Oddball question: Does a WDH count towards a truck's tongue weight?

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Spsully

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I have air shocks on my 04. Not to hold extra weight, but to hold it and ride better while doing it. So I'm not saying at all that air has no place.
 
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Random_Walk

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Have you talked to rv dealers or trailer shops to see what they would charge to set up the wdh or just install the right ball?

I promise, a dealership is the absolute -last- place you want to go for accessories, unless you have no other choice. I've set 'em up before; it's worth it to me to get something pre-rigged for the convenience and time saved, and I'd rather pay $400 online vs. $800 at the dealership for the same hitch rigging. P&S is the most profitable department of any dealership - the markups are astounding (the only thing that keeps them from marking-up the 3rd-party products 200%+ like they do on brand-name parts is competition from Amazon/Walmart/etc.)


As far as the squat-factor, surprisingly enough my back-end barely noticed when I drove the trailer home sans WDH (360lbs of tongue weight from a perfectly-balanced-because-it-was-completely-empty ultralight trailer, which really isn't going to affect springs like 750 lbs or more sitting on the ball would.) Still want to get a WDH though, just because.

Edit: To demonstrate, this links to a pic I took on a stop while dragging it home for the first time: https://www.ramforum.com/threads/what-did-you-do-with-your-4th-gen-this-week.34480/post-2766525
 

CamperMike

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I promise, a dealership is the absolute -last- place you want to go for accessories, unless you have no other choice. I've set 'em up before; it's worth it to me to get something pre-rigged for the convenience and time saved, and I'd rather pay $400 online vs. $800 at the dealership for the same hitch rigging. P&S is the most profitable department of any dealership - the markups are astounding (the only thing that keeps them from marking-up the 3rd-party products 200%+ like they do on brand-name parts is competition from Amazon/Walmart/etc.)


As far as the squat-factor, surprisingly enough my back-end barely noticed when I drove the trailer home sans WDH (360lbs of tongue weight from a perfectly-balanced-because-it-was-completely-empty ultralight trailer, which really isn't going to affect springs like 750 lbs or more sitting on the ball would.) Still want to get a WDH though, just because.

Edit: To demonstrate, this links to a pic I took on a stop while dragging it home for the first time: https://www.ramforum.com/threads/what-did-you-do-with-your-4th-gen-this-week.34480/post-2766525
I guess it depends on the dealer or shop... I didn't pay anywhere near that kind of markup. There are also trailer repair and shops dedicated for towing that do this kind of work. But if all your missing is a tool to do it by all means buy the right tool and get r done. That is usually what I would do but with buying a trailer when it was 20 degrees out I just let the dealer do it. Was worth the small upcharge in that case.
 

Spsully

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Dealerships are learning to be more competitive in pricing of parts. Factory accessories have higher price tags, but they are specifically designed for your vehicle.

Wheels for example. You can go buy wheels for way less other places, but the mopar wheels have been crash tested on the vehicle they are selling them for. They have been machined specifically to fit and not cost mopar more money in warranty claims of suspension parts.

Are they the greatest in the world? No. But anything you buy that is on the same level will have a similar price tag.
 

VernDiesel

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Does a WDH count towards a trucks's tongue weight? Some. But its not the fixed weight of the WDH.

When using a WDH tongue weight is no longer static but rather dynamic. IE some of the tongue weight as seen on rear axle is transferred to the front truck axle and usually a lesser amount of it back to the trailer axle. Same as the tongue weight the WDH weight itself is spread between steer axle, tongue or drive axle, and trailer axle. So no longer being fixed weight it can no longer be weighed by itself. It has to be calculated from your CAT scale weight slips.

(For how a WDH works I like to use the wheel barrow example. As you lift up on a loaded wheelbarrow's handles same as WDH, weight is transferred from the wheelbarrow rear legs same as the trucks drive axle to both the wheelbarrow front wheels same as a truck steer axle and to you feet same as the trailer axle.)



