Mobil 1 EP VS Castrol EP

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Sherman Bird

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UOA are not based on preference. They clearly state the oil additive content and yet people choose to ignore them.
Folks are going to believe what they wish. Uncle Bob used such and such oil" or "Uncle Morris went 125,000 miles and never changed his oil"... So many anecdotal lines of reasoning abound. I choose to put WAY more stock in the teaching/ training I got at Ford and GM training schools than locker room urban legend stories!

API rating and ISLAC standards are way more germane to long engine life that "Dad's favorite brand".
 

Burla

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There are many posts about what oil is best..............but it almost seems that every person has a different preference........ In this day and age, there shouldn't have to be any posts about what filters and oil you have to run in a vehicle, as long as it is a good quality oil and a good quality filter. Why Dodge 5.7's have to run a certain filter and a certain brand of oil is absolutely foolish. Every week on here is something about oils, filters, and the dreaded cam/lifter noise?????
I can't understand why an engine would be built in this day and age that can't be idled very long (I know idling is not good for any engine), and all the other DON'T DO THINGS that people post about the 5.7. I have had remote starts on every vehicle I have owned in the last 20 years, and where I live a remote start is used daily in the winter. I have had all brands of trucks over the years, although only 2 Dodge products, and I never had to have a thought about what I have to use for oils and filter. As I said, I always used the "high end" filters from a good brand, and the same for engine oil.
If I take my 2019 1500 Classic to my Ram dealer for an oil change - they use a Mopar filter and "bulk" oil. I don't know who makes Mopar filters, but I do know for a fact from working at OEM dealerships for over 20 years that the "bulk" oil is about as consistent as the weather. Whoever gives the manufacturer the best deal for a contract is where they get their bulk oil.
I use Mobil oil and NAPA Gold filters in my truck........... The truck is 3 years old with about 18,000 miles on it, and I have got the dealer to change the oil/filter twice, and I have done it 4 times (I always change oil sooner than I am supposed to) so I sure hope the cam and lifters last----IF NOT, THIS WILL BE MY FIRST AND LAST RAM
Not buying another hemi would be a smart move, but then what would we buy? I would not buy another, if I can't make this hemi last my life I will buy a 90's ford and fix it up. I don't understand why the trucks in the 90's don't have any cam/lifter problems at all but these ones do.

Sometimes we do need to accept facts as they are yes? So if you followed the history here of hemi's that tick which sounds like an engine knock, and people that try and fix it with an oil change to certain oils, and then report the findings in a poll thread and 6-7 years of reporting it in a thread before we decided to do a poll, and both results are similar, as in the running count before the poll was 80% effective at killing engine knock and similar numbers after the poll, wouldn't that lend credibility to the fact oil choice does matter in the case of hemi's that have hemi tick? All votes are public, the running count prior was obviously public, long respected ram forum members over and over all reporting the same thing. The old notion where it simply doesnt matter no oil can fix anything is dead, but many people even here still wanna hold onto it. And yet, 80% of hemi tick engines run silent just because the owner followed other ram owners and tried a pao/ester high moly oil. Now we have long term results as well, in the worst ticking engines well over 100 rams and only one of those needed a cam/lifters are running redline 5w30? Doesnt seam possible, but indeed if you stop the tick you fix the issue. If you want something different, you need to leave the api shelf oils, your truck just isnt gonna know any difference with api oils listed m1 versus edge versus kirkland oil versus walmart oil versus amazon oil.

If you need an "expert" to explain why this strategy works, we have that as well. Now he was on the right track, but he didnt consider moly as moly is a ep additive and zddp is a aw additive, as it turns out extreme pressure additives are needed, plus polar base oil and brand chained pao oils also assist in stopping hemi knock. There is nothing wrong with oem cam/lifters, the problem is in lubrication and in most cases can be fixed with lubrication.

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Yardbird

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Here is a quote from Pennzoil reps during a question and answer thread on a well known oil forum...


