Non ethanol mpg and performance

[markabby]

i sometimes will mix non ethanol with a half tank of 87. no problems. my theory is i'm reducing the ethanol content.

 

[Burla]

That has gone down a little with my new tires (another story). I think these Toyo tires have a little more rolling resistance then the OEM tires.

New street or offroad tires always grip more, especially high quality tires like toyo. Plus, about any tire would grip better then OEM. However, I can say first hand as tires wear mpg's should come back at least get better. My brand new rain tires on a rav 4 was 2-3 solid mpg's less, and then it came back about 6k miles later. My OEM tires where the bain of my existence from day one breaking traction when no other tire would, tried to milk them as long as I could.

 

[Tulecreeper]

It depends. Some 91/93 fuels do not contain ethanol. I can tell the difference in my Charger that's tuned to 93 which ones don't contain ethanol. I try and get gas from those stations instead because its like using rocket fuel.

On the flip side before the Charger I had an Impala that could take E85. I switched to using that when gas prices were high, but my range dropped. Although it was cheaper than regular gas at the time, if you did the math and factored in range vs cost, it seldomly made sense. There was a break-even point with E85 at like $4.30. If gas went higher than that, I'd save by using E85. It didn't happen very often.

$4.30...a gallon? I'd move elsewhere. It's $3.29 here, vice $2.39 where we lived in AR and I think this is outrageously high.

 

[CaptOchs]

$4.30...a gallon? I'd move elsewhere. It's $3.29 here, vice $2.39 where we lived in AR and I think this is outrageously high.

This was years ago!

 

[97RedRam]

Been running no corn for years and it definitely gives better mileage AND more power.

 

[oe542bob]

‘22 1500 hemi eTorque 3.92s. I live in eastern PA. A little over a year ago I tried non E fuel from WaWa. 89 Octane non E versus 87 with Ethanol. Driving the same route of 104 miles round trip 7 days a week. 50% 2 lane,50% highway. I did notice a slight increase in mileage but till I figured the Regular gas with ethanol vs. the cost of 89 non E, it was costing more $. I just run 87 E fuel.

 

[Dusty]

I had tried comparing 87 to 89 and could never determine a difference in day-to-day driving. That's because I (and most) people never drive the same day-to-day, with different numbers of stops and speeds over different roads.

However, I learned my lesson with lawn mowers, chainsaws, and ATVs, never to use ethanol fuels again! Unfortunately, I've discovered that fewer gas stations are carrying it around here.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 121303 miles.

 

[rule18]

I had tried comparing 87 to 89 and could never determine a difference in day-to-day driving. That's because I (and most) people never drive the same day-to-day, with different numbers of stops and speeds over different roads.

However, I learned my lesson with lawn mowers, chainsaws, and ATVs, never to use ethanol fuels again! Unfortunately, I've discovered that fewer gas stations are carrying it around here.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 121303 miles.

You guys have Stewarts Shops up there, no? Many of them carry corn-free in their 91 octane. If not, I found these:

 

[Sherman Bird]

This has probably been talked about already, but I didn't see a thread specifically about non ethanol gas. I have a 22 1500 4x4 3.92 with a quad cab, 54K miles. I'm in Florida and gas has been a little tough to come by for a little bit. I've pretty much been running 93 octane most of the time. My mpg has been around 16.5 mixed driving (dash display). That has gone down a little with my new tires (another story). I think these Toyo tires have a little more rolling resistance then the OEM tires.

Anyway, while trying to fill up, Wawa only had non ethanal at the time, 89 octane. The price was about what premium 93 would have been, so I figured I'd get that. I noticed quite the boost! More/quicker response from the start and my mpg is over 18, in mixed driving. I'm halfway through my second tank full, and the mileage and pep are holding up.

My question is, have others switched to non ethanol as your go-to gas and have you seen similar results? I didn't think 10% ethanol would make that much a difference, but it seems to. I think I'll be doing non ethanol when I can for now one.

