Noob needs help 6.4L possible lifter and cam

[BurtShaver]

@BurtShaver
I had a similar issue on my 2017 Power Wagon. I was getting a misfire on the #8 cylinder and thought I had a lifter failure. Mine turned out to be a cut power wire for the #8 cylinder coil that shorted to another wire that got cut. There was a heater hose clamp rubbing the wire bundle and it finely cut through. A local shop doing the diagnosis repaired it and moved the clamp into a different orientation. Knock on wood its been running good since. Just something else to check.

This short also took out the diodes in the computer for cylinder 8. Had to have the computer replaced as well.

Thanks for sharing that with me, I am now cautiously optimistic that cleaning up these coil packs will fix my issue. Originally I had myself convinced that it was lifters and possibly cam but after coming here, and then cutting open the oil filter I’m now leaning elsewhere. In your case did it happen suddenly? Run like a bad if crap, only way to get it started was by pressing on the accelerator pedal. What did the PEM set you back? I work a little bit on old 90’s seadoo’s just as a hobby, there’s a diode in those MPEM’s that can go bad from a bad ground, putting battery cables in backwards or boosting them with a running vehicle. Although those MPEM’s are not supposed to be serviceable you are able to dig out the potting and replace the diode, I wonder if someone had the time and patience if the same could be done for the Ram’d computer. Glad your all fixed up

 

[Dusty]

When you get a P0300 on these engines it usually is not a lifter/cam problem. On my son's 2014 the P0300 was caused by intermittent fuel injectors on one bank shutting down due to green crusties in one of the PCM connectors.

General comment: Now I've only experienced one coil problem on the dozen or so 5.7s I've worked on, but I'm really surprised at the amount of corrosion you're seeing in those coils. I see you're in Ontario, Canada, but I would guess the environment factors (moisture, humidity, etc.) are roughly the same as western New York state. I've yet to encounter anything close to your experience.

Anyways, like you, I'm cautiously optimistic you're on the the source of the issue.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 123419 miles.

 

[Wild one]

When you get a P0300 on these engines it usually is not a lifter/cam problem. On my son's 2014 the P0300 was caused by intermittent fuel injectors on one bank shutting down due to green crusties in one of the PCM connectors.

General comment: Now I've only experienced one coil problem on the dozen or so 5.7s I've worked on, but I'm really surprised at the amount of corrosion you're seeing in those coils. I see you're in Ontario, Canada, but I would guess the environment factors (moisture, humidity, etc.) are roughly the same as western New York state. I've yet to encounter anything close to your experience.

Anyways, like you, I'm cautiously optimistic you're on the the source of the issue.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 123419 miles.

Have you actually pulled the coil boots to check the spring / resistor and contact point under the resistor over for corrosion,as there's very few coils i've ran into that were a few years old that didn't have corrosion,and this is on alot of toys that are only summer driven up here,and our climate in the summer is very dry compared to alot of the world.
I just helped a buddy out on his 2016 SRT Challenger that only has 18,000 kms/roughly 12,000 miles on it,and the car sits in a heated garage during the winter,and sees very little if any rain,and his coils were showing enough corrosion,that he's now going to clean them up every winter when the cars parked.

 

[BurtShaver]

When you get a P0300 on these engines it usually is not a lifter/cam problem. On my son's 2014 the P0300 was caused by intermittent fuel injectors on one bank shutting down due to green crusties in one of the PCM connectors.

General comment: Now I've only experienced one coil problem on the dozen or so 5.7s I've worked on, but I'm really surprised at the amount of corrosion you're seeing in those coils. I see you're in Ontario, Canada, but I would guess the environment factors (moisture, humidity, etc.) are roughly the same as western New York state. I've yet to encounter anything close to your experience.

Anyways, like you, I'm cautiously optimistic you're on the the source of the issue.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 123419 miles.

Thanks Dusty, the coil boots and plugs are in, just waiting on the dremel brushes to come in on Monday. Roof to do Monday and Tuesday so hopefully by Thursday I will get at this. I would think the environment would be the same, snow, slush and salt for the winter months and no heat without humidity in the summer months. Thanks for the suggestions, I will start with the plugs and cleaning up the coil packs,if that doesn’t solve it I will move on from there, maybe checking the connectors for corrosion wouldn’t be a bad idea

 

[Wild one]

Thanks Dusty, the coil boots and plugs are in, just waiting on the dremel brushes to come in on Monday. Roof to do Monday and Tuesday so hopefully by Thursday I will get at this. I would think the environment would be the same, snow, slush and salt for the winter months and no heat without humidity in the summer months. Thanks for the suggestions, I will start with the plugs and cleaning up the coil packs,if that doesn’t solve it I will move on from there, maybe checking the connectors for corrosion wouldn’t be a bad idea