*With respect to wear and cleanliness, we know no other leading motor oil provides better wear protection¹ than Pennzoil Platinum High Mileage, and no other leading high mileage motor oil provides better protection from friction² either.
¹Based on Sequence IVA wear test using SAE 5W-30.
²Based on Sequence IVA wear test using SAE 5W-30.*


This is making me think about running this oil in this weight. I had already decided to run 5w30 anyway, since most oil analysis on newer engines show that at oil change, the oil has sheared either to, or next to, the next lower viscosity.

It also appears that many oils are just inside the viscosity range when new to meet the requirements to be classified in that group.

So, a low 5/30 will soon be a 5/20., and so forth.

My owners manual says I can use 5w30 in my truck as long as it meets Chrysler's specs, which Pennzoil Platinum High Mileage 5w30 does.

This is from their website:

Chrysler MS-6395(SAE 0W-20, SAE 5W-20, SAE 5W-30, SAE 10W-30)
 

Sherman Bird

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Here is a quote from Pennzoil reps during a question and answer thread on a well known oil forum...


*With respect to wear and cleanliness, we know no other leading motor oil provides better wear protection¹ than Pennzoil Platinum High Mileage, and no other leading high mileage motor oil provides better protection from friction² either.
¹Based on Sequence IVA wear test using SAE 5W-30.
²Based on Sequence IVA wear test using SAE 5W-30.*


This is making me think about running this oil in this weight. I had already decided to run 5w30 anyway, since most oil analysis on newer engines show that at oil change, the oil has sheared either to, or next to, the next lower viscosity.

It also appears that many oils are just inside the viscosity range when new to meet the requirements to be classified in that group.

So, a low 5/30 will soon be a 5/20., and so forth.

My owners manual says I can use 5w30 in my truck as long as it meets Chrysler's specs, which Pennzoil Platinum High Mileage 5w30 does.

This is from their website:

Chrysler MS-6395(SAE 0W-20, SAE 5W-20, SAE 5W-30, SAE 10W-30)
Yeah, I've read so many publications and other notable opinions and heard so much anecdotal input about all the different oils, filters, magic lotion additives, etc. that I have reverted to what the engineers taught us at GM training school over 30 years ago... That is that the ISLAC and API ratings are mostly and generally considered to be an adequate benchmark for us peons out here in auto land!

I personally use Walmart oil because, regardless of who makes it, the API and ISLAC ratings say it is applicable for my engine's application. In 30 years, it has served me well.

It's not a perfect world in which we live. Many things are out of our control. BUT, I CAN say this: I have NEVER experienced a catastrophic engine failure when I've applied that advice from 3 decades ago.

As far as lifter failures or camshaft failures, we are left to our own devices to figure out why certain models of vehicles or engines have a higher than normal proclivity towards early destruction. I wonder about metallurgy/ hardness ratings myself.

Do I want to spend north of 70 grand on a vehicle, only to have to have lab tests done to my engine oil because the particular engine in my truck/car has been stricken rife with such negative proclivities, or be hogtied to having to use a narrow band of particular filter, oil, magic pookie additives just to HOPE it will survive to post 200K mileage use? Nope.

At some point, the laws of diminishing returns take over. I have had several customers with DOD engines in Rams and C1500's experience lifter failures. Two were very low mileage... a tad over 65,000 miles in those cases. One was GM and one was Ram. Both customers were told to pound sand by the dealers when they requested warranty assistance. The Ram owner traded his truck to another brand. The GM guy called the consumer affairs division of GM and got his repaired with a "deductible" he had to pay (It was about 1/4 of the bill.
 

Yardbird

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I had planned to run 100% synthetic oil in this truck since it is double overhead cam, mainly for durability of oil and faster delivery of oil to the cams.

The 3.6 like I have has had some rocker arm failures from what I read, and this oil is priced as well as any oil out there that is name brand, and it is Chrysler approved, though that doesn't matter much to me, and it supposedly has a good wear additive.