David

I would advise caution about LSPI. This is kind of a misnomer. LSPI stands for "Low Speed Pre Ignition". The low speed alludes to the speed of the piston at or near TDC during the compression, or "power stroke". At this point, the speed of the piston is slower and does come to a stop as it changes direction from upstroke to downstroke. When this occurs right after an upshift, load increases dramatically. This is one main reason that CVT transmissions were brought back. The weight and power of a truck would turn a CVT trans into mush post haste, thus, the truck still uses a Simpson design automatic transmission.

Ethanol boosts octane, thus helps to alleviate LSPI. Again, you cannot perceive LSPI unless it gets really bad, but even imperceptible preignition can and will damage or break a piston. So, it is possible (not saying that it is) that the ethanol-free gas might boost power, but possibly at the expense of longevity.

Once again, I'll say that the manufacturer fuel requirements are made for a reason. There are some oils that help reduce LSPI, (The Motor Oil Geek on You Tube Tells all to know abut that). Be careful that you aren't jumping over a dollar to save a penny.

 

[Kickboxer]

I go back and forth between 99 corn-free and 93 e10. I experienced the same feeling of torque increase with the e free gas.

I also use it in all of my yard equipment and toys.

Prior to using e-free gas in my carb'd KTM, I would experience regular carb clogging that required cleaning.

For those that use this fuel in powersports requiring higher octane than 89 or 90, I've use a product called Torco to bring the octane # up to about 95. I've used this mixture in a race only r6 for three seasons with great results. That bike lives above 12k rpms!

Your post is deceptive. You can buy 87 octane 10% blended ethanol gas or 91 Octane pure petroleum gasoline in ND. Don't play games with your 99 and 93 thing, not sure why you go there, look at the label on the pump. Mn has an ethanol mandate in
every gallon.

And then there are blender pumps where you can use much more
ethanol, up to E85, choices for everyone.

 

[Dusty]

You guys have Stewarts Shops up there, no? Many of them carry corn-free in their 91 octane. If not, I found these:

View attachment 553665

Thank you, sir!

I'm on the east side of Rochester (Fairport, Penfield, Webster, and Wayne County). There use to be two Mobil's that carried it in Webster, one in Penfield and Fairport each. Now i have to go more east to Williamson, NY, although not that far away. No Stewarts shops to my knowledge.

My property in the Southerntier, about 125 miles south of me, has it all over the place.

Nice list. Thank you again.

Best regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 121341 miles.

 

[rule18]

Thank you, sir!

I'm on the east side of Rochester (Fairport, Penfield, Webster, and Wayne County). There use to be two Mobil's that carried it in Webster, one in Penfield and Fairport each. Now i have to go more east to Williamson, NY, although not that far away. No Stewarts shops to my knowledge.

My property in the Southerntier, about 125 miles south of me, has it all over the place.

Nice list. Thank you again.

Best regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 121341 miles.

Any time. I snipped it off here https://www.pure-gas.org/

 

[DanAR]

I had tried comparing 87 to 89 and could never determine a difference in day-to-day driving. That's because I (and most) people never drive the same day-to-day, with different numbers of stops and speeds over different roads.

However, I learned my lesson with lawn mowers, chainsaws, and ATVs, never to use ethanol fuels again! Unfortunately, I've discovered that fewer gas stations are carrying it around here.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 121303 miles.

Strange, as non-ethanol fuel is getting much more common here. Walmarts and many other stations are now carrying it around the Little Rock vicinity.

 

[Daviddnv]

Once again, I'll say that the manufacturer fuel requirements are made for a reason. There are some oils that help reduce LSPI, (The Motor Oil Geek on You Tube Tells all to know abut that). Be careful that you aren't jumping over a dollar to save a penny.

Agree 100%. And non-ethanol seems to meet the manufacture's fuel requirements.

Right from the manual:

 

[Sherman Bird]

Agree 100%. And non-ethanol seems to meet the manufacture's fuel requirements.

