Noob needs help 6.4L possible lifter and cam

[BurtShaver]

Hey Everyone, thanks for having me here, Im a member on many other forums for Arctic Cat, Ski doo, Seadoo, Yamaha but first post here. So... I have a 2016 Ram 6.4l that suddenly just started running like a bag of ****, or at least I think it was sudden, in hindsight maybe it was stumbling a bit when first started. When it happened I did a little internet searching and of course came across threads about bad lifters and cam but I really don’t know so the first thing I’m trying to do is figure out what’s wrong with it. I’ve had 3 different people out to scan it but I will skip to the fellow who had the best scanner. Actually a fellow came with a cheap scanner and he got code P2172 throttle actuator and code P0300. He called his son who seemed to have a better scanner and his showed a mis fire on cylinders 3,7 and 8. So the father ( Sonny ) recommended changing the spark plugs to see if that helped and changing the coils for those cylinders. I’m not sure how much the coils are, I will check but I don’t want to throw money at it if I don’t need to so I asked if I could switch the coils around and see if the misfire followed those coils, if it did... then there’s the problem, if not then it wouldn’t be the coils. Sonny also told me to look up the part number for a 2013 5.7 and see if it was the same as mine because he has a throttle actuator i could try becore purchasing one? I will check this out to see if part numbers are the same. The truck will barely run, to get it to run I have to give it some throttle and it’s really rough, I swear I hear engine noise.... I was going to drain the oil and strain it if I can find a filter media that will work? I tried a coffee filter with some old oil I have but it barely goes through at all. After draining the oil I was going to cut the ridge of the oil filter off to get at the paper filter to see if there was an abnormal amount of metal flake? Just looking for some ideas or confirmation firstly in diagnosing and if it does end up being the cam and lifters I’m thinking I would like to try it myself? Would there be anyone here that had done this repair before that could answer questions I will have?

 

[HEMIMANN]

Don't run it. It may be too damaged already to salvage.

How many miles? WHat oil did you use? It is likely a lifter failure with misfires, a common symptom. If you google some more, or if one of the gearheads responds, you should check for metal filings - but I don't recall where. If they are present, the engine is gone and needs a replacement.

If not, you may get away with new lifters and cam for 1/2 the price of a new engine. The scan tool should have picked up a low coil voltage, if it's a decent tool.

 

[Jeepwalker]

Welcome aboard!

First things is to start with the small stuff...because that' s usually what the problems are.

1) Inspect Plugs/Coils: That was a great suggestion. Watch some videos. Remove them and inspect the coils really carefully. You can ohm them out too. That's basic troubleshooting. Ohm them out and inspect the the coil ends for hairline cracks and white traces. Again, watch some videos how to check coils. Same thing with plugs. Look them over and ohm them out. Still replace them if they need it, but if you can ID something 'bad' then you know you found something.

2) Compression test: Do that while you have the plugs out. You can rent a tester from Autozone for free. Its best if you run the truck a couple minutes beore you remove the plugs so it'll be ready for a compression test. Write down your findings. This is just a good thing to know.

3) Inspect the throttle body bore: Clean it with some TB cleaner. Chances are it could be gummed up. Use a plastic bristle angle brush..NEVER use a metal brush. A gummed up throttle bore or blade can make a vehicle run like garbage.

4) Grounds: Make sure the battery terminals are clean and the battery to body & Engine grounds are solid good.

5) PCV: Make sure its good. Make sure all vacuum and hoses are good.

6) Remove valve cover and watch the rockers: If you see one not moving very much...that tells you a story. Then you might have a bad lifter.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Note - PCV is hard to get to on 6.4L, buried under intake manifold.

 

[BurtShaver]

Welcome aboard!

First things is to start with the small stuff...because that' s usually what the problems are.

1) Inspect Plugs/Coils: That was a great suggestion. Watch some videos. Remove them and inspect the coils really carefully. You can ohm them out too. That's basic troubleshooting. Ohm them out and inspect the the coil ends for hairline cracks and white traces. Again, watch some videos how to check coils. Same thing with plugs. Look them over and ohm them out. Still replace them if they need it, but if you can ID something 'bad' then you know you found something.

2) Compression test: Do that while you have the plugs out. You can rent a tester from Autozone for free. Its best if you run the truck a couple minutes beore you remove the plugs so it'll be ready for a compression test. Write down your findings. This is just a good thing to know.

3) Inspect the throttle body bore: Clean it with some TB cleaner. Chances are it could be gummed up. Use a plastic bristle angle brush..NEVER use a metal brush. A gummed up throttle bore or blade can make a vehicle run like garbage.

4) Grounds: Make sure the battery terminals are clean and the battery to body & Engine grounds are solid good.