Mainly I'm looking for an oil that will quieten the cold start rattle the V-6 engines have. Don't know if it's timing chains, tensioners, or what. Since Chrysler chose to have a cartridge filter on top of the engine without an anti-drain back valve, I want all the start up protection I can find.

As far as oils, on my old F150 with a 300-6 and my old Ram 2500 with a V-10, I run a 50/50 blend of Delo XLE 10w30 and 15w40. This equals out to 12.5w35..lol

Both run great and use no oil. Had one for 30 years, the other for 15 years.
 

danielmid

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I had planned to run 100% synthetic oil in this truck since it is double overhead cam, mainly for durability of oil and faster delivery of oil to the cams.

The 3.6 like I have has had some rocker arm failures from what I read, and this oil is priced as well as any oil out there that is name brand, and it is Chrysler approved, though that doesn't matter much to me, and it supposedly has a good wear additive.

Mainly I'm looking for an oil that will quieten the cold start rattle the V-6 engines have. Don't know if it's timing chains, tensioners, or what. Since Chrysler chose to have a cartridge filter on top of the engine without an anti-drain back valve, I want all the start up protection I can find.

As far as oils, on my old F150 with a 300-6 and my old Ram 2500 with a V-10, I run a 50/50 blend of Delo XLE 10w30 and 15w40. This equals out to 12.5w35..lol

Both run great and use no oil. Had one for 30 years, the other for 15 years.
I use PUP 0W-20 in our V6 Durango, very happy with it, and tests well at the end of the dash life gauge.
 

Sherman Bird

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I had planned to run 100% synthetic oil in this truck since it is double overhead cam, mainly for durability of oil and faster delivery of oil to the cams.

The 3.6 like I have has had some rocker arm failures from what I read, and this oil is priced as well as any oil out there that is name brand, and it is Chrysler approved, though that doesn't matter much to me, and it supposedly has a good wear additive.

Mainly I'm looking for an oil that will quieten the cold start rattle the V-6 engines have. Don't know if it's timing chains, tensioners, or what. Since Chrysler chose to have a cartridge filter on top of the engine without an anti-drain back valve, I want all the start up protection I can find.

As far as oils, on my old F150 with a 300-6 and my old Ram 2500 with a V-10, I run a 50/50 blend of Delo XLE 10w30 and 15w40. This equals out to 12.5w35..lol

Both run great and use no oil. Had one for 30 years, the other for 15 years.
You know, I wonder just how neglectful a lot of people REALLY are when it comes to diligent attention to vehicle maintenance. When I get new customers referred to my auto repair shop, part of my interview with them IS that very question.... "Have you done all the maintenance in a timely fashion pursuant to the manufacturer's recommendation?"
Invariably, they retort " Yeah, I've had my oil changes done and 'All that stuff'".

Invariably, these are the vehicles with cabin air filters growing 1/2 inch of mold, engine air filters of the 7 dollar ilk haphazardly installed and mangled and filthy. The coolant looks like my coffee, the brake fluid is the same color.... and the serpentine belt is typically original on a vehicle well north of 100 thousand miles, among other things.

Truth is, most of the diligent guys and gals who attend to regular things and are willing to spend what it takes to keep a vehicle up do not have these problems IF they employ someone who is conscientious in plying their trade professionally, or can and do perform these tasks themselves.

We can't force people to place their vehicles at a level higher than the water heater or dishwasher. I'm constantly surprised how different vehicles are turned into junk simply as a collective of broken items and neglected repairs/ maintenance. My wife's 2007 Kia Sorento was headed for the salvage pool when a friend of mine clued me into it, knowing I was looking for her a vehicle. It was severely neglected and FILTHY inside and out. She wanted 800 for it, and we settled for 300. That was August 7th, 2019. In the 3 years since, I've put about 2 grand into it's fix up, and it is now a dependable clean vehicle.
The engine was severely sludged, and with diligence and many BG flushes, it is finally not depositing large coffee ground chunks into the filter.