Right from the manual:
View attachment 553719

I find the "0-15%" range a bit mysterious. Is that a sliding scale? Or something else?
Around these parts, the gas pumps state that the fuel contains 10% Ethanol.
I'm also aware that there are several different additives that vary among fuel companies.
Either way, since I'm out here in the trenches, so to speak, I can tell if someone IS using a lesser brand (non-top tier) brand fuel by the use of a scanner and by pulling a spark plug and looking at deposits on it.

I also wonder if the page YOU show is or isn't accompanied by some print narrative in that section guiding as to when to use which choice is listed. (e.g. different weight of oil depending on temperature (summer/winter) and/ or the oh-so-subjective term "Severe Use".

 

[Curmudgeon]

I find the "0-15%" range a bit mysterious. Is that a sliding scale? Or something else?
Around these parts, the gas pumps state that the fuel contains 10% Ethanol.
I'm also aware that there are several different additives that vary among fuel companies.
Either way, since I'm out here in the trenches, so to speak, I can tell if someone IS using a lesser brand (non-top tier) brand fuel by the use of a scanner and by pulling a spark plug and looking at deposits on it.

I also wonder if the page YOU show is or isn't accompanied by some print narrative in that section guiding as to when to use which choice is listed. (e.g. different weight of oil depending on temperature (summer/winter) and/ or the oh-so-subjective term "Severe Use".

A minor point, and perhaps just indicative of different markets, but here in the Mid-Altantic, and during my travels throughout that region, all pumps have a label that
says "Contains up to 10% ethanol". Never knew quite what to make of that.

But I've been using either Top Tier or non-ethanol for several years now, both her Eclipse and my Ram.
I haven't seen anything that even hints at any additives in non-ethanol gas so I tend to switch back and forth, or I add Red Line SL-1 to a tank.

I can't think of a single fuel source I've seen that listed 15% ethanol, I wonder if there is one out there?

 

[Daviddnv]

I find the "0-15%" range a bit mysterious. Is that a sliding scale? Or something else?
Around these parts, the gas pumps state that the fuel contains 10% Ethanol.
I'm also aware that there are several different additives that vary among fuel companies.
Either way, since I'm out here in the trenches, so to speak, I can tell if someone IS using a lesser brand (non-top tier) brand fuel by the use of a scanner and by pulling a spark plug and looking at deposits on it.

I also wonder if the page YOU show is or isn't accompanied by some print narrative in that section guiding as to when to use which choice is listed. (e.g. different weight of oil depending on temperature (summer/winter) and/ or the oh-so-subjective term "Severe Use".

I kind of take it as an "acceptable" range. Like the 87 octane is acceptable, but 89 recommended. I know I can feel a difference with 87 v 89. I take it as, 87 will work, but 89 works better. As for the 0-15%, I take that as the engine is designed to work with no ethanol or up to 15% ethanol. As with 87 vs 89, I think I feel a difference with non-Ethanol vs Ethanol. According to the manual, they both should work.

I don't see anything mentioned about best conditions or acceptable vs recommended for ethanol, like the octane. The screen shot comes from page 371 of the 2022 RAM 1500 manual.

 

[Daviddnv]

...
I haven't seen anything that even hints at any additives in non-ethanol gas so I tend to switch back and forth, or I add Red Line SL-1 to a tank.

Right... So my question is, are the additives there to compensate for the issues that ethanol creates? It's like being the hero because you solved a problem that you created, lol. I'm sure none of this new, it's just something that has me scratching my head.

 

[Tulecreeper]

A minor point, and perhaps just indicative of different markets, but here in the Mid-Altantic, and during my travels throughout that region, all pumps have a label that
says "Contains up to 10% ethanol". Never knew quite what to make of that.

But I've been using either Top Tier or non-ethanol for several years now, both her Eclipse and my Ram.
I haven't seen anything that even hints at any additives in non-ethanol gas so I tend to switch back and forth, or I add Red Line SL-1 to a tank.

I can't think of a single fuel source I've seen that listed 15% ethanol, I wonder if there is one out there?

Same in AR and AZ, and everywhere else I can recall.

 

[Dredger]

I can't think of a single fuel source I've seen that listed 15% ethanol, I wonder if there is one out there?

Sheetz in the east