Major Hammering/ticking on cold start today.

[GsRAM]

Gents, good evening,

This morning I started my truck after it had been sitting for about 2.5weeks or so.

I had loud ticking and valve train noise, and the engine was missing. No check engine light.

I shut it down and restarted and it continued ticking and eventuality went away. Rest of the day it was quiet.

This happened once before last year before my most recent oil change, but this time was worse.

Last time I ran the truck, I had come home from a camping trip, pulled into the garage and shut it off.

Later that day, I pulled it out to wash it, then pulled it back in. It then sat from then till today.

It seems like this problem occurs with mine when I do brief start ups/shut downs and then let it sit for a week or two.

Last year I was running PUP and an OEM MOPAR filter.

In April I changed to Valvoline full syn (ordered the advanced, Walmart sent me the euro blend) and a Fram ultra filter.

I'm supposed to run 0w 40 oil, in my 6.4L, but is now the time, in light of this to switch to redline 5w 30 and the bigger royal purple filter? (I don't know the part number).

I don't know if that would cure my problem or not. Sure seems the only way to stop it is to take it for a drive everytime I start it and not just start. Pull out of garage, pull back in and shut down.

Normally I'd suspect a bad oil filter ADBV, but the fram ultra is a good filter. Seems like on short runs for some reason the lifters bleed down and I'm starting with a collapsed lifter.

I have 13,600 miles on it.... not good. I'm sure the dealer would not be able to reproduce it.

Thoughts?

 

[crazy jerry]

i dont have quit as many miles but its 3yo. all winter it sits 2weeks between starts. summer usually 1week as i have a commuter car for weekday travel. ive never experienced what you have. winter i use block heater before starting. factory penzoil and wix xp is what i used since new. very early on i got the 2sec tap on two occasions but that was 3yr ago . im just gonna keep on doin what im doin and if something goes sideways ill cross that bridge when i get there

 

[farmallboy]

The block heater an add on? I assume these didn't come with one. Warming things up a bit might be a good idea for this thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[stevenP]

I have another FCA product (V6 mini van) as my DD, and it does that rattle and tick all to heck noises... everytime it sits for more a than a day or two. Obviously all the oil has drained out the engine, to point where its is running for the first few seconds w/o any oil pressure. I am at 50K miles and it seems okay?

 

[GsRAM]

Who knows. Of course it didn't do it when it was new or for the first year or so.

This past episode was by far the worst. Don't need a block heater in the middle of summer. Something is not right with one of the lifters I'm sure, it should not bleed down like it is, regardless of how long it sits.

I have a 1987 Ford Mustang GT that sometimes sits for a few months between start ups and its quiet when it does start.

I was just hoping @Burla, or someone else with some knowledge on this issue would chime in with his thoughts or if the hemi tick is unrelated to this issue.

 

[Sherman Bird]

I'm curious..... since this "tick" or lifter problem has been so prolific, why has no one either at the manufacturer's engineering level or in aftermarket engineering developed a permanent fix for this problem, other than red-line oil..... which is a band-aide... ?

I recollect the "K" engines so popular in Chevy/GMC Trucks back in the day would THUD in the main bearings upon cold startup. My '93 GMC Suburban did it. I replaced the main bearings and it fixed the problem..... for about a month, and the cold start thud came back with a vengeance. My conversations with the ivory tower boys in engineering resulted in "It's not a longevity issue, so we aren't doing anything to correct it", while admitting the crankshaft bore in the blocks were being machined very slightly askew. 3 years later, GM was replacing those engines as a "campaign" for CSI ....

My Suburban continued wit the cold start "Thud, Thud, Thud" until 194,000 miles and a tornado deposited a tree right down the roof ala Tim, the Tool Man Taylor, and his wife's '55 Nomad. It was totaled.

I guess it wasn't a longevity issue after all if it went 194,000 miles and didn't blow up. Of course, that kind of problem on a newer product might set of the check engine light due to more sophisticated monitoring of knock sensors. I'm kind of surprised the Hemi tick doesn't set a knock sensor or misfire code. I recently had a loose rattly catalytic converter heat shield (99 Tahoe) which did cause a P0300 code. I fixed that with a tack weld! Crazy, eh?

 

[LeesEvoX]

I'm curious..... since this "tick" or lifter problem has been so prolific, why has no one either at the manufacturer's engineering level or in aftermarket engineering developed a permanent fix for this problem, other than red-line oil..... which is a band-aide... ?