Did you buy the earlier coil boots that don't use the resistor,as personally i think the resistors are a contributing factor to the corrosion issue.I'm only basing this on the coils that i've done,and it seems like the later coil boots that have the resistors are always in worse shape then the earlier coil boots that don't utilize the resistors.
I pulled the resistors out of both the wifes Challenger and my truck,and replaced them with the earlier coil boots,and ever since then,i haven't had as many issues with corrosion as both exibited when they had the original boots with resistors. I actually picked up the earlier coil boots for a 2013 Chrysler 300 with the 5.7 for both the truck and Challenger,same rubber boot,but with the longer spring to replace the shorter springs that are used on the coils with the resistors.

 

[BurtShaver]

Did you buy the earlier coil boots that don't use the resistor,as personally i think the resistors are a contributing factor to the corrosion issue.I'm only basing this on the coils that i've done,and it seems like the later coil boots that have the resistors are always in worse shape then the earlier coil boots that don't utilize the resistors.
I pulled the resistors out of both the wifes Challenger and my truck,and replaced them with the earlier coil boots,and ever since then,i haven't had as many issues with corrosion as both exibited when they had the original boots with resistors. I actually picked up the earlier coil boots for a 2013 Chrysler 300 with the 5.7 for both the truck and Challenger,same rubber boot,but with the longer spring to replace the shorter springs that are used on the coils with the resistors.

No I didn’t get the ones without the resistors, I purchased NGK ones with the resistors from RA. If I still have the truck in 2 or 3 years I might go with the boots to eliminate the resistors then.

 

[Dusty]

Have you actually pulled the coil boots to check the spring / resistor and contact point under the resistor over for corrosion,as there's very few coils i've ran into that were a few years old that didn't have corrosion,and this is on alot of toys that are only summer driven up here,and our climate in the summer is very dry compared to alot of the world.
I just helped a buddy out on his 2016 SRT Challenger that only has 18,000 kms/roughly 12,000 miles on it,and the car sits in a heated garage during the winter,and sees very little if any rain,and his coils were showing enough corrosion,that he's now going to clean them up every winter when the cars parked.

Only on a couple, but I see your point.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 123445 miles.

 

[Dusty]

Did you buy the earlier coil boots that don't use the resistor,as personally i think the resistors are a contributing factor to the corrosion issue.I'm only basing this on the coils that i've done,and it seems like the later coil boots that have the resistors are always in worse shape then the earlier coil boots that don't utilize the resistors.
I pulled the resistors out of both the wifes Challenger and my truck,and replaced them with the earlier coil boots,and ever since then,i haven't had as many issues with corrosion as both exibited when they had the original boots with resistors. I actually picked up the earlier coil boots for a 2013 Chrysler 300 with the 5.7 for both the truck and Challenger,same rubber boot,but with the longer spring to replace the shorter springs that are used on the coils with the resistors.

Unless there's an influence from construction, I see no electrical reason that would promote that type of corrosion.

Also, most factory vehicles use resistor type spark plugs, wires, or boots, for a reason. In some applications secondary coil ringing can cause RFI interference to the PCM or other modules.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 123445 miles.

 

[Wild one]

Unless there's an influence from construction, I see no electrical reason that would promote that type of corrosion.

Also, most factory vehicles use resistor type spark plugs, wires, or boots, for a reason. In some applications secondary coil ringing can cause RFI interference to the PCM or other modules.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 123445 miles.

It seems to be more of an issue with the later coils that use the resistors,personally it makes me wonder if the resistors are creating more heat,but you'd think if so the heat should create less corrosion,but it's all i can come up with.But then again i've probably done more of the later coils then i have the earlier coils,as i only started cleaning up the contact points about 8 years ago,when i stumbled into a badly corroded coil on my truck
The earlier coils didn't use the resistors,and employed a longer spring ,so i'm not sure there's much basis to your theory about coil ringing.
I switched both the truck and Challenger back to the earlier boots,but i also run a copper plug in both,and i have to admit,i haven't ran into any downsides to the earlier boots on the later coils.i'd almost think the earlier boots might work even better with irridium plugs then they do with copper plugs

 

[Dusty]

Usually, especially in automotive service, that bluish-green corrosion is the result of hydrogen, moisture and air environment. It seems that one of the last places it should occur is in the bowels of the coil boots which itself is closed off from moisture, air and especially hydrogen.

My initial suspect is that this issue is not caused by the presence of a resistor, but of the loss of conductivity of the individual connection points, ie, no resistor, one less conducting point, or maybe a dissimilar metal issue.

