Lifters, extended idle times, oil

[dmillar74]

I have a 2016 Ram 2500 with the 6.4 Hemi. I have almost 60k on the truck now. Been through two sets of lifters (on my third set now). Used only 0w40 Pennzoil ultra Platinum since the beginning. Since I’ve gotten the third set installed, by the dealer a few months ago, I have made sure I don’t idle much anymore. For the long haulers that haven’t had lifter issues, do you idle your truck much or at all? I tended to, in the past, idle more extensively. I’d usually go 5-7k between oil changes too. Just curious if staying with 0w40, keep idling to a minimum and oil changes more in the 3-6k range, if that will solve my problem? I’m about to go past my drivetrain warranty at 60k and I’d love to have some answers from some who have had good success. The dealer doesn’t say much of anything of course. I’m thinking of going to 5w30 redline based on lots of discussions I’ve read in forums too. Any thoughts on this idling issue? Have I solved or minimized my chronic “eating lifters” problem?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[NewBlackDak]

I’m at 96K on my original lifters.
Idling for me consists of remote starting the truck when it’s really cold, and before I hook up to a trailer to make sure everything is warmed up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HEMIMANN]

I try not to idle to the extent possible. For instance - when waiting at the bank drive thru, I shut off the engine. I won't let it idle if talking to someone in the driveway. etc.

My EVIC says my idle time is less than 10% of total engine run time. I read in a number of places FCA changed lifter vendors and perhaps design starting with my model year (2017). But you say you're on set number 3, so I can't believe those are the old ones leftover. Maybe your oil passages are clogged? They shouldn't be because you're doing everything else right (short OCI's, proper oil, etc.).

 

[Firebird]

I run Redline 5w40 in my 6.4, the excellent oil threads here seem to support that oil. I don't idle a ton, but I do some.

 

[ramffml]

I have a 2016 Ram 2500 with the 6.4 Hemi. I have almost 60k on the truck now. Been through two sets of lifters (on my third set now). Used only 0w40 Pennzoil ultra Platinum since the beginning. Since I’ve gotten the third set installed, by the dealer a few months ago, I have made sure I don’t idle much anymore. For the long haulers that haven’t had lifter issues, do you idle your truck much or at all? I tended to, in the past, idle more extensively. I’d usually go 5-7k between oil changes too. Just curious if staying with 0w40, keep idling to a minimum and oil changes more in the 3-6k range, if that will solve my problem? I’m about to go past my drivetrain warranty at 60k and I’d love to have some answers from some who have had good success. The dealer doesn’t say much of anything of course. I’m thinking of going to 5w30 redline based on lots of discussions I’ve read in forums too. Any thoughts on this idling issue? Have I solved or minimized my chronic “eating lifters” problem?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't know about "will solve your problem", but I think it's clear that your current oil choices are not doing it for your engine. Do you do Blackstone UOA? I would start there, and I would also run Redline yes. One theory floating around for the failing lifters is dirty oil (the theory being that the needle bearings are very sensitive to gumming up and/or deposits). So I would also change to a Wix or Royal Purple oil filter if you're still on OEM filters.

Trucks that idle excessively are supposed to have their oil changed every 320 hours, regardless of Mileage.

 

[crazy jerry]

3 sets of lifters ehh. sounds like the engine wasnt rebuilt correctly or all the metal wasnt cleaned out and immediatly fouled the new lifters. theres no other explanation.
our work trucks idle 8hr a day literly. they are well over 2000hr idle. probly close to 3000 honestly. last i checked one of them was at 2500. dealer changed the oil a few times but the trucks went to quick lube places a few times as well so god only knows what oil them clowns dumped in but it sure wasnt amsoil or redline. probly valvoline euro or something along those lines

 

[dmillar74]

I don't know about "will solve your problem", but I think it's clear that your current oil choices are not doing it for your engine. Do you do Blackstone UOA? I would start there, and I would also run Redline yes. One theory floating around for the failing lifters is dirty oil (the theory being that the needle bearings are very sensitive to gumming up and/or deposits). So I would also change to a Wix or Royal Purple oil filter if you're still on OEM filters.