My current project is another SUV similar to my wife's Sorento. It's a 2002 S-Blazer LS that I bought for 300 dollars a couple of weeks ago. It's rear brakes were totally locked up, the fronts were barely better. The brake fluid? Black and gooey. Fuel filter was clogged, and the list just goes on and on. Today, I test drove it after 21 hours of time invested and over 2 grand total in parts were replaced. It drives, and stops like a dream, cold A/C, hot heater. The prior owner turned it into junk by neglecting it.

I've bought a handful of new cars/ trucks through the years. I began all of them on regular, consistent maintenance. Not one ever let me down in any major way. But then, I'm one of those nerds who actually, literally NEVER tows in overdrive! I've never experienced trans failure either.
 

Dusty

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I think they went to 0 -20 oil to try and prevent lifter issues . Not sure but that would be my guess.Just checked owners manual and all that's listed is full synthetic 5w-20 . So that's what she'll get .
I know this is going to be silly and provocative of me to say this, but maybe they went to 0-20W to increase low temperature flow.

Regards,
Dusty
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Sherman Bird

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I know this is going to be silly and provocative of me to say this, but maybe they went to 0-20W to increase low temperature flow.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 3 June 2018. Now at 80989 miles
The major reason for water-like oil (0W16/ 0W20) was/ is for CAFE. Corporate Average Fuel Economy. The thinner oils along with low tension piston rings has made leaps and bounds improvement in fuel economy. A side benefit of this IS lower friction-borne heat.

Look in your owner's manual at what engine oil is mandated for your newer vehicle(s), and you'll likely find 0W 16, 20, 30 oils called for. Keep reading and you'll find a bar graph or print about "Severe" conditions. Kind of subjective, if you ask me.

I think living/ driving in Houston, Texas is in and of itself "Severe" conditions. Large swings in temperatures/ humidity are the norm... couple that with endurance challenging driving conditions on our freeways/ toll roads, and "Severe" is fitting.

Of interesting note, I was an engine/ driveline specialist for GM in the very late 70's into the early 80's when some braniac decided to convert the Oldsmobile 350 Gas motor into diesel. Of the many nightmarish problems which existed with that design, one was crusty, hard formations of sludge/ carbon in the piston rings, which, of course, led to engine failure. GM had a campaign for replacing the entire engine. I replaced many of them. The instructor at GM's School in Deerpark (Pasadena) Tx. was a visiting Detroit engineer who flew down to champion the class for us GM techs as to why these engines were failing in such an unexpected fashion. This class corresponded to the release of the "DX" block design 350 Diesel as to addressing the other design failures of this engine.

GM figured out that the polymer that was used in 10W40 oil for this engine was creating the carbon/ sludge problem in this and other of their gas engines as well. It was such a unique to that particular oil blend that GM specifically admonished against using 10W40 in their entire passenger car/ light tuck product line. No other oil blend caused this problem. Go figure.

So, here we are over 40 years later and we are still seeing catastrophic lubrication failures in many brands and designs. I postulate that the government fuel economy/ emissions mandates coupled with Americans' greed for power is a playing factor in the problem. When Cadillac had the V-8/6/4 fuel management systems on the gas motors, it was a HUGE fail. Mechanics everywhere were disabling this hokey system so folks could have a dependable car.

The engineering factors as opposed to physics limitations have pretty much maxed out how much efficiency we mere mortals can squeeze out of our finite BTU capacity of gasoline. These vehicles are pushed to the limits in dependability to placate both the powers that be and we Americans that just MUST Haul ass in a 6000 pound monster crew cab and still get high teen to mid 20's fuel economy. The other option is a micro car such as a Corolla. People by and large want their cake and to eat it too. The manufacturers have done pretty well in progress since those days of 40 years ago, dontcha think?
 

Dusty

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The major reason for water-like oil (0W16/ 0W20) was/ is for CAFE. Corporate Average Fuel Economy. The thinner oils along with low tension piston rings has made leaps and bounds improvement in fuel economy. A side benefit of this IS lower friction-borne heat.

