MoPar nightmare...what would you do?

[SSEC]

I bought my Ram 2500 6.4L Hemi the end of May 2021. It was a private sale, but the truck was babied by the previous owner (full file of service records, all done at the dealer) and only had 47,500 miles on it. It ran great for about 800 miles, pulling a trailer, hauling feed, and all the other truck things it was supposed to do. Then a ticking noise started. I immediately took it to our local Ram dealer, who had serviced the truck all its life. They called me back a few days later to tell me that the noise was coming from the engine, and the truck would likely need a NEW ENGINE, at an expense of $15,000. Lucky me, we transferred the Mopar extended warranty, which is still good until December of this year, so the repairs SHOULD be covered. In September the dealer broke down the engine to confirm there was a faulty part (2 bad heads). We wait a few days for a Mopar rep to confirm that said part is broken and authorize the repair. We wait 2 WEEKS until the dealer can get the parts to fix it. We also replace the lifters right away on our dime, hoping to avoid that known failure down the line. They do so, and another week later the engine is reassembled and back in the truck, only its still making the same noise. The dealer again recommends a new engine and says they have a Mopar rep coming out to confirm in the next 24-28 hours. That was THREE WEEKS AGO. We have had numerous service managers at the dealership call for someone to approve the repair, and each time they are told another 24-48 hours. Now it is over 2 months since I last drove my truck, 3 weeks that the engine is out of it, and I feel like my hands are tied. Dealer and Mopar are very aware this is a vehicle that I need for work. I have not been given a loaner vehicle, since they only compensate for $175 of rental, and who rents out a 2500 truck for that price even on a daily rate? Dealer says they are waiting on Mopar. Mopar said yesterday they are waiting on dealer to diagnose issue. I had the dealer call Mopar AGAIN, to tell them AGAIN, what the issue is. Mopar tells me I should not be calling them, the dealer needs to. Meanwhile, the Mopar service rep that was AGAIN promised to be out there yesterday never showed up. Everyone is laying the blame on everything else, saying their hands are tied, while my truck is sitting engineless rusting in the dealer parking lot. So, what would you do? What are my options at this point?
A) Suck it up and spend the $15000 out of pocket and have the dealer fix the d--- engine? They even have one reserved for me if we get this repair approved before someone else claims it.
B) Keep nagging dealer and Mopar until they get it fixed?
C) Put the broken engine back in and drive it till it breaks down? (Ok, getting sarcastic here...but seriously, I need my truck back.)
D) Buy another truck to drive around until maybe, one day, this truck gets repaired, and then as soon as it is, sell it and never ever buy another Ram or Chrysler vehicle ever again?
E) Pray one of you has more options or the number of someone I can call that is actually going to get this done.

I hope someone is out there that has navigated this customer service minefield in the past with some success. Any recommendations (other than be patient) welcome.

EDIT: Second tear-down of engine revealed cylinder #7 is bad. Repair #1 also involved the replacement of both exhaust manifolds. The issue here is not in diagnosis, but in the fact that the dealer can't seem to get a Mopar Representative to even look at the truck to deny/approve the repair. This is still ongoing as of Oct 28.

 

[2012RAM1500RT]

December is coming fast, I hate to say it but you may need to get some advice from a lawyer!

 

[corneileous]

So why did they even screw around with the cylinder heads if they were already talking that you might need a new engine in the first place? And if you’ve got warranty, why would the new engine cost have to come out of your pocket?

 

[Burla]

Usually hemi tick doesnt mean new engine, and I say every single time someone opts to replace lifters that much of the time that will not fix hemi tick even if it is lifter tick. Happens all the time man, if no misfire code your good, we'll figure it out with 80% success rate. But first finish the process with the dealer see what happens. Search hemi tick threads on the board, the lubrication fixes have been posted 1,000 times plus. By chance if you can download a youtube I will happily listen to it with noise canceling headphones, see what I can fathom. If you youtube it, please place recording device underneath engine in park at warm idle, after you go somewhere engine nice and warm.

I also can't count how many times 2500's needed heads, very common, It is likely someone towed with it and cool down fast in winter months, it is not uncommon and to be honest likely why the guy wanted to get rid of it. It's almost a maintenance item on many 2500's. Good for you, you have all new stuff and the only issue is hemi tick? Do not threat partner, there are moves to be made, first see what dealer does. You are in the right place, the one single place on the net that has had 100's of guys just like you test some stuff and come up with answers. keep us posted.

warranty is up soon, but they own this fix legally for some time past that, dont know for sure how long, depends on locally and dealer policy.

 

[corneileous]

Also, since you said the previous owner has detailed records of all the services and maintenances done at the dealer, I’m sure they were using the recommended 0W40 Pennzoil ultra platinum which is actually a pretty good engine oil, what kind of intervals was the previous owner going by when he had the oil changed? I’m not actually sure what’s truly recommended for the 392 hemi but at least when it comes to the 5.7L hemi, a lot of people still swear by not letting your oil changes go past six or 7000 miles even if you are using a really good oil.

