Lifter Replacement.

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dmillar74

dmillar74

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Very interesting analysis of what this man believes is the problem with these Hemi’s. Makes perfect sense to me.




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gofishn

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not really.
That is the purpose of the oil pump, to lift that oil and move it around to all parts of the engine that do actually sit in the oil itself.

Too Simplistic an explanation.

I have heard of zero failures after MDS Delete and the aftermarket Lifters installed.
If it were and blocked oil from lifting up to the lifters and cam shaft, as the crank turns inside the oil galley issue,
then even after an MDS Delete and the installation of aftermarket lifters, they would still fail and we would have heard about it, by now.

Keep in mind, there are many 3gen Hemi;s that do have fail, damn near exclusively the MDS ones with the MDS lifters.
 

quickster2

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My truck gets PUP 0W40 and Wix XP every 5K whether it is needed or not. Most of the time the truck gets used its for towing. Just coming up on 50K total. This keeps a fresh additive package in the engine for the type of driving I do.
 

RVGuy

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not really.
That is the purpose of the oil pump, to lift that oil and move it around to all parts of the engine that do actually sit in the oil itself.

Too Simplistic an explanation.

I have heard of zero failures after MDS Delete and the aftermarket Lifters installed.
If it were and blocked oil from lifting up to the lifters and cam shaft, as the crank turns inside the oil galley issue,
then even after an MDS Delete and the installation of aftermarket lifters, they would still fail and we would have heard about it, by now.

Keep in mind, there are many 3gen Hemi;s that do have fail, damn near exclusively the MDS ones with the MDS lifters.

There's another member on here that had the failure, rebuilt the engine with an aftermarket cam and lifters to delete MDS and then had the same failure a year later.
The failure happens to the 5.7 in the 2500/3500 engines which don't have MDS, it also happens to the manual transmission 5.7 that doesn't have MDS, and it happens to non-mds lifters as often as MDS lifters.
The problem isn't MDS, I'm not saying that the guy in the video is right (although I've kind of suspected it had to do with long idle times and low rpm driving for quite some time). You also need to look at the fact that police duty 5.7s were especially prone to this issue, they spend most of their time idling and then going WOT which are two situations where MDS doesn't even activate. If it were due to the MDS you'd think they'd have less problems since they're almost never in it.

You saying you've had no problems since you deleted MDS is about as good evidence as me saying I've had no problems with MDS but driving at higher RPM with no idling, and I'm at 169,000 miles.
 

gofishn

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My truck is 99% 77mph. Hardly every idles.
I had a failed lifter/chewed cam shaft.
It;s lack of OIl peneitration throughout the engine.Why, I do nto know but I hghly doubt that alck of ambient oil splashed around form teh crankcase cycling through the oil pan is the cause.

But, that;s the wonderful thing about each of us having a brain, we can think what we like, until it is proven, then some think what the like, regardless.
 

crazy jerry

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at work we have i believe its a 2016 6.4 with 4100 idle hrs and 50k miles. its ruuning fine. maybe it will blow up tomorow but its doing well as of today. running gear is holding up great also. i think its still on original syeering stabilizer. newer rams holding up very well for us
 

vdemarco

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at work we have i believe its a 2016 6.4 with 4100 idle hrs and 50k miles. its ruuning fine. maybe it will blow up tomorow but its doing well as of today. running gear is holding up great also. i think its still on original syeering stabilizer. newer rams holding up very well for us
fca fixed the issue in 2016 as far as i can tell, so since you have a 2016 you should be good to go.
 

RedneckHippy

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Not only that, there is a butt load of these motors out there and most live a good long life even when abused. These forums are a great place for solid information on how to maintain, modify and build these trucks. But it is also like a support group for truck based hypochondriacs. Enjoy the truck, do your proper maintenance and don’t drive yourself crazy worrying about something that hasn’t happened or very will might not happen to you at all.
 

Mule19

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Record a cold start for us. These guys are amazing, and ya ever know. Use your phone then use the file upload utility.

Many pushrod, hydraulic lifter engines chatter if they sit for a couple days like at the dealer.

Yours with daily noise - gotta hear it to really help further.

Many find there engine to quiet down with a different oil, PUP is first class synthetic that us readily available, and off the shelf in many locales. Redline has quieted more 5.7Ls here than any other (a poll was used)

Use a larger then oe filter. Do a quick search here on filters and pick one that is supported by members, I use Royal Purple 20-820, touted by many to be the one, but others exist, Fram Ultra is outstanding and in inventories, WIX is also good. These are all a spun micro glass filter element.

I use the 20-820 filter because it has twice the capacity the oe filter. Guys here have dissected these and many others, there are vids showing what they found and why it matters, The filtrations have been tested as well.