5) PCV: Make sure its good. Make sure all vacuum and hoses are good.

6) Remove valve cover and watch the rockers: If you see one not moving very much...that tells you a story. Then you might have a bad lifter.

Thank you for the detailed reply, I will look up some video’s explaining how to Check the Ohm readings for the coils. Would you make that the first step? Or would cutting the oil filter open or taking the valve cover off to watch the rockers be a better first step?

 

[BurtShaver]

Don't run it. It may be too damaged already to salvage.

How many miles? WHat oil did you use? It is likely a lifter failure with misfires, a common symptom. If you google some more, or if one of the gearheads responds, you should check for metal filings - but I don't recall where. If they are present, the engine is gone and needs a replacement.

If not, you may get away with new lifters and cam for 1/2 the price of a new engine. The scan tool should have picked up a low coil voltage, if it's a decent tool.

Thank you, it had roughly 107,500 miles. As for oil I would need to go out in my barn/shop and have a look but I do know it’s not the right oil, it could be Mobil 1. Oddly earlier in the day I met a fellow who is a Ram guy he advised me to use a specific Valvoline oil but now I can’t remember which one it was.

 

[Jeepwalker]

Sure ...cutting the oil filter open can be a good first step in your case. If you don't see any shavings, you could check the rocker movement right away too. If you DO see shavings, then you know what the next steps are.

If it all looks good, no shavings, rocker movement good, then go back and do more troubleshooting per the list and other member's suggestions. Keep us up to speed what you find.

 

[BurtShaver]

I drained the oil out of it, oddly there doesn’t seem to be a magnet on the drain plug, I didn’t see any shiny flakes when it was draining, stuck an extendable magnet into the drain hole, didn’t see anything on it when I pulled it out, cut the oil filter open and at first couldn’t see any shavings at all so I cut about half of the paper media out and compressed it in the vice to remove the oil from the media, after doing this I was able to notice what I believe to be about 8 micro dots of shavings on the filter material. With having zero experience at all with this I have no idea if those 8 micro dots of shavings are cause for concern or not? If I were cutting open a filter from a vehicle that was running correctly they would not cause me any concern, I would expect the filter to be filtering out something and would expect a very small degree of shavings to be normal but again I’m all ears with no experience. I had a look and I was using Mobile 1 0w40 European Formula, I remember seeing somewhere not to use this oil but I had no idea until a week ago. Going to use Penzoil Ultra Premium from here on in. I spent 4 or 5 hours last night searching the internet in how to Ohm out the coil packs in these 6.4L engines but couldn’t find a single video or thread describing the procedure Or values i should be looking for. I did find a video that described in general terms (not vehicle specific) how to test a coil pack with multimeter. The video said to remove e coil, remove the rubber boot at the bottom, clip black lead to the far left pin ( it was a 4 pin coil in the video but it said it would be same for 3 or 2 pin ) connect the red multimeter to the lower connector beneath the boot. It said I should see a value of 10,000 mega Ohms or higher, in the video they got 23.5 mega Ohms ( not sure what mega Ohm is but I will search it ) looking forward to seeing what you guys think my next step should be? When giving me instruction please feel free to be specific in terms of procedure. I know how to turn a wrench but that’s about it. I’m going to go ahead and pull a couple of coils off to inspect and try to Ohm out till I hear back. If I am advised to go ahead and take the valve cover off and roll it over I’ve read to pull the fuel pump relay and the asd relay? Does this sound correct? Should I be pulling these relays before cranking over? When pulling the valve covers will I need new gaskets or o rings ? In the 1 video I found the valve covers had rubber o ring type gaskets that looked as though they could be re used as long as they are in good shape and not brittle.

 

[BurtShaver]

I took the coil pack off of cylinder 3, cylinder 3,7 and 8 showed misfire. The first thing I noticed is the inside of one of the boots has a greenish substance similar to the colour a corroded battery terminal can have. I’m going to poke away at this with the multimeter but if anyone knows which pin I should have the black lead on? Also I can just pull the rubber grey boot off?

 

[BurtShaver]

I went ahead and pulled the rubber boot off, not sure if you can tell by the picture but the connector looks pretty corroded to me, Im going to try and Ohm it, if it passes my ohm test, Lol. Can I try cleaning up the connectors and using this coil? Not sure how to clean the part in the boot? I have some small bottle brush type brass brushes? Also going to need some instruction about what’s in the rubber boot, from what I’ve read I think there’s a spring in there? Do I pull out what’s in the boot, I’m going to wait for some instruction so I don’t damage it. Thank you

 

[BurtShaver]

I pulled the other boot off and when I did this little piece sitting on the table flew off, also the spring freely slides part way out of the boot on this one, on the first one the spring doesn’t? Is this ok? Or did it break?