 

[Mister Luck]

Your frustration has to be inconceivable

I would just buy a ****** truck to hold you through until the dust settles

The truck must hold some value or you wouldn’t have bought it
remember these are significantly different times we are living in an patience is more than a virtue I would play it cool and document everything that goes down but keep drama out of picture since you basically are at the will of the dealership

You are bleeding money though this obviously and the sharks are circling
You could just sell it to the dealer for a loss or trade it for a down on a new truck
I would just buy a reasonably older vehicle if you need one for work just to get you by and hope you haven’t already gotten a scent of desperation in the water.

****** = B, E , A, T, E, R

 

[Burla]

By chance do you have old lifters? and you didnt do cam? it would be good to see lifters, to bad they werent marked for each cylinder, but it would be beneficial to see lifter sides and considering of needle bearings and rollers.

 

[retired]

@RamCares

 

[Dodge 1500 4X4]

With a bad cam, you may not get a misfire, that's probably the ticking he's getting right now, did they replace all of the lifters, We really need to hear it, It could be lower end, meaning wrist pin or rod bearing, how's the oil pressure been before and after they worked on it the first time, my heart goes out to you they are Cluster fn you right now!!!

 

[SSEC]

By chance do you have old lifters? and you didnt do cam? it would be good to see lifters, to bad they werent marked for each cylinder, but it would be beneficial to see lifter sides and considering of needle bearings and rollers.

When they took the engine apart the first time they didn't find anything wrong with the lifters or cam, which is what was originally suspected. We opted to pay out of pocket to have new ones put in anyway, since we could find plenty on google saying that's a known issue and didn't want to have to rip the engine apart a second time (haha). The new diagnosis is the #7 cylinder is bad, which is why dealer is now saying new engine. I guess they can't fix that in their shop? Now why they didn't find that in the first tear-down is a great question.

 

[SSEC]

December is coming fast, I hate to say it but you may need to get some advice from a lawyer!

I've thought that too. I'm hoping this delay isn't so they can say "Oh, well your warranty expired". They and the dealer both have records that this started well before warranty expiration and is not resolved, so if it comes to that they won't have a leg to stand on.

 

[SSEC]

Usually hemi tick doesnt mean new engine, and I say every single time someone opts to replace lifters that much of the time that will not fix hemi tick even if it is lifter tick. Happens all the time man, if no misfire code your good, we'll figure it out with 80% success rate. But first finish the process with the dealer see what happens. Search hemi tick threads on the board, the lubrication fixes have been posted 1,000 times plus. By chance if you can download a youtube I will happily listen to it with noise canceling headphones, see what I can fathom. If you youtube it, please place recording device underneath engine in park at warm idle, after you go somewhere engine nice and warm.

I also can't count how many times 2500's needed heads, very common, It is likely someone towed with it and cool down fast in winter months, it is not uncommon and to be honest likely why the guy wanted to get rid of it. It's almost a maintenance item on many 2500's. Good for you, you have all new stuff and the only issue is hemi tick? Do not threat partner, there are moves to be made, first see what dealer does. You are in the right place, the one single place on the net that has had 100's of guys just like you test some stuff and come up with answers. keep us posted.

warranty is up soon, but they own this fix legally for some time past that, dont know for sure how long, depends on locally and dealer policy.

I should have added that the latest issue, found after the second engine tear-down, is that the #7 cylinder is bad. How common is that? My impression from the dealer is that they just don't have the ability to repair the cylinder, nor do they want to since the engine has multi-point failure at this point. Thus why we wait on the warranty company.

 

[SSEC]

Your frustration has to be inconceivable

I would just buy a ****** truck to hold you through until the dust settles

The truck must hold some value or you wouldn’t have bought it
remember these are significantly different times we are living in an patience is more than a virtue I would play it cool and document everything that goes down but keep drama out of picture since you basically are at the will of the dealership

You are bleeding money though this obviously and the sharks are circling
You could just sell it to the dealer for a loss or trade it for a down on a new truck
I would just buy a reasonably older vehicle if you need one for work just to get you by and hope you haven’t already gotten a scent of desperation in the water.

****** = B, E , A, T, E, R

This is the other interesting part of this.... I asked the dealer day 1 when they said "new engine" what the trade-in value for the truck would be as-is and post-repair. I never did get an answer. Interesting, right? I certainly wouldn't buy a truck at this point from this dealer anyway, and definitely not another Ram. The big problem in my area is even finding a truck that's a 2500+; that's why I bought this one privately in the first place! Dealer lots are empty.

 

[SSEC]

Also, since you said the previous owner has detailed records of all the services and maintenances done at the dealer, I’m sure they were using the recommended 0W40 Pennzoil ultra platinum which is actually a pretty good engine oil, what kind of intervals was the previous owner going by when he had the oil changed? I’m not actually sure what’s truly recommended for the 392 hemi but at least when it comes to the 5.7L hemi, a lot of people still swear by not letting your oil changes go past six or 7000 miles even if you are using a really good oil.