I recollect the "K" engines so popular in Chevy/GMC Trucks back in the day would THUD in the main bearings upon cold startup. My '93 GMC Suburban did it. I replaced the main bearings and it fixed the problem..... for about a month, and the cold start thud came back with a vengeance. My conversations with the ivory tower boys in engineering resulted in "It's not a longevity issue, so we aren't doing anything to correct it", while admitting the crankshaft bore in the blocks were being machined very slightly askew. 3 years later, GM was replacing those engines as a "campaign" for CSI ....

My Suburban continued wit the cold start "Thud, Thud, Thud" until 194,000 miles and a tornado deposited a tree right down the roof ala Tim, the Tool Man Taylor, and his wife's '55 Nomad. It was totaled.

I guess it wasn't a longevity issue after all if it went 194,000 miles and didn't blow up. Of course, that kind of problem on a newer product might set of the check engine light due to more sophisticated monitoring of knock sensors. I'm kind of surprised the Hemi tick doesn't set a knock sensor or misfire code. I recently had a loose rattly catalytic converter heat shield (99 Tahoe) which did cause a P0300 code. I fixed that with a tack weld! Crazy, eh?

There is.... you replace the stock lifters with hellcat non MDS lifter.

But you obviously lose MDS.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[farmallboy]

There is.... you replace the stock lifters with hellcat non MDS lifter.

But you obviously lose MDS.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

So maybe they can do a recall and that's the free fix to us?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Sherman Bird]

So maybe they can do a recall and that's the free fix to us?!

Not very likely. Recalls are usually for safety items, which, if left unattended, could cause loss of control over your vehicle, etc.

Prolific issues such as lifters, dashboards that are turning into goo, and so forth, fall under "Good Will Campaigns". The best thing you guys can do is complain loudly and often. Especially if you are a family of Ram owners, and have owned Chrysler products since the Carter Administration. FCA wants you happy.

 

[Sherman Bird]

There is.... you replace the stock lifters with hellcat non MDS lifter.

But you obviously lose MDS.

MDS?

 

[Halligan]

Don't worry about it. This has been discussed before on this and other forums. What you did with the quick start and shut off is usually the setup to a loud start the next time. It's happened to me more than once on my 6.4 Hemi. As for the MDS lifter theory I'm not sure that's the culprit because I had a 2010 Ram 2500 with a 5.7 Hemi and it would do the exact same thing without having an MDS system. I lean towards the ADBV in the filter not getting warm and pliable with hot oil and thus staying a little bit open allowing your oil system to lose it's prime.

I've never had this condition happen when either of my trucks was shut off once the engine was warmed up.

In closing, don't sweat it.

 

[ramffml]

Don't worry about it. This has been discussed before on this and other forums. What you did with the quick start and shut off is usually the setup to a loud start the next time. It's happened to me more than once on my 6.4 Hemi. As for the MDS lifter theory I'm not sure that's the culprit because I had a 2010 Ram 2500 with a 5.7 Hemi and it would do the exact same thing without having an MDS system. I lean towards the ADBV in the filter not getting warm and pliable with hot oil and thus staying a little bit open allowing your oil system to lose it's prime.

I've never had this condition happen when either of my trucks was shut off once the engine was warmed up.

In closing, don't sweat it.

So what's the best solution; don't stop the engine unless it has been running for X amount of time, right? And what would the value for "X" be? 1 Minute? Until it has built a a certain oil pressure level??

 

[Sherman Bird]

Yeah, sure.... MDS... Multi displacement system.... I need more coffee!

 

[Sherman Bird]

Don't worry about it. This has been discussed before on this and other forums. What you did with the quick start and shut off is usually the setup to a loud start the next time. It's happened to me more than once on my 6.4 Hemi. As for the MDS lifter theory I'm not sure that's the culprit because I had a 2010 Ram 2500 with a 5.7 Hemi and it would do the exact same thing without having an MDS system. I lean towards the ADBV in the filter not getting warm and pliable with hot oil and thus staying a little bit open allowing your oil system to lose it's prime.

I've never had this condition happen when either of my trucks was shut off once the engine was warmed up.

In closing, don't sweat it.