Look in your owner's manual at what engine oil is mandated for your newer vehicle(s), and you'll likely find 0W 16, 20, 30 oils called for. Keep reading and you'll find a bar graph or print about "Severe" conditions. Kind of subjective, if you ask me.

I think living/ driving in Houston, Texas is in and of itself "Severe" conditions. Large swings in temperatures/ humidity are the norm... couple that with endurance challenging driving conditions on our freeways/ toll roads, and "Severe" is fitting.

Of interesting note, I was an engine/ driveline specialist for GM in the very late 70's into the early 80's when some braniac decided to convert the Oldsmobile 350 Gas motor into diesel. Of the many nightmarish problems which existed with that design, one was crusty, hard formations of sludge/ carbon in the piston rings, which, of course, led to engine failure. GM had a campaign for replacing the entire engine. I replaced many of them. The instructor at GM's School in Deerpark (Pasadena) Tx. was a visiting Detroit engineer who flew down to champion the class for us GM techs as to why these engines were failing in such an unexpected fashion. This class corresponded to the release of the "DX" block design 350 Diesel as to addressing the other design failures of this engine.

GM figured out that the polymer that was used in 10W40 oil for this engine was creating the carbon/ sludge problem in this and other of their gas engines as well. It was such a unique to that particular oil blend that GM specifically admonished against using 10W40 in their entire passenger car/ light tuck product line. No other oil blend caused this problem. Go figure.

So, here we are over 40 years later and we are still seeing catastrophic lubrication failures in many brands and designs. I postulate that the government fuel economy/ emissions mandates coupled with Americans' greed for power is a playing factor in the problem. When Cadillac had the V-8/6/4 fuel management systems on the gas motors, it was a HUGE fail. Mechanics everywhere were disabling this hokey system so folks could have a dependable car.

The engineering factors as opposed to physics limitations have pretty much maxed out how much efficiency we mere mortals can squeeze out of our finite BTU capacity of gasoline. These vehicles are pushed to the limits in dependability to placate both the powers that be and we Americans that just MUST Haul ass in a 6000 pound monster crew cab and still get high teen to mid 20's fuel economy. The other option is a micro car such as a Corolla. People by and large want their cake and to eat it too. The manufacturers have done pretty well in progress since those days of 40 years ago, dontcha think?
Like you, I owe a large part of my automotive technology knowledge to General Motors Institute training. I might occasionally pride myself on my technical ability, but I won’t try to present my opinions as an authority. One thing I learned about troubleshooting is to be careful of mindset bias developed over time by seeing a particular issue always brought on by the same cause. Sometimes you might see a symptom where the cause does not match your previous or general experiences. This might be one of those cases.

While it is true that the major shift of using lower viscosity motor oils has been to reduce internal frictions and increase performance, changing oil specification does not necessarily preclude doing so for other reasons. Assumptions are easy. I suspect in the case of changing from 5W-20 to 0W-20 may be the case in this instance.

In most cases 0W motor oils offer a lower pour point advantage when compared to the 5W-20 equivalent in the same family of oils. It should be noted that in this instance Ram hasn’t changed the upper specification (20 wt.), just the lower. While there may indeed be a reduction of parasitic losses by going to a 0W oil, without any further input I suspect it would be minor enough that the reasons are elsewhere. I will not try to second guess the engineers, they have technical abilities far above mine. Perhaps mindful of field concerns, they MAY have discovered a cold flow issue and for that reason have changed the specification.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 3 June 2018. Now at 81041 miles
 

ramffml

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Like you, I owe a large part of my automotive technology knowledge to General Motors Institute training. I might occasionally pride myself on my technical ability, but I won’t try to present my opinions as an authority. One thing I learned about troubleshooting is to be careful of mindset bias developed over time by seeing a particular issue always brought on by the same cause. Sometimes you might see a symptom where the cause does not match your previous or general experiences. This might be one of those cases.