So you had me make a spreadsheet of all the old receipts and work done (which will be handy if the warranty co gives us crap), and yes, that is the oil they used and he had it changed usually around the 6000 mile mark. And the dealer did the work every time.

 

[Burla]

I should have added that the latest issue, found after the second engine tear-down, is that the #7 cylinder is bad. How common is that? My impression from the dealer is that they just don't have the ability to repair the cylinder, nor do they want to since the engine has multi-point failure at this point. Thus why we wait on the warranty company.

very rare, so rare I question the info. But, it really sounds like you are being taken care of, so far there has been no refusal to repair, sorry if I missed it. Just not happy with delays? No way I'd take some trade offer, they will see you desperate and give you turkey bucks, wait this out, you will be fine unless I missed something?

I still think if this works out you will have a truck way better then when you bought it. Patience. Once it works itself out, you can chose to sell it for big bucks with a new engine, or keep it. Maintenance records doesnt tell the entire story, some guys don't know how to cool engines after towing or while towing, leads to issues especially in cold places like Penn. Hemi's are great, but their are not Cummins, anyone towing should consider Cummins if they don't want to fuss with stuff like heads once in a while. I would bet a fair penny the original owner new of this issue and sold it to you like this, but at least you have warranty backing, most people don't. This can work out great I hope.


.

 

[Jeepwalker]

Also have someone there lay a straight-edge across the exhaust manifolds asap. They warp all the time and break manifold bolts which results in a 'tic' that sounds a lot like a lifter tic (but it's an exhaust leak). The solution is to have the exhaust manifolds machined flat or belt sanded flat. Replacing the manifold with new will only result in more warped manifolds. The consensus is to machine the old ones (they won't warp again after that). They almost all warp, so it wouldn't be out of line if yours were warped. Actually it would be out of line if they WEREN'T warped. Don't put them back on w/o addressing that situation if it exists.

Hope you get your tk back soon. Sorry, I don't have any advice or guidance for you. Seems you've already done what I would have done. You could get ahold of RamCares and see if they'll go to work for you.

 

[SSEC]

very rare, so rare I question the info. But, it really sounds like you are being taken care of, so far there has been no refusal to repair, sorry if I missed it. Just not happy with delays? No way I'd take some trade offer, they will see you desperate and give you turkey bucks, wait this out, you will be fine unless I missed something?

I still think if this works out you will have a truck way better then when you bought it. Patience. Once it works itself out, you can chose to sell it for big bucks with a new engine, or keep it. Maintenance records doesnt tell the entire story, some guys don't know how to cool engines after towing or while towing, leads to issues especially in cold places like Penn. Hemi's are great, but their are not Cummins, anyone towing should consider Cummins if they don't want to fuss with stuff like heads once in a while. I would bet a fair penny the original owner new of this issue and sold it to you like this, but at least you have warranty backing, most people don't. This can work out great I hope.


.

Hey, thanks for the optimistic outlook. That at least is helpful. I'm just frustrated that its been 3 weeks, and we know what the issue is and can't fix it because we're waiting on Mopar to approve.

 

[SSEC]

Also have someone there lay a straight-edge across the exhaust manifolds asap. They warp all the time and break manifold bolts which results in a 'tic' that sounds a lot like a lifter tic (but it's an exhaust leak). The solution is to have the exhaust manifolds machined flat or belt sanded flat. Replacing the manifold with new will only result in more warped manifolds. The consensus is to machine the old ones (they won't warp again after that). They almost all warp, so it wouldn't be out of line if yours were warped. Actually it would be out of line if they WEREN'T warped. Don't put them back on w/o addressing that situation if it exists.

Hope you get your tk back soon. Sorry, I don't have any advice or guidance for you. Seems you've already done what I would have done. You could get ahold of RamCares and see if they'll go to work for you.

You brought up an interesting point with exhaust manifolds, so I double checked and they did replace both exhaust manifolds with the first round of repairs. They were warped. But noise is still there and coming from lower engine cylinder 7. The good part of all this from what people are saying on here is that the dealer is on their game and doing everything that needs to be done. Now I just need Mopar to approve the repairs so the dealer can actually do them! Thanks for the feedback though.
I just heard of RamCares today and looked into their policies. It looks like they will cover/help for a fee if you have a 2015 truck, but I wonder since this is now a pre-existing condition how much help they would be? I get the impression they don't handle repairs but would they help with dealer/Mopar communication? Have you used them before?

 

[aces-n-eights]

"RamCares" is a member on this forum - link this thread to them and see if they can help.

 

[Jeepwalker]

Check the new pair of manifolds then. It seems they all warp. Then the metal find's it's form and they don't warp again after that. The new ones probably didn't have enough heat/cool cycles to warp (yet), but if they did, get them machined (not replaced).

Maybe #7 cyl was dead due to a valve issue? Or did they say piston/rings/etc?