When I worked at Cadillac as a heavy line tech (engine repairs chiefly)... the 425 had just been released in the new downsized B/C body Caddies in 1977. It was identical to the 472, except for a smaller displacement and a few design revisions... The oil filter was also different.... it was much skinnier than the ones used on 472/502 engines. Customers would take the car to a chain oil change place where they would replace the skinny new fangled filter with a much better (bigger is better) fatter oil filter for the previous Caddy engines., drive home, park the car overnight.... come out the next morning to an engine making all sorts of horrendous ticking/ knocking noises with an oil light that would not go out.

Turned out, the new skinny filter had an anti drain back valve inside whereas the drainback valve was in the engine in the 472/502. The fat filter had no drain back valve, so the oil would drain into the crankcase causing loss of prime for the oil pump.

The fix was simple enough. Because the oil pump was external and part of the timing cover, access to the pump was a simple affair. We would remove the pump cover, pack the gears with petroleum gel, install a new skinny filter filled with oil, and crank 'er up. Fixed it every time.

GM issued a TSB, opened a campaign and notified new owners of this problem.

 

[LeesEvoX]

MDS stands for Multi displacement system. it is the Rams version of Eco mode, and shuts down 4 cylinders

 

[Hydraplane]

Don't worry about it. This has been discussed before on this and other forums. What you did with the quick start and shut off is usually the setup to a loud start the next time. It's happened to me more than once on my 6.4 Hemi. As for the MDS lifter theory I'm not sure that's the culprit because I had a 2010 Ram 2500 with a 5.7 Hemi and it would do the exact same thing without having an MDS system. I lean towards the ADBV in the filter not getting warm and pliable with hot oil and thus staying a little bit open allowing your oil system to lose it's prime.

I've never had this condition happen when either of my trucks was shut off once the engine was warmed up.

In closing, don't sweat it.

I have experienced the same as above, due to "fleet size" vs. lot configuration (cul de sac), I get the same tick after short engine run time on the next restart. I have had it on 5.7 and 6.4 alot of different models since 2004. Different oil filters and oil combos , MDS and non-MDS. I don't recall if the 6.1 did it. I have had my 4.0 Jeep do it too...

 

[Sherman Bird]

MDS stands for Multi displacement system. it is the Rams version of Eco mode, and shuts down 4 cylinders

Yeah, I remembered it after my second round of coffee kicked in!

 

[Sherman Bird]

So, I chatted with my good friend, Michael Herzing, host of "Let's Talk Wheels" Radio program and sponsored by FCA. Michael has a 2018 4WD 1500 Ram with the hemi. He had the tick and went with Shell Rotella 5W20 and cured it.

 

[crazy jerry]

honestly i would try different brand filter. mine routinely sits for weeks and doesnt tick. i also dont start it and shut it off 2min later

 

[Burla]

Gents, good evening,

This morning I started my truck after it had been sitting for about 2.5weeks or so.

I had loud ticking and valve train noise, and the engine was missing. No check engine light.

I shut it down and restarted and it continued ticking and eventuality went away. Rest of the day it was quiet.

This happened once before last year before my most recent oil change, but this time was worse.

Last time I ran the truck, I had come home from a camping trip, pulled into the garage and shut it off.

Later that day, I pulled it out to wash it, then pulled it back in. It then sat from then till today.

It seems like this problem occurs with mine when I do brief start ups/shut downs and then let it sit for a week or two.

Last year I was running PUP and an OEM MOPAR filter.

In April I changed to Valvoline full syn (ordered the advanced, Walmart sent me the euro blend) and a Fram ultra filter.

I'm supposed to run 0w 40 oil, in my 6.4L, but is now the time, in light of this to switch to redline 5w 30 and the bigger royal purple filter? (I don't know the part number).

I don't know if that would cure my problem or not. Sure seems the only way to stop it is to take it for a drive everytime I start it and not just start. Pull out of garage, pull back in and shut down.

Normally I'd suspect a bad oil filter ADBV, but the fram ultra is a good filter. Seems like on short runs for some reason the lifters bleed down and I'm starting with a collapsed lifter.

I have 13,600 miles on it.... not good. I'm sure the dealer would not be able to reproduce it.

Thoughts?

The misfire is what really concerns me, it is very possible the cam is already wiped. if it were me, I'd get a uoa. What valvoline did you use? Do you have factory warranty left? I wouldn't go redline just yet without more info.