Trucks that idle excessively are supposed to have their oil changed every 320 hours, regardless of Mileage.

I’ve thought about doing a blackstone test. I did drop some lubegard in about 1500 miles ago. Do you think that’ll throw it off the test? I have about 3,300 miles since my last oil change, which reading on blackstone’s website says should be fine. I have also been shifting the gears to 6 (or lower when driving slower) and keeping it from going into MDS... I want this truck to last for a good while longer but being on the third set of lifters AND the dealer saying the cam is fine (!!!!??), I’m not so sure about that. I do plan on the 5w30 redline and the Royal Purple filter, like you and many others have recommended that I’ve read on some oil threads, for my next oil change which I may do sooner than I normally would. I don’t hear lifter noises but, on a cold morning, I hear about 30 seconds to a minute of knocking on startup but then it goes away. I’m thinking it may be piston slap but I don’t know. It could be lifters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tidefan1967]

I’ve thought about doing a blackstone test. I did drop some lubegard in about 1500 miles ago. Do you think that’ll throw it off the test? I have about 3,300 miles since my last oil change, which reading on blackstone’s website says should be fine. I have also been shifting the gears to 6 (or lower when driving slower) and keeping it from going into MDS... I want this truck to last for a good while longer but being on the third set of lifters AND the dealer saying the cam is fine (!!!!??), I’m not so sure about that. I do plan on the 5w30 redline and the Royal Purple filter, like you and many others have recommended that I’ve read on some oil threads, for my next oil change which I may do sooner than I normally would. I don’t hear lifter noises but, on a cold morning, I hear about 30 seconds to a minute of knocking on startup but then it goes away. I’m thinking it may be piston slap but I don’t know. It could be lifters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Since you put the Lubeguard in there I would probably wait awhile before dumping it and getting that sample for Blackstone. I would run it to 5K and then swap over to the Redline 5W30, there's no reason why you shouldn't give that Lubeguard some time to work. I can't see how it would affect the numbers that much on the UOA personally.

 

[dmillar74]

Since you put the Lubeguard in there I would probably wait awhile before dumping it and getting that sample for Blackstone. I would run it to 5K and then swap over to the Redline 5W30, there's no reason why you shouldn't give that Lubeguard some time to work. I can't see how it would affect the numbers that much on the UOA personally.

Appreciate all the advice. I think that’s a good plan. Thank you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dodge 1500 4X4]

Hi, I live in the great north, where temps get below 0, at times in the winter I put 0w20 redline in this year for piston slap, it quieted down considerable, back to 5w30 about this time of the year, I'm trying to new Royal Purple 20-500 with a 2.764 base O.D gasket dia, its a longer filter maybe better.

 

[Travelin Ram]

My thoughts are that you’re on the path to lifter set number 4, no matter what you do with respect to oils. This is simply not a lubricant issue, it’s damage to the cam, lifter bores, oil passages, or some other cause not yet identified and corrected.

There are just too many trucks out there running all kinds of oils that don’t eat lifters like that. Ditto for commercial vehicles that idle a lot.

IMO the idle time is just a red herring that has caught people’s fancy because it gives us the illusion we have some control of the outcome. I believe there was (possibly is) a long-standing QC issue with the component supplier.

 

[DILLIGAF]

Its -40 here during the winter, If If Idling was an issue no one would own Rams in Alberta.

Mine Idles for hours on end at those temps.

I use PUP 5w30

Pulling my Cam May long. looking forward to seeing the damage.

 

[ramffml]

My thoughts are that you’re on the path to lifter set number 4, no matter what you do with respect to oils. This is simply not a lubricant issue, it’s damage to the cam, lifter bores, oil passages, or some other cause not yet identified and corrected.

There are just too many trucks out there running all kinds of oils that don’t eat lifters like that. Ditto for commercial vehicles that idle a lot.

IMO the idle time is just a red herring that has caught people’s fancy because it gives us the illusion we have some control of the outcome. I believe there was (possibly is) a long-standing QC issue with the component supplier.

