Lifter Failure

[Burla]

10w30 is not thicker then 5w30 in Redline oil, they use different base oils. It isn't close, 5w30 is two points higher on hths. My truck notices a difference, it likes 5w30 better, I don't know if I even want to run the 10w30 for my interval.

People should read this thread and other and decide if they want to move up in weight. FCA went up in weight on the eco diesels, what does that tell you? They didn't go up in weight on the 5.7 hemi because they can't, but the owner of the vehicle can do whatever they want.

 

[Alan Summers]

$3600 was the quote from the dealer I bought my truck from. Cam/lifter replacement. Took them about 2 days.

View attachment 133254

Lifter fail here as well, took the cam with it...pics attached.

Lifter and cam replacement can be done at home with knowledge and time, but the dealer or a repair shop will quote you $4000 +/- for the job. Was your $3600 price tag for all lifters or just the damaged one?

 

[Hemi395]

Lifter fail here as well, took the cam with it...pics attached.

Lifter and cam replacement can be done at home with knowledge and time, but the dealer or a repair shop will quote you $4000 +/- for the job. Was your $3600 price tag for all lifters or just the damaged one?

View attachment 133453

View attachment 133454

View attachment 133455

Great pictures there! What oil were you using when the lifter/cam failed?

 

[chrisbh17]

I wonder why they "can't" switch the 5.7 to 30 weight. Because the public might realize MDS works just fine even with 30 weight?

Or is it that extra 0.005 mpg? I'll stick with 5-30 even with my maxcare lifetime, in fact I'm going to ask the dealer if they will use it for me, since I'll be "towing" so much.

10w30 is not thicker then 5w30 in Redline oil, they use different base oils. It isn't close, 5w30 is two points higher on hths. My truck notices a difference, it likes 5w30 better, I don't know if I even want to run the 10w30 for my interval.

People should read this thread and other and decide if they want to move up in weight. FCA went up in weight on the eco diesels, what does that tell you? They didn't go up in weight on the 5.7 hemi because they can't, but the owner of the vehicle can do whatever they want.

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[Ramnewbie]

This is just my non mechanical engineer theory. The cam and crank bearings are plain bearings with a rotating mass lubricated however the lifters are two rotating masses, the cam and the rollers on the lifters. I'm thinking the 20wt either doesn't have enough cousioning effect or doesn't have enough fluid friction to keep the the rollers rolling.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[Big Boi]

Is RedLine oil a fan boy thing or the truth?

After the cam what weight do you recommend? South Florida daily driver

https://www.redlineoil.com

 

[Burla]

I wonder why they "can't" switch the 5.7 to 30 weight. Because the public might realize MDS works just fine even with 30 weight?

Because the gov't can shut them down for not meeting CAFE standards. No manu will meet CAFE, so they have to show the gov't they have done all they can to nt get shut down. Thin oil, mds systems, vvt, 8 and ten speed transmissions, 3.21 gearing, you name it and it was all done to satisfy the gov't not the consumer. I doubt anyone would choose these types of trucks if they could choose a truck made w/o all of this garbage.

Already Ram stopped making regular cab 1500's, this is the first thing to go with CAFE. I wonder if your kids will even be able to buy pick up trucks. Anyone want to vote for another Obama? Soon even Prius's will be a crime, they will have us all in Nissan Leafs eating **** sandwiches for the good of the planet.

 

[RysRam]

​

This is just my non mechanical engineer theory. The cam and crank bearings are plain bearings with a rotating mass lubricated however the lifters are two rotating masses, the cam and the rollers on the lifters. I'm thinking the 20wt either doesn't have enough cousioning effect or doesn't have enough fluid friction to keep the the rollers rolling.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Based on the pictures people have posted of the lifters and cams that have failed.....it's my opinion that the lifters are leaving the cam lobe at the peak of the ramp and smashing back down on the nose of the cam lobe. This in turn causes the needle bearings to fail on the lifter which causes the lifter to spall the ever loving **** out of the cam lobe. The spalling then expedites roller failure and the lifter grinds itself into the cam.....occasionally turning the lifter sideways in the lifter bore.....these would be the trucks that run like a bag of smashed assholes vs the ones that just throw codes and become gutless.

The question for me is what is causing the lifter to leave the cam lobe. I expect that it's slack in the lifter-pushrod-rocker assembly. But what is causing the slack? Garbage in the lifter that's not allowing it to return to its full non-collapsed position during non-MDS operation? A flaw in the lifter design itself? **** OEM valve springs? Is something bending the pushrods? A bent pushrod would cause slack and result in poor oiling at the cam. I'm mindful that the valve train in these engines (MDS hemi) must weigh a figurative ton. My truck has a quiet valvetrain but I'm preparing myself mentally lol.

 

[Ramnewbie]

Is RedLine oil a fan boy thing or the truth?

After the cam what weight do you recommend? South Florida daily driver

https://www.redlineoil.com

If likeing a quiet engine is a fan boy thing I'll take it. It's more about listening to the experiences of others and testimonials. Then if you really want to get into the weeds start checking the formulas.

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[NCRaineman]

Already Ram stopped making regular cab 1500's, this is the first thing to go with CAFE...

Cafe has been around for a number of years now, and that has nothing to do with regular cab trucks going out of production.

They're stopping with the regular cab trucks for the same reason they started with the 4-door trucks... CONSUMER DEMAND. As much as the government tries to influence the auto market consumer demand remains the biggest factor. Why is the Prius a big seller? Because gas is still over $3/gal in some parts of the country. Look at Ford, they're discontinuing all of their cars but Mustang. The only things they're going to sell are trucks and SUVs. I can assure you that's not a CAFE move.

