Oil Filter Thread

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JHoward

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Well, none of this makes sense ... I have purchased Royal Purple/AMSOIL oil filters off of the internet, when indeed, I now can go to my local Wal-Mart and purchase of the shelf FRAM Synthetic Endurance FE2 oil filter at possibly same or cheaper in price that is basically the "same" oil filter as well he other two ...? Idk.

I admit, upon viewing the insides of the FRAM Endurance oil filter for myself, it might be the new alternative to the RP and AMSOIL and more easier/readily available ... for the moment until someone finds out about all of this and buys them all up, lol
 

06 Dodge

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Based on the 100X pic of the filtering media of both filters IMO the EA looks like it will be better at filtering smaller particles then the Fram, was surprised to see several nice size holes aka open areas ( one of them is under the letters AM of Fram) that big particles could pass through without being caught..
 

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Been pondering Fram new Endurance Oil Filter

Prominent on the marketing literature is "Low Restriction". What does that tell us? It tells us the Fram Ultra Oil Filter is not low restriction.

This was proven by test on a You Tube video one of you linked to. Fram Ultra was the highest restriction filter of those tested. Ultra is also the highest efficiency of filters tested in a Project Farm video test.

What does this mean? Is a high efficiency, high restriction oil filter "bad"? Not necessarily. An engine with a good oil pump and well-designed lubrication system would benefit by keeping oil cleaner, producing less engine wear for maximum engine life - way out into the hundreds of thousands of miles. That benefits those that keep their trucks as long as they can.

Engines have historically used gearotor oil pumps. These are constant flow, variable pressure pumps. They have a high pressure relief valve to protect the pump. The oil filter also has a high pressure relief valve to protect the filter media from collapsing, the canister from bursting, and the gasket from leaking.

The oil filter maker balances the high pressure relief valve setting against the strength of the media, canister, and gasket. If designed correctly, the engine will always get the same oil flow rate regardless of oil viscosity and temperature. That's hydraulic design theory.

Now for reality. @Burla has real world usage that shows filter design matters to Hemi engine lifter tick. Which means oil flow rate. Different center tube holes and patterns affected lifter ticking - one pattern ticked, the other didn't. Hydraulic flow theory says it should not matter.

So, now what? Looking at the you tube video inspection of new Fram Endurance (no testing involved), this filter goes back to a single media type - recall Fram changed Ultra design from single element to dual element with progressive increased efficiency. Fram said new dual layer Ultra had higher efficiency than old single layer Ultra (I have their response to me). That makes sense. They didn't mention it likely has higher flow restriction. That SHOULDN'T matter, but clearly it does, somehow, because they are clearly marketing new Endurance Oil Filter for lowered flow restriction.

We don't know the dirt filtering efficiency, dirt capacity, nor flow restriction of the new filter - at least not yet until some a*n*a*l type tests it. The media element appears a single fiber, could be wound, could be random, but it is layered and matted. Could be fiberglass, could be polypropylene plastic fiber. We don't know.

Finally, new Fram Endurance Filter is ONLY sold through Walmart. Why, who knows. The price is higher than Ultra by $3-$4, pricing it near identical to Royal Purple. None of this is a random accident - this was purposely done, that I am sure of having been in the biz for years.

Is it "safe" for Hemi engine owners to use? Sure! But is it better for Hemi engines than Royal Purple or Fram Ultra? Nobody knows. Yet.

*end rant*
 

HEMIMANN

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Rant Addendum:

Marketing statement on the box says microglass (fiberglass), see Wally World screen pic below.

Pretty clear now this direct challenge to Royal Purple and Amsoil Oil Filters, priced the same but with Wally World inventory behind it.
Screenshot_20230719-103342_Walmart.jpg
 

ramffml

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Been pondering Fram new Endurance Oil Filter

Prominent on the marketing literature is "Low Restriction". What does that tell us? It tells us the Fram Ultra Oil Filter is not low restriction.

This was proven by test on a You Tube video one of you linked to. Fram Ultra was the highest restriction filter of those tested. Ultra is also the highest efficiency of filters tested in a Project Farm video test.

What does this mean? Is a high efficiency, high restriction oil filter "bad"? Not necessarily. An engine with a good oil pump and well-designed lubrication system would benefit by keeping oil cleaner, producing less engine wear for maximum engine life - way out into the hundreds of thousands of miles. That benefits those that keep their trucks as long as they can.

Engines have historically used gearotor oil pumps. These are constant flow, variable pressure pumps. They have a high pressure relief valve to protect the pump. The oil filter also has a high pressure relief valve to protect the filter media from collapsing, the canister from bursting, and the gasket from leaking.

The oil filter maker balances the high pressure relief valve setting against the strength of the media, canister, and gasket. If designed correctly, the engine will always get the same oil flow rate regardless of oil viscosity and temperature. That's hydraulic design theory.

Now for reality. @Burla has real world usage that shows filter design matters to Hemi engine lifter tick. Which means oil flow rate. Different center tube holes and patterns affected lifter ticking - one pattern ticked, the other didn't. Hydraulic flow theory says it should not matter.

So, now what? Looking at the you tube video inspection of new Fram Endurance (no testing involved), this filter goes back to a single media type - recall Fram changed Ultra design from single element to dual element with progressive increased efficiency. Fram said new dual layer Ultra had higher efficiency than old single layer Ultra (I have their response to me). That makes sense. They didn't mention it likely has higher flow restriction. That SHOULDN'T matter, but clearly it does, somehow, because they are clearly marketing new Endurance Oil Filter for lowered flow restriction.