WIX readily available also.. Pic of both with part numbers. Filters are obviously critical components for their filtrations but there is also valve works inside that are mandatory for our 6.4L (maybe others too),

Capacity difference is shown the WIX is the smaller oe size,

For when you just can't read any more about this sh and you gotta have something to hang onto, Blackstone Oil Analysis (BOA). Find them online, they will send you free of charge the collection kit shown in pic 3. I think it may even be postage paid back to them unless you overnight it.

Blackstone will run your oil sample thru a mass spectrometer and return to you a fairly detailed report about the contents of your oil,( microscopic not chunks). They report on the metal content, fuel, water etc in the oil. If you have elevated content of certain metal, then you know that area of the engine is experiencing heavier then normall wear. Bearings, cam shaft, cylinders, valves, rings, etc, different metals.

Do it Once and you have a snapshot of current wear, continue to sample for wear trends Over say three years, sending in a sample 1 to 3 times a year you will have solid knowledge and records of your engines condition. $25 per sample. Includes a summary on each analysis that interprets current results, it is most informative.

For an additional $10 they will further their analysis and include a measured, accurate 'remainder of life' (tbn) on your sample followed with an oci recommendation.

They keep my wagon around 7500 miles, and my wife's 5.7L Hemi oci is 12,500 miles. (That's a 2015 5.7L Hemi w over 100k mi that is remote started and idled near daily in the winter, extremely low wear, better then a 2010 Toyota Tacoma 4 bang, oci 10k mi). Blackstone is The ****

Instructions come with the sample kits.

Keep an eye on your oil level, the BGE uses oil on a regular basis, The cooling system sprays oil on the cylinder walls at certain intervals during the 4 stroke cycle,.

Mine willl use 1/2 to 3/4 qt in 5000 miles ish.

Just know oil mileage is normal for the truck engine. I will hear light chatter half a quart low. And a quart low (only once) it's getting louder and I'm thinking wtf, top it off with RL5w40, sound of music.

Blue Moon. I won't drink 3 and then post about things I seem overly passionate about. At least for awhile lol

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So how exactly does that oil filter you mentioned fit ?, is there a mod that has to be performed or it just screws on?
 
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dmillar74

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Update... So, I began this post back on 2/26. I had 46,000 miles and they replaced all of my lifters in my 6.4. I had deep reservations about them not replacing my cam. Called Chrysler customer service to try to get some info on how a cam would be ok in this situation. I couldn’t get anywhere with them. I told them that I’m sure I will be having this happen again sooner or later. They simply replaced all the lifters. Well, I have 56,000 miles on my truck now and my truck is back in the shop again for noisy lifters. That is just 10k later. I don’t, yet, have details but was sent this message from the dealer. Looks like we are going through lifters again?

a0b8cd15f27c2cafec5742c5e71d5fa0.jpg


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WY.Ram

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So how exactly does that oil filter you mentioned fit ?, is there a mod that has to be performed or it just screws on?
Apologies, I missed your post. No modification necessary, it just screws on. Looking at the location with the larger filter Installed, there is good space and it looks like an intended fit. I think the OE filter is just really small.

I don't know how well the larger filter can address the tick but I think the larger volume of filtered oil being readily available before the filter bypass opens under heavy demand bodes well for the overall engine health.

'16 Wagon Greene tune feed'n & fire'n 6.4L with 6spd 5.13 AAM, 37" KM3, -12mm Fuels Thuren Overland, DOR, Purple Cranium CAI, ARH, Solo Mach44 z36, EBC Custom vinyl AVS, 4% tint Morimoto, Rigid, Diode Dynamics AlfaOBD, Diablo, Nanny Kill, Locker bypass .................
 

WY.Ram

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Update... So, I began this post back on 2/26. I had 46,000 miles and they replaced all of my lifters in my 6.4. I had deep reservations about them not replacing my cam. Called Chrysler customer service to try to get some info on how a cam would be ok in this situation. I couldn’t get anywhere with them. I told them that I’m sure I will be having this happen again sooner or later. They simply replaced all the lifters. Well, I have 56,000 miles on my truck now and my truck is back in the shop again for noisy lifters. That is just 10k later. I don’t, yet, have details but was sent this message from the dealer. Looks like we are going through lifters again?

a0b8cd15f27c2cafec5742c5e71d5fa0.jpg


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Let em know you can save them the trouble of contacting FCA engineers and can tell them what more they need to do to even have a chance, samething you told em last time. And furthermore if they choose not change the bump stick again, more than likely the next time they see the truck its going to need a entire new engine due to cam/lifter shrapnel trashing the bearings. I'd imagine that's probably what would happen next.


