Love the truck, not happy with reliability

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PNW-Ram

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I bought a new '17 3500 4x4 in late '17.

So far I've had three recalls, has the dealer replace the failed stereo, had a key fail (electronics) and now there's a failed wheel speed sensor so I have no ABS, traction control or cruise control.

In all the service it's gone through, the dealership was a pain. They always took half a day (to diagnose and replace a failed key!) or more, but never offered anything other than "sit in the waiting room while we work". No loaner car, no ride to work, nothing. I never bothered to have them replace the key, because waiting a half day for them to decide what the problem is, and if it was covered by warranty wasn't worth the hassle and cost. My truck is now out of warranty and the service to diagnose and fix the wheel speed sensor is $160 to start, and "we'll see where it goes". Of course they need the truck for an entire day.

Can't say that I'm happy with a crap warranty and the lack of service from my local dealer. There's absolutely no reason for a modern, well made vehicle to have three recalls and three failures in 3 1/2 years.

Edit: forgot that I also had a failed alternator replaced under warranty
 
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67 StingrayJ

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PNW,

It's good to know that not everyone on here isn't all peaches and cream when it comes to their Ram. I'm sorry you have experienced such a sour history with your truck. But I appreciate you sharing. If you don't say anything, nobody will find out, and then your just kicking the can down the road.

If it were me, I'd have a face to face conversation with the sales manager at your local dealership. And with that, I'd be looking for them to give you a exceptional deal on a replacement truck. But that's a very optimistic presumption though. Chances are they'll just find another way to screw you out of more Time, money and/or quality vehicle.

I'd be selling the vehicle. 3 strikes and you're out!
 

Travelin Ram

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Three minor issues in three years is not a big deal IMO. I say minor because they’re all inconveniences, not preventing the truck from operating.

Recalls are a fact of life in all vehicles these days. I believe we have no one to thank but ourselves. Customers demand all the latest greatest tech that gets hyped by the automotive press. When a vehicle gets matured in the manufacturing cycle they call it “old” and denigrate it. Connect that with all the lawsuit happy people and you have set the stage for aggressive defense of even minimally risky situations.
 
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PNW-Ram

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PNW,

It's good to know that not everyone on here isn't all peaches and cream when it comes to their Ram. I'm sorry you have experienced such a sour history with your truck. But I appreciate you sharing. If you don't say anything, nobody will find out, and then your just kicking the can down the road.

If it were me, I'd have a face to face conversation with the sales manager at your local dealership. And with that, I'd be looking for them to give you a exceptional deal on a replacement truck. But that's a very optimistic presumption though. Chances are they'll just find another way to screw you out of more Time, money and/or quality vehicle.

I'd be selling the vehicle. 3 strikes and you're out!
I have no interest in replacing it, and certainly not with these guys.

When I bought my truck, I went to my local dealership. The sales guy quoted me a price, and when he handed me the invoice it was many thousands over the quote. I objected and told him to cut the garbage off the invoice. Of course he "needed to talk to the manager" to get rid of all the BS, like "free lifetime oil changes" (WTF does that even mean?), the Military Grade paint protection and all the stereotypical ****** used car salesman stuff. When he came back, the invoice was still $900 over his quote. When I asked, he told me he had rounded the number. I said he could call me when he would offer me the truck at the agreed to price. A week later (after he and the sales manager called me with BS prices that were still above the quote) I found one out of state. I bought it instead.
 

Tach_tech

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To be honest 3 fairly simple issues since 2017 is nothing out of the ordinary. If you don’t want to deal with recalls, don’t buy a new vehicle, simple as that. Recalls are a way of life for vehicles, especially new ones. I know it sounds like a bad thing and can be a pain getting it taken care of, but at least a potential issue is being fixed for free. Every vehicle being made out there is going to get recalls on them from time to time. People will say older vehicles never had recalls like this, and that is true. However 20 years ago, the technology was vastly different/simpler and recalls were usually only issued for pretty big safety concerns. Now everyone likes to sue at the drop of a hat so recalls are issued for anything that could potentially be a safety issue.

As for your dealer experience, I’m going to guess it’s either a smaller dealer or they’re just ****. We have loaners as well as shuttle drivers so customers don’t have to hang around if they don’t want too.

Also when you have an appt at a shop that doesn’t mean it’s going in right then. The appt is to check in the vehicle. So even if it’s something like a key fob, it might not actually get into the shop for 30 mins or a couple hours. Then the tech would probably spend 10 minutes to diagnose it, find out it’s just a fob. Put an estimate into parts, parts looks up the fob, then sends the estimate to the advisor who then has to get it checked for possible warranty coverage. Finally then the advisor can contact the customer. Depending how busy or how good/bad the service/parts people are, this can be done quickly or take forever. When we get a customer in who is physically waiting at the dealer though, we do our best to get them in right away if possible.

I feel like a lot of your frustration comes from the quality or lack there of at your particular dealer, which is unfortunate and all to common now a days.
 

