Oil pressure too high... Engine shut off on me once

[JHoward]

... IF, every HEMI owner used the same brand oil, same weight, viscosity AND the same exact oil filter, I'd bet that oil psi's would still be different.

 

[Ken226]

I did replace all ignition coils (Amazon purchase), but a few weeks before I got the sticker shock at the dealer. Also replaced all 4 MDS and the VVT solenoids with units from Rock Auto during the repair.

The reason I asked is that I remember a video from Pine Hollow Diagnostics.

Each of the videos is about 30 minutes


Part 1

Dodge Truck Stalls on Highway case study -Part 1 (Staten Island Ep. 8.6)

This is as bizarre as they get. This 2004 Dodge Ram randomly decides to shut off while accelerating on to the highway. No DTCs are stored. Luckily, we can re...

www.youtube.com

part 2

Dodge Truck Stalls on Highway case study -Part 2 (Staten Island Ep. 8.6)

It's a brand new day, and now we have a game plan on how to attack this possessed Dodge Truck...Grab your DunkinDonuts coffee...Let's go!Ivan

www.youtube.com

If you don't want to spend an hour of your life that you'll never get back watching some nerdy oscilloscope work, i'll give you the cliff notes.

The owner had an elusive issue where the truck would just randomly shut off. Dealers and independent shops misdiagnosed it and the owner never had any luck using the parts cannon.

In the video, Pine Hollow was able to track the problem down to an aftermarket ignition coil from Ebay that was allowing electrical noise to backfeed into the PCM, causing it to randomly shut down.

 

[Ken226]

My 2017 5.7 HEMI isn't anywhere like this.

My truck is also "bone stock" and @ 53,000 miles... I'm using Red Line 5w/30 and an Purolator Boss oil filter and cold start up oil psi is ~55-58 psi.

Cruising at 70 highway speeds is 53-55 psi.

Hot idle is 48-49 psi.

When I was using an Royal Purple 20-820 oil filter and Red Line 5w/30, these numbers were exact.

Conclusion, not every HEMI engine is the same.

It sounds like you are using a completely different oil and filter than I am, so wouldn't it stand to reason that your oil pressure readings would be totally different?

BTW: Where are you getting your oil filters? The Purolator Boss is on my list of filters to try. Are you using the PBL24651?

 

[Sherman Bird]

I will poke around tomorrow and look at the wiring. I know for sure I landed both ground wires on the back of the heads and made them tight. Those are the only 2 ground wires I disturbed.

GM determined that static electricity generated by the serpentine belt during engine operation of the Quad4 was the culprit. Their fix was to redesign the harmonic balancer with a ground jumper to mitigate the problem.

Newer vehicles are made with dozens of pathways for EMF, RFI, and static discharge. Their el-cheap-o answer is to incorporate filter capacitors into the modules to mitigate these problems just until the warranty period has ended. Once these filter capacitors degrade, they become inductive.... further exacerbating these issues.

A high end DSO (digital storage oscilloscope) shows damped sine waves resulting from ignition leaking into the vehicle's main wiring harness. These AC waves are, when measured, to be proven that either they are from fluorescent light emittances or secondary ignition leakage. Measuring the time base proves out which is which.

I cured one case study GMC truck with EATC (electronic automatic temperature control) after it ate 7 A/C control heads by simply grounding the valve covers on it's 5.3L engine due to prolific intrusion of secondary EMF into the vehicle's wiring harness. Through the use of my PICO scope, I was able to isolate the cause to the juxtaposition of this wiring harness to the #1 and #3 ignition coils. Incredibly, the ground plane of the coil bracket, bolted to the valve covers had no path to ground to mitigate EMF.

An Ohm meter proved that the aluminum valve covers were isolated from engine ground by rubber grommets on the bolts and rubber gaskets. Where was all that EMF from 4 ignition coils going to go?

GM engineers chose to mitigate this powerful force using filter capacitors in the ECM. I grounded the valve covers instead, and gave that pent up energy a less resistive path to ground. Problem solve. A couple of month later, the customer called me and stated that the A/C was cooling better than ever, and that the engine runs smoother than it has in a very long time.

Back in the day, I found that aftermarket serpentine belts were the bane of life for Dodge/ Chrysler mini vans with V-6's. Their cure was to bend over and pay the nearly 100 dollar price tag for genuine MOPAR belts.

