MDS delete or not?

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Wild one

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I previously used an Edge Pulsar tuner, which enabled you to select tunes on the fly that either allowed MDS to work or canceled it. I toggled between the two consistently, but I never really saw that much of a difference between when it was on or off.

I am now tuned by hemifever. I opted to have the MDS turned off with the tune. I do not miss it at all. I have a short commute. I am usually towing during my longer trips with my truck, so MDS wouldn't be used much anyway. Otherwise, we take my wife's SUV for family trips.

There is some anecdotal belief that the MDS can be a contributing factor to the cam/lifter failures. This is one of the reasons that I opted to have it turned off. I tried to cover all of my bases to prevent tick or cam/lifter failure.
This video might intrigue you then,worth watching it anyways.

 
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AlbertaRam1500

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Thanks for the video. Gives me (and others) a good idea about this MDS system. After watching it, my decision to do the delete seems like the right choice for me.
 

Wild one

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Thanks for the video. Gives me (and others) a good idea about this MDS system. After watching it, my decision to do the delete seems like the right choice for me.
As long as you used the delete plugs,but if you just had the solenoids turned off,it might not be as good an idea
 

BadHemi2014

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Delete!!! When I had my cam/lifters etc done, I had a nonMDS cam/lifters installed. The shop even recommended it, it's one of their top jobs getting rid of MDS and AFM or whatever it is on Chevy and other makes. As well as broken exhaust mani bolts lol.
I did NOT see a decrease in MPG interestingly. In fact I swear to you my mileage went up by a mile or two per gallon. Of course that could be due to a drop in fuel economy due to the worn cam and bad lifter which was fixed by the rebuild.
 

Jeepwalker

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If it were my truck and I was in your shoes, I'd probably do it too. But not if I were going to get rid of it right away.

If you're a guy who trades in, for a new vehicle at a dealer, I'm wondering, would a 'Delete' be a reason a dealer would refuse the trade? Or if they did, they'd give you less bc they might not be able to re-sell it in that state? IDK....I'm just thinking out loud. If they take it in on trade to re-sell at an auction. If they take it to an auction, they would have to specify what was done, otherwise the buying dealer 'might' refuse it and send it back. But it might be the kind of truck a dealer mechanic might buy too.

While some people might look at the delete as a bonus, a lot of moron buyers might look at it as "..work not having been performed properly." But if you don't mind selling it outright, then you don't have to worry.
 
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AlbertaRam1500

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Yep. I told the shop to do the MDS delete. (Hellcat lifters, new cam, solenoid plug deletes, retune) not to mention replacing the current manifolds/bolts with aftermarket ones. I’ll have my truck back in a week and will be able to report back.

Jeepwalker: after spending this kind of money, I have no intention of trading it in anytime soon. Hoping to have it for 5 more years or longer.

Thanks for the tips/comments everyone.
 

CanuckRam1313

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MDS is garbage and doesn't really afford one much increase in mileage.
The feeling of vehicle hunting/surging, and dang near feeling like it's stumbling when it's going in and out of MDS, plus that sluggish transmission feel when it's doing it too.... forget it.
All V8, All the Time! ;)
 

Jeepwalker

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Jeepwalker: after spending this kind of money, I have no intention of trading it in anytime soon. Hoping to have it for 5 more years or longer.

Ha ha.... good for you. :waytogo: I've known so many people who dumped a ton of money into a vehicle, and then ...for nearly inexplicable reasons, after they get everything straightened out and reliable, they turn around and dump it and buy something new right away. Its a certain psychology I've seen over and over.

I had a neighbor who's 6.4 Diesel King Ranch needed head gaskets. You know how those engines were. While it was at the shop he had them do a bunch of stuff, including a tune, gauges, ball joints, etc. And then put $1,600 of tires on it. It was a lot of work, they replaced a lot of the general wear items. Yes it was a nice truck too, although a few rust areas developing. The shop didn't give him a break on anything adding it up in my head. He told me he sunk $14 grand into it. Then he turned around, sold it outright in 6mo or so, (gave a local guy a good deal), ....and bought a new truck! Like I say, I've known so many people who after they make a big repair, they cut and run.

You'll have to give us feedback on how she runs after you get it back :favorites13:
 
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if you decide to delete it then the price can be cheaper on you during the replacement. how much either way is dependent on how you want the engine set up after the rebuild. these are roller engines meaning they are roller lifter's an cam's. that said there is little to no break-in after the rebuild, at least not like the flat tappet engines.
in your case i would recommenced doing the 6.4liter cam swap and tune regardless whether you keep the MDS or not.

MDS is actually not a bad system. its just that it requires a lot of maintenance and your average joe isn't on-board for that, hence the reason most fail. what Ive found is that the main reason that the mds fails, albeit beside the fact of bad materials in constrouction of, is basically a lack of maintenance. if you don't change the oil in regular intervals by hours ran and not miles, it will introduce "crud" which will clog the oil passageways which leads to premature wear due to oil starvation.

That said deleting it isn't a bad idea. your choice! personally if you use it to haul regularly then having a hp or 2 more is always useful.
 

Jeepwalker

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Drive yer truck another 5-6 years, new Ram EV looks not too bad with 500 mile range (supposedly), 4.4 sec 0-60mph. No more MDS to deal with..
 