HEMIMANN

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@Tach_tech - I think many of us express frustration at the wide variety of quality among Ram dealers. Some other OEM's do a far better job riding herd on dealers and weeding out non-performers. I won't name names here, just explaining some of what you see that may not be articulated.
 

67 StingrayJ

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I want to draw on my years of customer service and add, for every complaint you get, there are 100 more that you don't get. You have to understand that one man's complaint is just a small sample of many that are not being articulated. Grievances with a manufacturer, heartburn if you will, are not always the result of recall, or poor customer service. It's often an accumulation over time in which one particular issue becomes the straw that broke the camels back.

If you think about it, recalls are the instances that we should be thankful as consumers. There is a lot a manufacturer take into account before issuing a recall and they don't often issue them (GM ignition). Unfortunately, $$$ is the driving factor in most cases. It would be an easier pill to swallow had the dealership showed some common courtesy to our friend PNW.

I personally think that the entire manufacturer/dealership/customer relationship is flawed. I know the structure exists to protect the consumer, but one has to think, why doesn't the manufacturer want to deal with customers direct? And why should we customers go through a middle man, and pay dealer mark ups? Anyone who wants to shell out the thousands upon thousands of dollars it takes to buy a new vehicle these days is foolish if they haven't done their homework first. The internet is so far entwined into our lives at this point, I don't really think there is a point to dealerships anymore. Manufacturers can still reach their target audience through events, or demos. Maybe this idea of eliminating dealerships isn't as appealing to everyone as going down to the local dealership for a test drive. But I can think of many services that a dealership offers that can be accomplished through another means. For example, I think anyone should be able to take their vehicle to any certified mechanic of their choosing for warranty or recall work.
 

turkeybird56

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@Tach_tech - I think many of us express frustration at the wide variety of quality among Ram dealers. Some other OEM's do a far better job riding herd on dealers and weeding out non-performers. I won't name names here, just explaining some of what you see that may not be articulated.
Had my truck 3 years now real soon, have had 3 recalls done, one non recall and 1 TSB where they kept truck (AC) for 2 days. Dealership had no loaners available, they R so busy since letup of Covid a lil, loaners are 2 months out. So SA had mechanic bring me home, and come back when truck finished and pick me up, and I am an hour away from the dealership. Overall, works for me. But every dealership, mechanics and SA's are different. I have been fortunate good stuff from my dealership. There is one in town where I live I would neva buy a vehicle from, LOL. All be safe.
 

Tach_tech

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I get what your saying about bypassing a dealer for sales/service. the issue with service and warranty work is that how can the manufacture be sure of the quality of the work being performed as well as that the techs working on the vehicles are qualified. With warranty/recalls unless you’ve gone through the required manufacture training you‘re not allowed to do that work. If I was a manufacture and having to pay the bill for warranty repairs I would do my best to making sure the techs trusted to do the repairs know what they’re doing. An example would be you take you’re vehicle to Jim bobs auto for a safety recall, they mess up the recall and you crash your car going down the highway. Who’s to blame, the tech? the shop? Manufacture? You could point blame to anyone of them and make a case for why.

I do agree with the buying from the manufacture though.
 

67 StingrayJ

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I get what your saying about bypassing a dealer for sales/service. the issue with service and warranty work is that how can the manufacture be sure of the quality of the work being performed as well as that the techs working on the vehicles are qualified. With warranty/recalls unless you’ve gone through the required manufacture training you‘re not allowed to do that work. If I was a manufacture and having to pay the bill for warranty repairs I would do my best to making sure the techs trusted to do the repairs know what they’re doing. An example would be you take you’re vehicle to Jim bobs auto for a safety recall, they mess up the recall and you crash your car going down the highway. Who’s to blame, the tech? the shop? Manufacture? You could point blame to anyone of them and make a case for why.

I do agree with the buying from the manufacture though.
That's why I said certified. If you don't trust that mechanic, don't take it there. :)
And I can tell you right now, I don't trust dealerships. Hell, I used to work for a dealership back in 2006. Granted I was only a service porter, but you learn a lot form having daily conversations with the Service department Manager, and the mechanics.
 
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Tach_tech

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Certification would be a nightmare though, especially if there was no requirements for a shop to have it. So they could just choose what vehicles they want to do warranty work on, and I’d be willing to bet no shops would want to deal with it. Since warranty work generally pays 50% of retail shops wouldn’t want to touch it. If I didn’t have to perform warranty work as a tech I wouldn’t.

I get what your saying with the idea it just wouldn’t be practical in operation.
 

67 StingrayJ

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Certification would be a nightmare though, especially if there was no requirements for a shop to have it. So they could just choose what vehicles they want to do warranty work on, and I’d be willing to bet no shops would want to deal with it. Since warranty work generally pays 50% of retail shops wouldn’t want to touch it. If I didn’t have to perform warranty work as a tech I wouldn’t.

I get what your saying with the idea it just wouldn’t be practical in operation.
Probably not. it just sucks you spend over $50, maybe $70K for a truck thats supposed to help you get work done and you end up spending days on end at the dealership. It just sux.
 