While it is true that the major shift of using lower viscosity motor oils has been to reduce internal frictions and increase performance, changing oil specification does not necessarily preclude doing so for other reasons. Assumptions are easy. I suspect in the case of changing from 5W-20 to 0W-20 may be the case in this instance.

In most cases 0W motor oils offer a lower pour point advantage when compared to the 5W-20 equivalent in the same family of oils. It should be noted that in this instance Ram hasn’t changed the upper specification (20 wt.), just the lower. While there may indeed be a reduction of parasitic losses by going to a 0W oil, without any further input I suspect it would be minor enough that the reasons are elsewhere. I will not try to second guess the engineers, they have technical abilities far above mine. Perhaps mindful of field concerns, they MAY have discovered a cold flow issue and for that reason have changed the specification.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 3 June 2018. Now at 81041 miles

Yep, that's why I cover my bases due to living in snowing winter weather and run Redline/HPL 0W-30. Good cold weather pour point, and all while (hopefully) retaining that 30 weight hot-weather-towing goodness.

Should be covered if the reduction is due to a cold flow issue. But my money is on MPG as well. MPG has literally been driving the slow march downwards in the auto industry as a whole, with Toyota experimenting with 0w-16 etc.
 

Sherman Bird

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Like you, I owe a large part of my automotive technology knowledge to General Motors Institute training. I might occasionally pride myself on my technical ability, but I won’t try to present my opinions as an authority. One thing I learned about troubleshooting is to be careful of mindset bias developed over time by seeing a particular issue always brought on by the same cause. Sometimes you might see a symptom where the cause does not match your previous or general experiences. This might be one of those cases.

While it is true that the major shift of using lower viscosity motor oils has been to reduce internal frictions and increase performance, changing oil specification does not necessarily preclude doing so for other reasons. Assumptions are easy. I suspect in the case of changing from 5W-20 to 0W-20 may be the case in this instance.

In most cases 0W motor oils offer a lower pour point advantage when compared to the 5W-20 equivalent in the same family of oils. It should be noted that in this instance Ram hasn’t changed the upper specification (20 wt.), just the lower. While there may indeed be a reduction of parasitic losses by going to a 0W oil, without any further input I suspect it would be minor enough that the reasons are elsewhere. I will not try to second guess the engineers, they have technical abilities far above mine. Perhaps mindful of field concerns, they MAY have discovered a cold flow issue and for that reason have changed the specification.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 3 June 2018. Now at 81041 miles
The Zero before the "W" is the cold flow viscosity rating at zero degrees celsius, I think? The oil spends very little of it's time/life at that state. The second number is the warm/hot viscosity. Those numbers are but a small part of the equation. There has been very advanced changes in oil formulation to combat heat and contamination also.

As for preconceived notions, I've had them bite me in the backside many times in my diagnostic career. It's human nature to categorize problems into patterns, or similar symptoms/ cures.

I've done well over my 47 year career. My father's tautology about reading instructions, developing diagnostic strategy, etc. has served me well. He was a systems computer engineer for IBM. To quote him "Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good"!
 

Wild one

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The Zero before the "W" is the cold flow viscosity rating at zero degrees celsius, I think? The oil spends very little of it's time/life at that state. The second number is the warm/hot viscosity. Those numbers are but a small part of the equation. There has been very advanced changes in oil formulation to combat heat and contamination also.

As for preconceived notions, I've had them bite me in the backside many times in my diagnostic career. It's human nature to categorize problems into patterns, or similar symptoms/ cures.