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AlbertaRam1500

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Also, I’ve decided to swith to Redline Oil with the new cam/lifters etc. cost me $160cdn for 7 quarts. Yikes! Hope it’s worth the $$. Seems like great results from all the posts I’ve read.
So, MDS delete with new lifters, cam, retuning, timing stuff, spark plugs, aftermarket manifolds and filled with fresh Redline Oil. This truck better purr like a new kitten! Will repost with thoughts/results when I get the truck back in a few days.
 

1979PowerWagon360

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After tons of reading I'm not convinced it's the MDS. I also disagree that most go bad. But I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea either. But again, I am skeptical it means you'll never have lifter/cam failure again. I think it's much more about the Eagle Heads and meticulous maintenance and no ridiculous amounts of idle time such as the case in fleet cars. Anyway, here's some really good info IMO. Also I believe the price you were quoted is very fair! And I think it's money well spent on an otherwise good condition truck!

 

Wild one

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After tons of reading I'm not convinced it's the MDS. I also disagree that most go bad. But I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea either. But again, I am skeptical it means you'll never have lifter/cam failure again. I think it's much more about the Eagle Heads and meticulous maintenance and no ridiculous amounts of idle time such as the case in fleet cars. Anyway, here's some really good info IMO. Also I believe the price you were quoted is very fair! And I think it's money well spent on an otherwise good condition truck!

Lots of guys are hung up on the MDS lifters being the bad lifters,but that doesn't explain why the 5.7 and 6.4 manual transmission Challengers that don't have MDS still eat lifters and cam lobes. I'm not convinced MDS is all that bad,but if you do decide to delete,make sure you pull the MDS solenoids and replace them with the MDS delete plugs,so oil is still routed to the lifters properly.


 

Sherman Bird

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Ok, it’s official that a cam & lifters are going to be replaced. Shop wants to know if I’d like to delete the MDS in order to lower the risk of potential lifter failure in future. Different components + tune will be needed. Shop says it will affect my fuel economy.

My question is this…. How much fuel does the MDS system actually save? Will I notice a major decline in fuel economy? I currently get approx 650kms per tank of gas on 60/40 split of city/hwy driving. I also drive like a little old lady so I’m light on the gas. Any experiences or comments??
Point to ponder.... How much is this repair costing? 4 grand? A specific amount doesn't matter. How much fuel could you buy for the amount of a repair which ensures you'll never have to repeat the repair? Amortize that out over the cost savings in terms of gas thus far, and you'll have your answer. I'm pretty sure that you saved far less in fuel than this repair. This makes MDS a flop.
 
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AlbertaRam1500

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Point to ponder.... How much is this repair costing? 4 grand? A specific amount doesn't matter. How much fuel could you buy for the amount of a repair which ensures you'll never have to repeat the repair? Amortize that out over the cost savings in terms of gas thus far, and you'll have your answer. I'm pretty sure that you saved far less in fuel than this repair. This makes MDS a flop.
Hi Sherman Bird,

I’m by no means saying MDS delete is superior than MDS but since I need to replace the cam/lifters anyways, might as well try a different route. For those following this post, I’m not saying this will eliminate the dreaded lifter failure in the future, but I’m hoping to get another 150,000kms without repeating this repair. Also, it’s $8k not $4k, but I’m not complaining about that. I’m just curious to the fact of those that did the delete had noticed any noticeable drop in fuel mileage. Nobody drives a V8 truck to save fuel. .
 

Sherman Bird

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Hi Sherman Bird,

I’m by no means saying MDS delete is superior than MDS but since I need to replace the cam/lifters anyways, might as well try a different route. For those following this post, I’m not saying this will eliminate the dreaded lifter failure in the future, but I’m hoping to get another 150,000kms without repeating this repair. Also, it’s $8k not $4k, but I’m not complaining about that. I’m just curious to the fact of those that did the delete had noticed any noticeable drop in fuel mileage. Nobody drives a V8 truck to save fuel. .
MDS across the board was/is to placate the EPA/Gummint!
 

1979PowerWagon360

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MDS across the board was/is to placate the EPA/Gummint!
Very well may be the case. That said, I've driven several 5.7 Chargers with it and can't say I've noticed any hesitation or feeling like it was hunting for gears type feeling because of it. Pretty much instant power and very pleasurable :) I wouldn't want to spend a whole lot extra while replacing cam/lifters to delete system, but if it wasn't that costly to do I'd probably do it if I were replacing cam/lifters anyhow. Should have a newer part number for lifters, I believe ending in "AD", and therefore larger needle bearings than originally equipped.
 

tidefan1967

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Very well may be the case. That said, I've driven several 5.7 Chargers with it and can't say I've noticed any hesitation or feeling like it was hunting for gears type feeling because of it. Pretty much instant power and very pleasurable :) I wouldn't want to spend a whole lot extra while replacing cam/lifters to delete system, but if it wasn't that costly to do I'd probably do it if I were replacing cam/lifters anyhow. Should have a newer part number for lifters, I believe ending in "AD", and therefore larger needle bearings than originally equipped.
With the Charger it’s more about the drone from the exhaust than anything else. The active exhaust sounds terrible when it goes into four cylinder mode. That’s the only reason I’ve already disabled it.
 

Jnma1234

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I have often thought about this, but found out that when you click the minus button on the shifter it kicks the MDS out around town and will not let it engage. Decided to forgo a tune and just kick it out manually.
 

Okie345

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I drive about 100 miles a day on the highway at about 80, and legitimately couldn't see any difference between the eco and using manual shift to eliminate eco mode. I usually always drive without eco mode active, That's hand calculated mpg.
 
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