Tach_tech

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Probably not. it just sucks you spend over $50, maybe $70K for a truck thats supposed to help you get work done and you end up spending days on end at the dealership. It just sux.
Oh 100%, as a dealer tech I know the **** show all to well.
 
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PNW-Ram

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Three minor issues in three years is not a big deal IMO. I say minor because they’re all inconveniences, not preventing the truck from operating.

Recalls are a fact of life in all vehicles these days. I believe we have no one to thank but ourselves. Customers demand all the latest greatest tech that gets hyped by the automotive press. When a vehicle gets matured in the manufacturing cycle they call it “old” and denigrate it. Connect that with all the lawsuit happy people and you have set the stage for aggressive defense of even minimally risky situations.
I forgot one other issue - one of the alternators failed and took a 1/2 day to diagnose and another half day to replace.

I understand that things break and things aren't perfect. However, when there's no support from the dealer it simply costs me a lot of money to solve the problem. I could have purchased a used truck and would have expected a lack of support, but I bought a new truck, and paid for support. Sorry, but I don't agree that raising our standards causes more failures in new vehicles. My truck doesn't have any of the latest & greatest tech; single cab truck have few options, and those are pretty basic (cloth seats, power windows and a slightly less crap stereo).
 

67 StingrayJ

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I forgot one other issue - one of the alternators failed and took a 1/2 day to diagnose and another half day to replace.

I understand that things break and things aren't perfect. However, when there's no support from the dealer it simply costs me a lot of money to solve the problem. I could have purchased a used truck and would have expected a lack of support, but I bought a new truck, and paid for support. Sorry, but I don't agree that raising our standards causes more failures in new vehicles. My truck doesn't have any of the latest & greatest tech; single cab truck have few options, and those are pretty basic (cloth seats, power windows and a slightly less crap stereo).

It's not like making vehicles is anything new. Maybe we're to blame for demanding cheaper (less expensive) products? Maybe we forced the manufacturers hand in now they have to outsource things like alternators, airbags, actuators, motors, etc. to cheapest vendors?

Lately, I have been spending more $ just to make sure that I get American. Things like Tonneau covers, running boards, Fender flairs, suspension air lifts, etc. Sure, it's more expensive, but if my neighbor isn't employed because I'm buying the cheapest crap from Gina, then how can I expect him to help keep me employed by buying products that I make?

I recently bought a Camp Chef XL smoker directly from Camp Chef. The smoker is 100% American made and the company has a good reputation. This smoker wasn't cheap (inexpensive) by any stretch of the imagination but it was important to me that i buy from a reputable company that knows the value of good customer service. Plus, I wanted someone who spoke English in the event there were ever a problem. Well **** happens and the thing caught fire and burned all the paint off the outside. I emailed them direct and they sent me a knew one, no problem. Sure, getting it replaced was a PITA. But I suppose that's the gamble you take when buying brand new. Had I gone through a vendor, (or a dealership) I'd have to deal with there BS. If only every manufacturer understood the value of producing a quality product, and good customer service.
 
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PNW-Ram

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It's not like making vehicles is anything new. Maybe we're to blame for demanding cheaper (less expensive) products? Maybe we forced the manufacturers hand in now they have to outsource things like alternators, airbags, actuators, motors, etc. to cheapest vendors?

Lately, I have been spending more $ just to make sure that I get American. Things like Tonneau covers, running boards, Fender flairs, suspension air lifts, etc. Sure, it's more expensive, but if my neighbor isn't employed because I'm buying the cheapest crap from Gina, then how can I expect him to help keep me employed by buying products that I make?

I recently bought a Camp Chef XL smoker directly from Camp Chef. The smoker is 100% American made and the company has a good reputation. This smoker wasn't cheap (inexpensive) by any stretch of the imagination but it was important to me that i buy from a reputable company that knows the value of good customer service. Plus, I wanted someone who spoke English in the event there were ever a problem. Well **** happens and the thing caught fire and burned all the paint off the outside. I emailed them direct and they sent me a knew one, no problem. Sure, getting it replaced was a PITA. But I suppose that's the gamble you take when buying brand new. Had I gone through a vendor, (or a dealership) I'd have to deal with there BS. If only every manufacturer understood the value of producing a quality product, and good customer service.
I also recently bought a Camp Chef smoker (love it, btw). They actually understand customer service. I had it go out during a smoke, and called for advice. I got a native English speaker on the phone quickly, and he he helped me trouble shoot the problem. When it wears out, or a friend is asking about pellet smokers, I'm going to recommend Camp Chef - not because they are 100% reliable, but because they stand behind their product. Ram on the other hand...
 

Smokey613

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If you guys think the auto industry is bad, just do some research on the RV industry manufacturing, sales and service. You talk about a bunch of con men at all levels and poor service…… but we keep buying them.
 

crash68

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Since warranty work generally pays 50% of retail shops wouldn’t want to touch it.
There is something fundamentally wrong with how warranty work pays about half what a customer would pay out of pocket. I'm surprised no one has legally challenged this yet.
 
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