Although this post is in the weeds germane to the subject, it proves the point that finding culprits for problems in these new-fangled cars and trucks can be extremely challenging.

 

[Sherman Bird]

I will poke around tomorrow and look at the wiring. I know for sure I landed both ground wires on the back of the heads and made them tight. Those are the only 2 ground wires I disturbed.

If you can do it, put star washers between the ground wire terminals and the surface where they are bolted down. That little trick was taught to me by an astute GM instructor back in the very early 80's, and has really been a lifesaver more times than I can count.

 

[dchapma1957]

The reason I asked is that I remember a video from Pine Hollow Diagnostics.

Each of the videos is about 30 minutes


Part 1

Dodge Truck Stalls on Highway case study -Part 1 (Staten Island Ep. 8.6)

This is as bizarre as they get. This 2004 Dodge Ram randomly decides to shut off while accelerating on to the highway. No DTCs are stored. Luckily, we can re...

www.youtube.com

part 2

Dodge Truck Stalls on Highway case study -Part 2 (Staten Island Ep. 8.6)

It's a brand new day, and now we have a game plan on how to attack this possessed Dodge Truck...Grab your DunkinDonuts coffee...Let's go!Ivan

www.youtube.com

If you don't want to spend an hour of your life that you'll never get back watching some nerdy oscilloscope work, i'll give you the cliff notes.

The owner had an elusive issue where the truck would just randomly shut off. Dealers and independent shops misdiagnosed it and the owner never had any luck using the parts cannon.

In the video, Pine Hollow was able to track the problem down to an aftermarket ignition coil from Ebay that was allowing electrical noise to backfeed into the PCM, causing it to randomly shut down.

Well, I sure hope it isn't the coils. OEM are like $80 each - ridiculous! And I cannot afford another $700. Unfortunately my originals accidently got tossed out.

 

[Wild one]

Well, I sure hope it isn't the coils. OEM are like $80 each - ridiculous! And I cannot afford another $700. Unfortunately my originals accidently got tossed out.

You could of rebuilt your original coils for alot less then you paid for the amazon coils. Rock Auto sells new boots and springs,and a few minutes with small carbon steel brush in a Dremel cleans up the contact points.20/20 hindsight sucks,lol.

 

[Sherman Bird]

Well, I sure hope it isn't the coils. OEM are like $80 each - ridiculous! And I cannot afford another $700. Unfortunately my originals accidently got tossed out.

My parts source stocks the GM coils for the LS series engines by the hundreds, so there must be problems with them. As these vehicles age, the electrical system and wiring degrade. Replacing the coils without supporting diagnosis is akin to putting a band-aid on a wound needing stitches.

Another point of marketing exploiting ignorance, is the notion that "More is better" when it comes down to ignition coil output. I see ads all the time for the red or yellow "performance" coils that tout higher output, implying that these type coils are better than stock.

When an engine idles, it is at it's highest KV demand from the coils due to that being the time that compression is the highest. As you raise the RPM of the engine, timing is advanced. This means that the ignition event is happening sooner in crankshaft revolution, thus when the piston is lower in the bore, thus at a much lower compression, thus less KV demand! So, how the hell is some "Sparkmaster 10,000" from Binford going to help anything?

Moreover, that higher coil output makes everything leaner in the cylinder, thus causing a lean condition, thus causing higher KV demand. And with enhanced OBD2 electronic engine controls, what logical thinking person doesn't get that the computer, trying to maintain perfect Lambda, can't!?

All that surplus coil energy comes with EMF that HAS to go to ground SOMEWHERE! Many has it been the time that I've retrofitted a stock coil(s) to a poor running car that the hapless customer fell for the hype of "more is better" regarding marketing ploys, that the car ran good again.

 

[dchapma1957]

Well Sherm, I do not believe this is the coils. This morning went to start it and nothing. Starter did not even try to engage. Then it started and ran about 20 seconds and quit - tried to restart it and nothing. No starter, nothing.

So I:
Replaced the battery in the key fob.
Cleaned all the battery terminals.
Reseated the PCN connectors.
Checked all the TIPM Connectors, cleaned and tightened the +12volt cable at the TIPM.
Removed, took apart and cleaned all the contacts in the ignition WIN module.
Swapped the starter relay in the TIPM.

Now interesting - with the ignition in the run position, using a piece of wire I manually engage the starter bypassing the relay and it does not start, it cranks, but it does not start. So I believe whatever is causing it to quit isa also keeping it from starting and it all points to the PCM. But why would that go bad all of the sudden?