This is something I'll have to pay attention to in the future since I admittedly never suspected there could be a problem in this area. I have a test case in mind. My son has a 2014 6.4 that will need plugs in the near future.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 123445 miles.

 

[Wild one]

Usually, especially in automotive service, that bluish-green corrosion is the result of hydrogen, moisture and air environment. It seems that one of the last places it should occur is in the bowels of the coil boots which itself is closed off from moisture, air and especially hydrogen.

My initial suspect is that this issue is not caused by the presence of a resistor, but of the loss of conductivity of the individual connection points, ie, no resistor, one less conducting point, or maybe a dissimilar metal issue.

This is something I'll have to pay attention to in the future since I admittedly never suspected there could be a problem in this area. I have a test case in mind. My son has a 2014 6.4 that will need plugs in the near future.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 123445 miles.

The way i stumbled into it was doing the yearly plug change looking for a very interminent misfire at 6000+ while spraying at the track.I ruled out injectors,as i run a seperate stand alone fuel cell for the nitrous,so the trucks injectors couldn't be the issue,as it only did it when cylinder pressures were high,and the load on the ignition system was highest ,plus every thing valve train wise was good,so i started digging into the coils and when i popped the boots off,you might say my eyeballs got peeled open on the amount of corrosion i found,at the time the truck was only a couple years old,with about 15,000 miles on it

 

[BurtShaver]

Don't forget your 6.4 uses a differant plug then the 5.7 does.The 5.7 uses a flat seat plug with a washer,the 6.4 uses a tapered seat plug with no washer

I hope these are the right plugs? I got them from Rock Auto, NGK 4469 LFR5AIX-11. This plug has a washer, but the washer is tapered in the bottom side of it.

 

[Wild one]

View attachment 555812
I hope these are the right plugs? I got them from Rock Auto, NGK 4469 LFR5AIX-11. This plug has a washer, but the washer is tapered in the bottom side of it.

I think those are 5.7 plugs,you're 6.4 should use plugs with a tapered seat and no washer.
Pull one plug out and see if it matches

 

[BurtShaver]

Nope those are 5.7 plugs,you're 6.4 uses plugs with a tapered seat and no washer.

https://www.allmoparparts.com/sku/sp149212ac.html

Darn, I just assumed that if I picked from the drop down menu on Rock Auto 2016-Ram-2500-6.4 they would only offer the correct plugs. I’m going to check the drop down menu and see if they offer these same plugs for the 5.7.

 

[Wild one]

Darn, I just assumed that if I picked from the drop down menu on Rock Auto 2016-Ram-2500-6.4 they would only offer the correct plugs. I’m going to check the drop down menu and see if they offer these same plugs for the 5.7.

Instead of doing that,go pull a plug out of the engine,and order the same plug as what's in it now.
I could be wrong and so could rock auto,so verify what you actually have
A couple minutes checking your old plugs,will make sure you're getting the right plugs

 

[BurtShaver]

Rock auto had that plug listed for both the 5.7 and my 6.4, I looked at the pictures of about 4 of the plugs offered for my 6.4 and they all had washers. I hope I’m not stuck paying 20.00 per plug from the dealership

 

[BurtShaver]

Instead of doing that,go pull a plug out of the engine,and order the same plug as what's in it now.
I could be wrong and so could rock auto,so verify what you actually have
A couple minutes checking your old plugs,will make sure you're getting the right plugs

Thanks @Wild one , I will pull a plug tomorrow.

 

[Wild one]

Rock auto had that plug listed for both the 5.7 and my 6.4, I looked at the pictures of about 4 of the plugs offered for my 6.4 and they all had washers. I hope I’m not stuck paying 20.00 per plug from the dealership

Delete

 

[BurtShaver]

I’m at Canadian Tire now, they have Pennzoil Ultra Platinum but only in 0w20? Ok? My truck calls for 0w40

 

[Wild one]

I’m at Canadian Tire now, they have Pennzoil Ultra Platinum but only in 0w20? Ok? My truck calls for 0w40

About the only place i've found 0W-40 PUP in Canada is at the dealer or on Amazon,Crappy Tire won't even bring it in if you ask them.I ran 0W-40 PUP and Lubegard in the wifes 6.4 Challenger while it was still getting dealer oil changes,once they were done,i switched it over to 5W-30 Redline,and the car was happier on the 5W-30 Redline then it was on 0W-40 PUP,noticably quieter starts and it idled with less valvetrain clatter when hot.

https://www.amazon.ca/Pennzoil-550040856-6PK-Ultra-Platinum-Synthetic/dp/B00JMCCE6U?th=1