MDS, VVT, 6-8-10 speed transmissions, turbocharging, etc. are all being done in response to consumers demanding ever more powerful vehicles that are also ever more efficient. Most people don't worry about how durable these things are going to be, because the average American gets a new car every 3 years anyways.

 

[crackerjack1957]

Cafe has been around for a number of years now, and that has nothing to do with regular cab trucks going out of production.

Most people don't worry about how durable these things are going to be, because the average American gets a new car every 3 years anyways.

Guess I'm not average............lol

 

[huntergreen]

Is RedLine oil a fan boy thing or the truth?

After the cam what weight do you recommend? South Florida daily driver

https://www.redlineoil.com

.

I don't believe RL is a Gameboy thing at all. You can easily run 5/30 Florida. Might also want to use a synthetic oil filter.

 

[chrisp2493]

It’s not always an MDS lifter that fails so you can throw that theory right out the window. The last engine I tore down that had a lifter failure was the solid lifter in the non-mds cylinder. It seems it’s more of a problem from having a soft cam lobe or the needle bearings just going out. If it was the MDs system causing issues you’d see it a lot more in the 3rd gens and the early cars, which you typically don’t. Their issue is the valve seats dropping and destroying stuff


I Bleed Ram Trucks

 

[Hemi395]

Yeah I'd rather have a lifter go bad than a valve seat dropping...

 

[chrisp2493]

Yeah I'd rather have a lifter go bad than a valve seat dropping...

Yeah because that’s a new head and piston maybe more


I Bleed Ram Trucks

 

[Burla]

Cafe has been around for a number of years now, and that has nothing to do with regular cab trucks going out of production.

They're stopping with the regular cab trucks for the same reason they started with the 4-door trucks... CONSUMER DEMAND. As much as the government tries to influence the auto market consumer demand remains the biggest factor. Why is the Prius a big seller? Because gas is still over $3/gal in some parts of the country. Look at Ford, they're discontinuing all of their cars but Mustang. The only things they're going to sell are trucks and SUVs. I can assure you that's not a CAFE move.

MDS, VVT, 6-8-10 speed transmissions, turbocharging, etc. are all being done in response to consumers demanding ever more powerful vehicles that are also ever more efficient. Most people don't worry about how durable these things are going to be, because the average American gets a new car every 3 years anyways.

No this is wrong, CAFE has been around for years but it keeps growing in it's demand for vehicle footprint versus gas mileage. Read here. There is a large demand for reg cab pick ups commercially, there always will be, they just wont be around unless the president reverses the demand of CAFE standards. Less demand then larger pick ups, but a demand that will always be there, and has been a steady source of sales for all manu's.

 

[Fitz-0518]

​

Based on the pictures people have posted of the lifters and cams that have failed.....it's my opinion that the lifters are leaving the cam lobe at the peak of the ramp and smashing back down on the nose of the cam lobe. This in turn causes the needle bearings to fail on the lifter which causes the lifter to spall the ever loving **** out of the cam lobe. The spalling then expedites roller failure and the lifter grinds itself into the cam.....occasionally turning the lifter sideways in the lifter bore.....these would be the trucks that run like a bag of smashed assholes vs the ones that just throw codes and become gutless.

The question for me is what is causing the lifter to leave the cam lobe. I expect that it's slack in the lifter-pushrod-rocker assembly. But what is causing the slack? Garbage in the lifter that's not allowing it to return to its full non-collapsed position during non-MDS operation? A flaw in the lifter design itself? **** OEM valve springs? Is something bending the pushrods? A bent pushrod would cause slack and result in poor oiling at the cam. I'm mindful that the valve train in these engines (MDS hemi) must weigh a figurative ton. My truck has a quiet valvetrain but I'm preparing myself mentally lol.

Great post. Clearly more knowledgeable than I. "Cause and effect" question. Could it be that the valve train vendor or vendors are not producing cams, rollers and lifters using the right steel or hardening process, grinding and finishing method. Or, valve train parts are of good quality, but combination of MDS, oil injector and oil pump psi will eventually be found to be the problem.

 

[Ramnewbie]

No this is wrong, CAFE has been around for years but it keeps growing in it's demand for vehicle footprint versus gas mileage. Read here. There is a large demand for reg cab pick ups commercially, there always will be, they just wont be around unless the president reverses the demand of CAFE standards. Less demand then larger pick ups, but a demand that will always be there, and has been a steady source of sales for all manu's.

Enlighten me, what does regular cab Vs QC vs cc have to due with cafe standards?

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[Burla]

First, understand that the newest set of fuel economy regulations — set to have a major effect in 2017 — penalize truck manufacturers for selling short wheelbase versions of full-size trucks. The reason? The newest regulations are based on a vehicle's "footprint," which is calculated as the square footage between all four wheels.


So FCA ended reg cabs the exact date as in this article from 2013? 2017 was the last year of forgiving the reg cab footprint, the same exact year Ram stopped making reg cab? Coincidence?

Read the link newbie, you know the one I titled read here

 

[Burla]

From link this spells out the problem, the gov't allows crew cabs to get 10mpg less then the reg cab, lol. The gov't tanked reg cabs period.

For example, a Toyota Tacoma Regular Cab with a footprint of 46.4 square feet must achieve 32.8 mpg in 2017, and 45.4 mpg by 2025. A Tacoma Double Cab with a 6-foot box, on the other hand, needs to achieve just 26.4 mpg in 2017 and 35.5 mpg by 2025.

Just trying to spread some knowledge, these are facts.