for a V8.

The big question is, how will the production and destruction of all of these batteries and battery cells affect their
(air quotes) "Global Warming" Agenda.

Li-on and Li-po batteries can only be used to a point and then they are junk.

 

[haleme]

For me, I’ll likely get an EV for running around local in a year or two while keeping my truck for the road trips.

With an EV, I can (and will) have an off-grid solar array to charge my vehicle AND power the house when the grid is down. That tech is available and affordable today. On the other hand, we can’t afford a private oil well and refinery.

This is exactly what we did, minus the solar setup. 2500 is the long haul cruiser and the Mini Countryman hybrid is the around town car.

Williamsburg has 2 public EV charging stations with a total of 5 bays; one bay is broken, so I feel like 20 of us are constantly fighting for the remaining four bays with each other and the tourists. In my perspective, this makes a full electric sorta impractical.

 

[Tominator223]

Ev’s are Not fair market vehicles. Only certain countries have the materials to build em. The worlds Co2 went up from.03% to .04% percent over the past few decades . At .02% plants start dying! More Co2 means bigger crops & more plant growth. So all the carbon foot print stuff BS. It’s all about the $$$ . We have at least a 100 yrs to find better options. So no rush. I’ve yet to see that rising sea. Brondo it what plants crave. lol.

 

[GTyankee]

The real thing is:

Now we see & hear smog emissions & noise making engines that are making pollution.

In a world of EVs, you will not see & hear the pollution makers
It is still there, but out of site

You may never see where the pollution is taking place, because your EV will not be able to drive that far, it will be like being on a leash.

There will always be oil, coal, wood or nuclear generating plants

Some of you will recall when a large portion of Canada & the Northern States of the USA & eastern Europe, had no Sun for several weeks, due to a very large Forest Fire & there was no winds during that same period of time.

Places like London England, we were told in school about the London Fog. The truth is, it was not Fog, it was smog from all the wood fires in peoples homes, it just hangs in the air, there is no Solar Power or Wind Generation.

Back in the 50s ,60s , & 70s Los Angeles & Riverside Counties, the smog was so bad that the sky was brownish grey & it just hung over those valleys.

In other words, we can't count on always having enough sunshine to get our power from the Sun

China has all of the factories that make the products needed to convert Wind & Solar Power, we have very few such factories.
The same goes for Lithium battery powered cars, China has that technology, China & the Congo are have working Lithium Mines.

We have loads of Lithium in the Imperial Valley of California, but it will be years before they will be able to mine it in any quantity

 

[Yardbird]

Any materials in Ca will never be mined. Ca will barely let the remaining farmers they haven't starved out exist.

 

[runamuck]

someone said the ev market is demand driven but I think the only reason production sells out is that production is low. many folks in the know are happy to point out that ev sales are only about 3% world wide. my view is that if one is good for you then get one but if an ev does not fit my needs/wants, then dont force one on me.

 

[crash68]

Back in the 50s ,60s , & 70s Los Angeles & Riverside Counties, the smog was so bad that the sky was brownish grey & it just hung over those valleys.

The air pollution problem has been going on a lot further back..

The Los Angeles Basin has a long, dark relationship with smog. In 1542, explorer Juan Rodriguez Cabrillo christened San Pedro Bay “La Bahia de los Fumos” — the Bay of Smokes — because of the persistent, ground-hugging smoke from fires set by members of the Gabrielino-Tongva tribe as they hunted game on the hillsides.

 

[NCRaineman]

The average car on American roads is 12.5 years old. This number creeps a little higher each year because the working classes are slowly being priced out of car ownership. The average EV battery only lasts ten years.

Doesnt matter which way you slice it, EVs won't work for the majority of drivers in the US. The govt is intent on pushing them through ever increasing CAFE regs despite the car buying public not wanting them and the charging infrastructure to support them not being present. An EV sits twice as long on dealer lots as a gas vehicle. What this is setting up is another 2008 scenario where the automakers have to be bailed out because they've sunk billions of dollars into developing cars nobody wants to buy.

 

[runamuck]

the high cost of new cars/trucks is one reason but also, the new generation of potential buyers are not very driven to buy homes, have families, or do a lot of the things prior generations did. they are happy to rent a place to live, lease a car, live together without kids, and uber for transportation and doordash for food. they have grown up with their parents just buying them everything they ask for and are slow to learn the value of a dollar. many dont seem motivated to own a stake in anything.