 

[Wild one]

View attachment 555202View attachment 555203
I took the coil pack off of cylinder 3, cylinder 3,7 and 8 showed misfire. The first thing I noticed is the inside of one of the boots has a greenish substance similar to the colour a corroded battery terminal can have. I’m going to poke away at this with the multimeter but if anyone knows which pin I should have the black lead on? Also I can just pull the rubber grey boot off?

The boots just pull off with a good tug and twist,then you can push the springs out from inside the boot and check it and the contact point over inside the coil tower for corrosion.They are famous for corroding,if your springs and boots are in bad shape,you can buy new boots from rock auto that include new resistors. I use a dremel with one of these little brushes to clean up the corrosion on the springs contact point,and my bench mounted grinders wire wheel to clean up the springs and resistors if they aren't in bad shape,i also stretch the springs out roughly a 1/4 to 1/2 inch.

https://www.amazon.com.au/Accessory-Brushes-Cleaning-Removing-Materials/dp/B0035PVRSG?th=1

 

[Wild one]

View attachment 555204
I went ahead and pulled the rubber boot off, not sure if you can tell by the picture but the connector looks pretty corroded to me, Im going to try and Ohm it, if it passes my ohm test, Lol. Can I try cleaning up the connectors and using this coil? Not sure how to clean the part in the boot? I have some small bottle brush type brass brushes? Also going to need some instruction about what’s in the rubber boot, from what I’ve read I think there’s a spring in there? Do I pull out what’s in the boot, I’m going to wait for some instruction so I don’t damage it. Thank you

That thing you're looking at in the coil tower is the resistor,it should pop out with some tapping,and can be cleaned with a wire wheel,or you can buy new boots from rock auto that'll have new resistors.If you want to delete the resistor buy the boots for a 2013 Chrysler 300,as they have a longer spring inside the boot and don't have the resistor.

 

[BurtShaver]

The piece that came out in my last post, is that the resistor? Is it supposed to come out of the coil pack like that? So far I’m not able to get any Ohm reading at all when putting black lead on first pin and red lead on the bottom of the coil? By the way, Thank you for taking your time to help a noob like me, That’s a thanks to everyone helping me here

 

[BurtShaver]

I think it would be a good idea for me to take off a coil pack from a cylinder that’s not throwing a misfire code and see what OHM readings I can get from it?

 

[Wild one]

I think it would be a good idea for me to take off a coil pack from a cylinder that’s not throwing a misfire code and see what OHM readings I can get from it?

Clean up the coil contacts and shake the resistor out first before you try to ohm the coil. Honestly i wouldn't be to worried about ohming the coils if they're giving you static,very seldom do the coils go bad,i'd clean them up really good,re-install them,and if you still have a misfire move a coil from a non-misfiring cylinder to the misfiring cylinder,if the miss follows the coil it's a bad coil,if not,then it's time to jerk the valve covers off and watch rocker arm movement.
Pull the starter relay and build or get a jumper switch,and jump the relay to turn the engine over while you're under the hood,that way you don't have to turn the key on or pull fuel pump relays etc.as the only thing you're powering is the starter,the rest of the truck stays dead

 

[nlambert182]

Thank you, it had roughly 107,500 miles. As for oil I would need to go out in my barn/shop and have a look but I do know it’s not the right oil, it could be Mobil 1. Oddly earlier in the day I met a fellow who is a Ram guy he advised me to use a specific Valvoline oil but now I can’t remember which one it was.

Mobil used to make the Mopar branded oil. Shell makes it now. As long as you're running the proper viscosity, the oil probably didn't have much to do with it.

 

[White six four]

Note - PCV is hard to get to on 6.4L, buried under intake manifold.

It's under the plastic engine cover. I replaced mine at 100k, 3 years ago. I just can't remember if it's at the rear passenger side of the manifold or the front under the foam piece. It's a simple few minute swap out once you know where it is, which my memory is failing me now.

 

[HEMIMANN]

It's under the plastic engine cover. I replaced mine at 100k, 3 years ago. I just can't remember if it's at the rear passenger side of the manifold or the front under the foam piece. It's a simple few minute swap out once you know where it is, which my memory is failing me now.

Not under the manifold as I was told on here?

 

[White six four]

I just checked since it was bothering me I couldn't remember where it was. It's under the foam in the front under the engine cover. Undo the sensor that goes in the cutout of the foam, undo the one hose and remove the foam. I only lifted the foam up on the picture I just took but you can kind of see the top of it. The part where you grab and give it the quarter twist to remove it.