'16 Wagon Greene tune feed'n & fire'n 6.4L with 6spd 5.13 AAM, 37" KM3, -12mm Fuels Thuren Overland, DOR, Purple Cranium CAI, ARH, Solo Mach44 z36, EBC Custom vinyl AVS, 4% tint Morimoto, Rigid, Diode Dynamics AlfaOBD, Diablo, Nanny Kill, Locker bypass .................
 
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dmillar74

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Let em know you can save them the trouble of contacting FCA engineers and can tell them what more they need to do to even have a chance, samething you told em last time. And furthermore if they choose not change the bump stick again, more than likely the next time they see the truck its going to need a entire new engine due to cam/lifter shrapnel trashing the bearings. I'd imagine that's probably what would happen next.


'16 Wagon Greene tune feed'n & fire'n 6.4L with 6spd 5.13 AAM, 37" KM3, -12mm Fuels Thuren Overland, DOR, Purple Cranium CAI, ARH, Solo Mach44 z36, EBC Custom vinyl AVS, 4% tint Morimoto, Rigid, Diode Dynamics AlfaOBD, Diablo, Nanny Kill, Locker bypass .................

Agree! It’s just ridiculous. I’ll update the progress on this!


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dmillar74

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Update: so they are going to replace for lifters that were collapsed. This is just unbelievable. They said the cam is fine with no damage. I had all of the lifters replaced 10,000 miles ago and already four of them collapsed and I’m supposed to believe that we are going to be good now? I’ve always been a ram truck person. I’m not so sure after this time.


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RedneckHippy

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Dude, they better show you that cam in person. I bet they didn’t even look at it.
 

Mule19

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Apologies, I missed your post. No modification necessary, it just screws on. Looking at the location with the larger filter Installed, there is good space and it looks like an intended fit. I think the OE filter is just really small.

I don't know how well the larger filter can address the tick but I think the larger volume of filtered oil being readily available before the filter bypass opens under heavy demand bodes well for the overall engine health.

'16 Wagon Greene tune feed'n & fire'n 6.4L with 6spd 5.13 AAM, 37" KM3, -12mm Fuels Thuren Overland, DOR, Purple Cranium CAI, ARH, Solo Mach44 z36, EBC Custom vinyl AVS, 4% tint Morimoto, Rigid, Diode Dynamics AlfaOBD, Diablo, Nanny Kill, Locker bypass .................

Thanks for the response, I already ordered a RP filter I’ll be doing a oil change on my wagon soon enough.
 

theviking

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My truck had noisy (collapsed) lifters but the cam was fine, as were the rollers. So it's possible you really didn't need a cam. I just ordered non-MDS lifters since it was on my dime and I don't want to go through this again anytime soon.
 

HEMIMANN

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Unfortunately, MDS isn't the cause, so don't expect non-MDS lifters to fix it. More important is the brand and quality of the lifter. Make sure you use the best that members have identified. I personally don't recall what it is.

Supposedly Ram / FCA sourced new / improved lifters from a new vendor starting with 2017 model build year. I'm still concerned, so upping lubricant quality. Many failures on here despite using the corporate supplier recommendation (PUP 0W-40). Lab test results show lubricity isn't that good compared to 5W-30's and other brands, so I'm changing over to highest film strength oil = Amsoil. I'll start with their 0W-40, but still think that's the wrong approach, having been a Lubrication Engineer for Mobil. It looks to me like they were throwing viscosity numbers against the wall that looked the best on paper without really assessing what the lubricant needs of their cam design is.
 

theviking

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Unfortunately, MDS isn't the cause, so don't expect non-MDS lifters to fix it. More important is the brand and quality of the lifter. Make sure you use the best that members have identified. I personally don't recall what it is.

Supposedly Ram / FCA sourced new / improved lifters from a new vendor starting with 2017 model build year. I'm still concerned, so upping lubricant quality. Many failures on here despite using the corporate supplier recommendation (PUP 0W-40). Lab test results show lubricity isn't that good compared to 5W-30's and other brands, so I'm changing over to highest film strength oil = Amsoil. I'll start with their 0W-40, but still think that's the wrong approach, having been a Lubrication Engineer for Mobil. It looks to me like they were throwing viscosity numbers against the wall that looked the best on paper without really assessing what the lubricant needs of their cam design is.

I went with the OEM "Hellcat" lifter on the advice of Modern Muscle Xtreme. My original lifters didn't have the needle bearing failure that's commonly reported thankfully. But by 75k they were starting to get very noisy so I decided to replace everything. To your point, MMX also suggested staying away from the OEM recommended winter rating and use a 5 or 10 weight instead. I always used either PuP or Amsoil but just switched over to Redline 5W-40.
 
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