I've done well over my 47 year career. My father's tautology about reading instructions, developing diagnostic strategy, etc. has served me well. He was a systems computer engineer for IBM. To quote him "Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good"!
A whole lot of the world still lives where it can be -20 or colder,and it can take quite a few miles of driving before the oil temp will even get to 100F or where it'll even read an oil temp,especially if the vehicle isn't plugged in.My next door neighbour and i are the oddballs on my street,as we're about the only ones who plug our vehicles in,and he doesn't plug his into until it's about -10,the majority of people are adverse to plugging a vehicle in,do to the costs involved,a block heater plugged in overnight for a week or 2 will definitely add to your power bill. I can guarantee, they'll make several miles at 70 mph,before they'll have any noticiable heat in the oil. So i'll have to disagree with your comment about the oil spending very little time in a cold state,maybe in Texas/California/Arizona it won't,but not everybody lives in those climates
 

Dusty

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A whole lot of the world still lives where it can be -20 or colder,and it can take quite a few miles of driving before the oil temp will even get to 100F or where it'll even read an oil temp,especially if the vehicle isn't plugged in.My next door neighbour and i are the oddballs on my street,as we're about the only ones who plug our vehicles in,and he doesn't plug his into until it's about -10,the majority of people are adverse to plugging a vehicle in,do to the costs involved,a block heater plugged in overnight for a week or 2 will definitely add to your power bill. I can guarantee, they'll make several miles at 70 mph,before they'll have any noticiable heat in the oil. So i'll have to disagree with your comment about the oil spending very little time in a cold state,maybe in Texas/California/Arizona it won't,but not everybody lives in those climates
"Very little time" is not well defined, but after sitting overnight at minus degrees I think you'll find that there's very little oil film left on the cam lobes, as an example, when the engine starts to spin. It is not a new concept that more wear occurs during the period of a cold start than after the engine is warmed. Oil flow is extremely critical in cold start situations.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 3 June 2018. Now at 81097 miles
 

Sherman Bird

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Aven get to 100F or where it'll even read an oil temp,especially if the vehicle isn't plugged in.My next door neighbour and i are the oddballs on my street,as we're about the only ones who plug our vehicles in,and he doesn't plug his into until it's about -10,the majority of people are adverse to plugging a vehicle in,do to the costs involved,a block heater plugged in overnight for a week or 2 will definitely add to your power bill. I can guarantee, they'll make several miles at 70 mph,before they'll have any noticiable heat in the oil. So i'll have to disagree with your comment about the oil spending very little time in a cold state,maybe in Texas/California/Arizona it won't,but not everybody lives in those climates
Yo
 
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turkeybird56

Military Vet 1976-1996 Retired US Army
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"Very little time" is not well defined, but after sitting overnight at minus degrees I think you'll find that there's very little oil film left on the cam lobes, as an example, when the engine starts to spin. It is not a new concept that more wear occurs during the period of a cold start than after the engine is warmed. Oil flow is extremely critical in cold start situations.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 3 June 2018. Now at 81097 miles
Many moons ago in a Cold land far far away Upstate NY, when working on flightline, all vehicles were plugged in. Was a requirement and every parking spot had a plug in pole. In a certain area where I was working, we had 3 Monstrous Diesel Motors started by Air Pressure to provide emergency electricity. When it was cold, and we lost power, we had to start those babies up to get power. Even though we were not CE, we were required to get trained and know how to start and put on line, etc. We had big monster metal poles, kinda size of normal fence poles on a metal fence and had to literally turn over each engine 3 complete revolutions' to break and move the oil before we could start those monster diesels. Oh, the memories, LOL. Of course, getting the lil friggin over sized air compressor started to get number 1 diesel to turn over was always a PITA also (we beld air off of number 1 to start the other 2 gen motors, but still had to bar them 3 revolutions). It was just that cold and oil that thick and would not turn over by air pressure till we turned them 3 times, kinda like propellers on some old time acft also.
 

turkeybird56

Military Vet 1976-1996 Retired US Army
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You are absolutely correct.... I live in a subtropic climate. When we saw 9 degrees F. in February of 2021 during the "deep freeze" which killed Texas' power grid, I thought how fortunate for me not to live where it gets that cold. The last hard freeze like that which really affected my life was the week between New Year and Christmas in 1989. We had 6 degree weather for a week straight with -20 wind chills. I do not do cold weather. Born and raised in Houston.