 

[turkeybird56]

the high cost of new cars/trucks is one reason but also, the new generation of potential buyers are not very driven to buy homes, have families, or do a lot of the things prior generations did. they are happy to rent a place to live, lease a car, live together without kids, and uber for transportation and doordash for food. they have grown up with their parents just buying them everything they ask for and are slow to learn the value of a dollar. many dont seem motivated to own a stake in anything.

@Ranamuck: are we showing our age? I was taught grow up, work, home, family, kids gone, sit back and enjoy the Golden Age of Retirement. yeah, seems the kids are doing none of those things are are making NO PLANS on how to survive come a certain point, ALL EXPECTING the Govt to finance them in their Golden Years, IMHO.

 

[Redfisher1974]

every generation says the same about the next generation… we are all weak compared to the greatest generation.

 

[runamuck]

@Ranamuck: are we showing our age? I was taught grow up, work, home, family, kids gone, sit back and enjoy the Golden Age of Retirement. yeah, seems the kids are doing none of those things are are making NO PLANS on how to survive come a certain point, ALL EXPECTING the Govt to finance them in their Golden Years, IMHO.

I guess I do show my age a lot..I am in the the crotchety stage of life. cant help it.

 

[Casper]

I thought this subject was worthy of its own thread: Instead of letting the market handle EV's, enviro whack jobs in governments decide its best to force these things to market, they did it with wind turbines and solar panels, hows that working out keeping the grid up, it's been a colossal fail, more huge fails to follow.

Without any real thought, the EV push is on, auto makers are rushing to push their version EV's, nothing is really different, they basically slap together the same motors, batteries and wheels, there is nothing revolutionary in these things, just in the minds of eviro whack jobs, you cant really fault OEM's, its government stupidity that started this. Battery degradation problem is huge, don't go by makers claims, so now you will be given the option to lease the battery, when it degrades to the point of being unusable, the leasing company replaces the battery, they claim the cost will be $80-$150 per month, then add tax, a whole new set of problems will be opened with battery leases, stop paying battery lease, does your truck/car get repossessed or just the battery??.

The whole greenie push is imbecility: the power grid can't handle the increased demand to charge these POS's. CA and TX have both had brown outs during which they told EV owners not to charge in the evening. Duh! Build the power supply and transfer system first, then if you must, push EVs. EV tractor trailers are a complete failure btw, and boats wont be any better.

 

[ramffml]

the high cost of new cars/trucks is one reason but also, the new generation of potential buyers are not very driven to buy homes, have families, or do a lot of the things prior generations did. they are happy to rent a place to live, lease a car, live together without kids, and uber for transportation and doordash for food. they have grown up with their parents just buying them everything they ask for and are slow to learn the value of a dollar. many dont seem motivated to own a stake in anything.

This is a very simplistic and inaccurate view on life for the most part. No doubt there are a ton of lazy kids and 20 somethings. But average house pricing compared to average wage has gotten completely out of whack, so much so that my nephew is in talks with 4 other young guys to try and pool enough resources to buy a home. That's the only way they can get ahead. 4 wage earners, whereas my parents generation did it on one income.

Now car prices are going the same way.

We can blame lazy kids, or we can try and fix our economy. Lets not take the easy way and just say the younger kids are for some odd reason more incapable of hard work than the previous.

 

[runamuck]

The whole greenie push is imbecility: the power grid can't handle the increased demand to charge these POS's. CA and TX have both had brown outs during which they told EV owners not to charge in the evening. Duh! Build the power supply and transfer system first, then if you must, push EVs. EV tractor trailers are a complete failure btw, and boats wont be any better.

I dont think we have ever been told here in Texas to not charge ev's (probably arent enough here to matter) but have had a few general notices that consumption is expected to high so please conserve where you can. here we have ERCOT and you can go their website anytime and see the exact amount of demand and available supply and the amount coming from each source such as wind/solar/hydro/nuclear and so on. even a while back when the temps here were 105-108 every day, we had plenty of margin. during the big freeze a cpl. years ago we did lose power in my neighborhood for 45 hrs. but many folks around the DFW area never lost power at all. I think ERCOT did some soul searching after that and rolled a few heads.