Say you CAT scale your truck and your weight slip shows;

3,200 Steer axle
2,600 Drive axle
5,800 Total

Then after hooking up say your travel trailer making adjustments to your WDH settings and trailer and truck bed loading. This often requires a few trips over the scale. You dial in your weight distribution so that your weight slip looks like this;

3,100 Steer
3,660 Drive
6,760 Total

7,040 trailer

13,800 CVW combined vehicle weight


You calculate your tongue weight as follows;

6,760
5,800 (subtract)
960 tongue weight

Why do we want the tongue weight? Two reasons. One to make sure it does not exceed our truck's rated capacity or spec. In the 4th gen 1500 its 1,150 pounds. Secondly and most importantly to make sure its in that 10 to 15% of gross trailer weight range for maximum stability. Avoids oscillating sway on longer heavier trailers. Not too heavy on the drive axle to lift too much weight off the front of the truck and not too light (too tight) that it removes too much drive axle weight that the truck easily loses drive axle traction where is can easily be spun out by trailer push on a turn. So what is our tongue weight percentage? Again we calculate it from our scale slips.

960+6,760=8,000 gross trailer weight. 960 divided by 8,000 equals 12.0% (I've found this provides sufficient stability towing a boxy long windsail know as a travel trailer with passing semi trucks and wind gusts traveling at 65 mph.


What is the other and primary purpose of using a WDH. Its amazing but some people forget this.. its weight distribution. Lots of people in fact most people have no idea what exactly they should be looking to adjust towards in either measurements or axle weights. Its just voodoo science to them. You see these guys talking about door sticker numbers and stacking up weight estimates towards a magic sticker number. Its senseless and provides no indication as to whether a particular truck can handle a particular trailer with stability & safety.

In terms of Mfgr specs our example slips shows after adjustments we got the steer weight back up 3,100 within 100 pounds of unladen steer axle weight. We kept our drive axle weight down to 3,660 despite an 8,000 pound trailer and below the Mfgr max spec of 3.900. This setup might be driveable with two fingers on the wheels. I'm not recommending that just saying. With no weight distribution just drop it on the ball it may have been all hands on deck to drive with white knuckles at 10 & 2. Last you notice the CVW combined vehicle weight slip number of 13,800. The maximum (CVWR) for the 4th gen platform is 15,950. Check were good there to.
 

MoParts

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One thing that seems to rarely come up in WDH discussions is the intended terrain where it will be used. I have a 10K dump trailer that nears the limit of the coupler angle when cresting certain features on access roads that I use it on, and at other times I traverse dips where the coupler is 2-3' lower than the front bumper/trailer tailgate. I don't have or feel that I need a WDH but it's hard to imagine that these scenarios would not pose a problem for one. I guess you could just disconnect the spring arms if entering such terrain -- if you remember.
 

Dean2

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One thing that seems to rarely come up in WDH discussions is the intended terrain where it will be used. I have a 10K dump trailer that nears the limit of the coupler angle when cresting certain features on access roads that I use it on, and at other times I traverse dips where the coupler is 2-3' lower than the front bumper/trailer tailgate. I don't have or feel that I need a WDH but it's hard to imagine that these scenarios would not pose a problem for one. I guess you could just disconnect the spring arms if entering such terrain -- if you remember.
Anything that a truck and trailer can traverse, a wdh will go through as well with the same trailer. Going into dips it doesn't allow the hitch to dip as much so the arms don't drag. Same applies to break overs.
 

MoParts

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OK, thanks for that bit of context. Seems like it would be a lot of stress but again, I don't bother with WDH.
 

VernDiesel

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For slow rough terrain I wouldn't either. Or for a 5,000 lb trailer with low aerodynamic drag I still wouldn't bother. But for an 8k long box travel trailer on a 1,000 mile tow behind a half ton truck.. absolutely. All 5 half ton Mfgrs recommend a WDH for anything over 5,000. But most importantly for a tall boxy or top heavy trailer.
 
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