We don't know the dirt filtering efficiency, dirt capacity, nor flow restriction of the new filter - at least not yet until some a*n*a*l type tests it. The media element appears a single fiber, could be wound, could be random, but it is layered and matted. Could be fiberglass, could be polypropylene plastic fiber. We don't know.

Finally, new Fram Endurance Filter is ONLY sold through Walmart. Why, who knows. The price is higher than Ultra by $3-$4, pricing it near identical to Royal Purple. None of this is a random accident - this was purposely done, that I am sure of having been in the biz for years.

Is it "safe" for Hemi engine owners to use? Sure! But is it better for Hemi engines than Royal Purple or Fram Ultra? Nobody knows. Yet.

*end rant*

I read on bitog a while back that 2 of the fram filters (forget which ones) are identical, just marketed under different names because a reseller/vendor wanted a "unique" filter?

Pretty sure one of those 2 was the "endurance". But my memory is short and brutal.
 

HEMIMANN

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I read on bitog a while back that 2 of the fram filters (forget which ones) are identical, just marketed under different names because a reseller/vendor wanted a "unique" filter?

Pretty sure one of those 2 was the "endurance". But my memory is short and brutal.

Well, the video posted by a member some posts above that started this all showed Amsoil Filter identical. Royal Purple filter also identical except for the base plate hole pattern.

Then Burla showed corporate conglomerate "First Brands" sucked up Fram a couple years back, don't know if they sucked up Champion Labs too?
 
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Burla

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I read on bitog a while back that 2 of the fram filters (forget which ones) are identical, just marketed under different names because a reseller/vendor wanted a "unique" filter?

Pretty sure one of those 2 was the "endurance". But my memory is short and brutal.
someone needs to go back and read the last few pages, multiple choice test at noon.
 

emjohn4

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Rant Addendum:

Marketing statement on the box says microglass (fiberglass), see Wally World screen pic below.

Pretty clear now this direct challenge to Royal Purple and Amsoil Oil Filters, priced the same but with Wally World inventory behind it.
View attachment 524975
That's nice. Don't care. That's the same company with a history of $hit for filters and extremly poor QC.

I will never put a Fram on my vehicle...I'd sooner use toilet paper and duct tape before Fram.

/Rant over. :)
 

HEMIMANN

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That's nice. Don't care. That's the same company with a history of $hit for filters and extremly poor QC.

I will never put a Fram on my vehicle...I'd sooner use toilet paper and duct tape before Fram.

/Rant over. :)

You might want to read some about Fram. Fram Ultra was consider the best filter when it first came out decades back.
 

JHoward

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Fwiw, my HEMI's oil psi while using the AMSOIL AEO11 compared to the Royal Purple 20-820(s) at idle and driving are identical:

Cold start up idle - 56psi
Hot idle -48psi
Highway/Interstate driving at 70mph -53psi

So, the difference of the amount and size/amount of the inlet holes on the baseplates didn't make any difference, as to the oil psi. in my HEMI.

My HEMI is a little over~48,000 miles and had the occasional dry start up valve train clatter before using the oil and oil filter combo of Red Line 5w/30 oil and Royal Purple 20-820 oil filter. Maybe I'm fortunate that this combo has resolved that issue early on and by doing so that may reduce the possibility of the lifters/cam from imploding.

I have a couple of Royal Purple 20-820 filters ready for future oci's, but I may try the FRAM FE2 oil filter and see if there is anything different ... Imo, I think it may do just as good as those other two filters.
 

HEMIMANN

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Fwiw, my HEMI's oil psi while using the AMSOIL AEO11 compared to the Royal Purple 20-820(s) at idle and driving are identical:

Cold start up idle - 56psi
Hot idle -48psi
Highway/Interstate driving at 70mph -53psi

So, the difference of the amount and size/amount of the inlet holes on the baseplates didn't make any difference, as to the oil psi. in my HEMI.

My HEMI is a little over~48,000 miles and had the occasional dry start up valve train clatter before using the oil and oil filter combo of Red Line 5w/30 oil and Royal Purple 20-820 oil filter. Maybe I'm fortunate that this combo has resolved that issue early on and by doing so that may reduce the possibility of the lifters/cam from imploding.

I have a couple of Royal Purple 20-820 filters ready for future oci's, but I may try the FRAM FE2 oil filter and see if there is anything different ... Imo, I think it may do just as good as those other two filters.

That would be a cool thing to try - and hopefully report to us. Pressure should be the same if these are clone filters.

Even more interesting would be to try the near equivalent size Fram Ultra XG2 oil filter, which has higher flow restriction media - to see if the EVIC oil pressure changes. For a true constant flow gearotor oil pump (constant flow, variable pressure), it should not. Yet we have seen some strange differences reported by members.
 

JHoward

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I could also try the FRAM XG2 for arguments sake ...

Hence my thinking on the true constant flow gearotor oil pump, curious, why did @Burla, using one type of oil filter vs another made his HEMI tick ... maybe the anti drain back valves were/are different or the center tube inside the oil filter was restricting the oil flow due to one design being "holes" and the other being louvered/slits or the base plates having less/larger inlet holes?Idk.
 

HEMIMANN

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I could also try the FRAM XG2 for arguments sake ...

Hence my thinking on the true constant flow gearotor oil pump, curious, why did @Burla, using one type of oil filter vs another made his HEMI tick ... maybe the anti drain back valves were/are different or the center tube inside the oil filter was restricting the oil flow due to one design being "holes" and the other being louvered/slits or the base plates having less/larger inlet holes?Idk.

Us engineers used to call this P.F.M.
 

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