That being said, the real gorilla in the room is something called "stiction". Stiction elimination is really what's important. They have it down pretty good as compared to 40 years ago in terms of low temp flow. My hypothesis on the matter is that stiction combined with poor metallurgy is why cam lobes go flat. The Triton 5.4L Ford engines have the roller/ cam failures too.... and they do not have Active Fuel or Displacement on Demand, or whatever cute term each manufacturer applies to the same system.

A few years ago, an acquaintance of mine had a cam lobe go flat on his 2006 Jeep 4.0L inline 6 engine at just over 60,000 miles. He was dumbfounded that this had occurred, because he had used Mobil1 every 3,000 miles since he bought the vehicle brand new.
Houston, sub tropic, roflmao. My now deceased wife delivered auto parts in Houston South side for a lot of years. I cannot type what she called Houston, roflmao.
 

Wild one

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You are absolutely correct.... I live in a subtropic climate. When we saw 9 degrees F. in February of 2021 during the "deep freeze" which killed Texas' power grid, I thought how fortunate for me not to live where it gets that cold. The last hard freeze like that which really affected my life was the week between New Year and Christmas in 1989. We had 6 degree weather for a week straight with -20 wind chills. I do not do cold weather. Born and raised in Houston.

That being said, the real gorilla in the room is something called "stiction". Stiction elimination is really what's important. They have it down pretty good as compared to 40 years ago in terms of low temp flow. My hypothesis on the matter is that stiction combined with poor metallurgy is why cam lobes go flat. The Triton 5.4L Ford engines have the roller/ cam failures too.... and they do not have Active Fuel or Displacement on Demand, or whatever cute term each manufacturer applies to the same system.

A few years ago, an acquaintance of mine had a cam lobe go flat on his 2006 Jeep 4.0L inline 6 engine at just over 60,000 miles. He was dumbfounded that this had occurred, because he had used Mobil1 every 3,000 miles since he bought the vehicle brand new.
When catalytic convertors came on board is when oils started to go downhill,and i'm not so sure they've recovered as much as we think.If the EPA/Cafe and the tree huggers were taken out of the mix,i think the oil companies would have more freedom to give us oils that would be superior to what we have now.I don't actually think the oils of today are as good at keeping engines alive as we'd like to think they do.The oils of yesterday would keep flat tappet cams alive,the stuff we call oil now,won't keep a flat tappet cam alive,for the most part.
 

Dusty

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You are absolutely correct.... I live in a subtropic climate. When we saw 9 degrees F. in February of 2021 during the "deep freeze" which killed Texas' power grid, I thought how fortunate for me not to live where it gets that cold. The last hard freeze like that which really affected my life was the week between New Year and Christmas in 1989. We had 6 degree weather for a week straight with -20 wind chills. I do not do cold weather. Born and raised in Houston.

That being said, the real gorilla in the room is something called "stiction". Stiction elimination is really what's important. They have it down pretty good as compared to 40 years ago in terms of low temp flow. My hypothesis on the matter is that stiction combined with poor metallurgy is why cam lobes go flat. The Triton 5.4L Ford engines have the roller/ cam failures too.... and they do not have Active Fuel or Displacement on Demand, or whatever cute term each manufacturer applies to the same system.

A few years ago, an acquaintance of mine had a cam lobe go flat on his 2006 Jeep 4.0L inline 6 engine at just over 60,000 miles. He was dumbfounded that this had occurred, because he had used Mobil1 every 3,000 miles since he bought the vehicle brand new.
In automotive terms, stiction represents the initial force required to begin the movement of a rolling component as it rotates on another metallic surface. This describes an effect directly related to roller lifter/cam designs.

If you completely eliminate stiction, the lifter roller may not rotate, and therefor drag across the cam lobe, if only momentarily. This could cause galling. Extraneous efforts to reduce friction for some components in a IC engine, may actually produce a wear problem in another area.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 3 June 2018. Now at 81111 miles
 
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