Agreed. Another possibility, a lot of cop cars had this problem and so we think since cop cars idle a lot it might be an idling problem. But we also know that if a car idles extensively it needs to follow the extreme service interval which calls for oil change at 320 hours. If a cop car runs all day every day, that 320 hours means an oil change every 2 weeks. How many cop cars would get that? Or even every month if it's only on 12 hours a day?

 

[crazy jerry]

3 sets of lifters ehh. sounds like the engine wasnt rebuilt correctly or all the metal wasnt cleaned out and immediatly fouled the new lifters. theres no other explanation.
our work trucks idle 8hr a day literly. they are well over 2000hr idle. probly close to 3000 honestly. last i checked one of them was at 2500. dealer changed the oil a few times but the trucks went to quick lube places a few times as well so god only knows what oil them clowns dumped in but it sure wasnt amsoil or redline. probly valvoline euro or something along those lines

ill edit my own post. just checked one of our trucks this morning. 4900 idle hr.
OP is replacing lifters all the time because who ever is rebuilding his engine isnt compotant. simple as that

 

[dmillar74]

So here I am once again with possible lifter problems. To recap, been using 0-40 PUP from the dealer since the beginning and usually get oil changes in 5,000 miles or so. Just took my 2016 6.4 Ram to the dealer with what sounds, AGAIN, like lifters. The initial inspection does appear to be lifters again but haven't gotten the confirmation from the heavy truck mechanics there. If this is the case, here is the history on my truck:

1. First set of lifters was from 0 - 46,285 miles (when new) - 46,285 on this set of lifters
2. Second set of lifters was from 46,285 - 55,964 miles - 9,679 on this set of lifters
3. Third set of lifters from 55,964 miles to approximately 65,000 miles (assuming we hear back that it is the lifters again). - 9,036 on this set of lifters
4. Fourth set of lifters appears to be right now at approximately 65,000 miles. I should be hearing from them today or tomorrow if it is in fact lifters again.

 

[wgreggking]

Sounds like its more than a lifter issue, like others said.
My 17 6.4 early on was using PUP0W40, then at 40K 0w40 RL, tried 5w40 RL no different. All filters were Royal purple.
It has always been a loud engine, ticky, but I did Blackstone testing from day one, all good wear numbers, 4K-7 K OCI's did not idle excessively but really didn't pay that much attention about it. Its been a great truck, now at 82K. Also did the ATS tranny heater bypass FWIW. If that happened to me I would probably make sure all the issues with the lifter/ cam /bearings is addressed, Maybe a new motor.

 

[2003F350]

Over 70k on my 2017, probably less than 10% idle time (I'd have to check), running Mobil 1 0-W40 because it's readily available, no noise from my lifters. I let it go into MDS, I occasionally (5-10/year) pull around 7-8000 lbs. Honestly - I'm not worried at this point. I also purchased the Lifetime MaxxCare, so if it goes they can fix it.

 

[crazy jerry]

come back when you have more info than "it sounds like i need another set of lifters, but i dont know"

when you do actually know something, we would love to hear

 

[huntergreen]

Could

I have a 2016 Ram 2500 with the 6.4 Hemi. I have almost 60k on the truck now. Been through two sets of lifters (on my third set now). Used only 0w40 Pennzoil ultra Platinum since the beginning. Since I’ve gotten the third set installed, by the dealer a few months ago, I have made sure I don’t idle much anymore. For the long haulers that haven’t had lifter issues, do you idle your truck much or at all? I tended to, in the past, idle more extensively. I’d usually go 5-7k between oil changes too. Just curious if staying with 0w40, keep idling to a minimum and oil changes more in the 3-6k range, if that will solve my problem? I’m about to go past my drivetrain warranty at 60k and I’d love to have some answers from some who have had good success. The dealer doesn’t say much of anything of course. I’m thinking of going to 5w30 redline based on lots of discussions I’ve read in forums too. Any thoughts on this idling issue? Have I solved or minimized my chronic “eating lifters” problem?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Could always get an extended drivetrain warranty if your still below 60000 miles.

 

[dmillar74]

come back when you have more info than "it sounds like i need another set of lifters, but i dont know"

when you do actually know something, we would love to hear

Will do. I'll be sure to update what is going on.