 

[DILLIGAF]

PCMs do **** the bed out of the blue. Check the pins and see if its getting power.

 

[Sherman Bird]

Well Sherm, I do not believe this is the coils. This morning went to start it and nothing. Starter did not even try to engage. Then it started and ran about 20 seconds and quit - tried to restart it and nothing. No starter, nothing.

So I:
Replaced the battery in the key fob.
Cleaned all the battery terminals.
Reseated the PCN connectors.
Checked all the TIPM Connectors, cleaned and tightened the +12volt cable at the TIPM.
Removed, took apart and cleaned all the contacts in the ignition WIN module.
Swapped the starter relay in the TIPM.

Now interesting - with the ignition in the run position, using a piece of wire I manually engage the starter bypassing the relay and it does not start, it cranks, but it does not start. So I believe whatever is causing it to quit isa also keeping it from starting and it all points to the PCM. But why would that go bad all of the sudden?

Without my scanner and DSO, I wouldn't even begin to hazard a guess!

 

[Ken226]

Well Sherm, I do not believe this is the coils. This morning went to start it and nothing. Starter did not even try to engage. Then it started and ran about 20 seconds and quit - tried to restart it and nothing. No starter, nothing.

So I:
Replaced the battery in the key fob.
Cleaned all the battery terminals.
Reseated the PCN connectors.
Checked all the TIPM Connectors, cleaned and tightened the +12volt cable at the TIPM.
Removed, took apart and cleaned all the contacts in the ignition WIN module.
Swapped the starter relay in the TIPM.

Now interesting - with the ignition in the run position, using a piece of wire I manually engage the starter bypassing the relay and it does not start, it cranks, but it does not start. So I believe whatever is causing it to quit isa also keeping it from starting and it all points to the PCM. But why would that go bad all of the sudden?

Assuming i'm correct in that this no start/shutting down symptom manifested AFTER you did the cam/lifter swap? It never did this before?

Then it stands to reason that it was probably something done during this job that caused this. Perhaps one of the OEM sensors or electronic parts that got swapped out with aftermarket, or possibly something got manhandled.

Another common cause of electrical gremlins immediately following major engine work is damaged electrical connectors, wires broken free from the terminals inside connectors, and terminals pulled free from inside connectors. It's a really common thing that when guys are in the engine well connecting/un-connecting plugs, lifting heavy parts and moving things around that things get broke.

One of my most frustrating jobs ever was a gremlin caused by a wire conductor being broken inside the insulator, inside a thick harness bundle, with no visible external damage whatsoever, in the occupant restraint system.

Here is an example that i remember from the recent past:

Thought it just ran out of gas

So over a month ago I was sitting in my 2017 1500 5.7 hemi Bighorn late one night or early one morning smoking a cigarette. Something I don't do in the house. Normally don't sit in driveway to do it either in truck but it gets hot in L.A. Lower Alabama so come daylight I was woke up key on truck...

www.ramforum.com

Quote from @Lilhoss77 , in that thread
"Hey yes sir Mr. Ken 226 thanks for the advice and I apologize for not responding sooner but I did make a little progress late in the week and happened to bump a wire going into connector1 on the pcm while laying in the engine compartment upside down touching some other connectors for the 4hunderethand7011thandhalf time. The bumping of said wire woke the electronicly operated fuel injection system and of course I wasn't expecting that or the loud almost roaring loudly ringing sound. RRRRRRRRRRRRR!"

 

[dchapma1957]

Assuming i'm correct in that this no start/shutting down symptom manifested AFTER you did the cam/lifter swap? It never did this before?

Then it stands to reason that it was probably something done during this job that caused this. Perhaps one of the OEM sensors or electronic parts that got swapped out with aftermarket, or possibly something got manhandled.

Another common cause of electrical gremlins immediately following major engine work is damaged electrical connectors, wires broken free from the terminals inside connectors, and terminals pulled free from inside connectors. It's a really common thing that when guys are in the engine well connecting/un-connecting plugs, lifting heavy parts and moving things around that things get broke.

One of my most frustrating jobs ever was a gremlin caused by a wire conductor being broken inside the insulator, inside a thick harness bundle, with no visible external damage whatsoever, in the occupant restraint system.

Here is an example that i remember from the recent past:

Thought it just ran out of gas

So over a month ago I was sitting in my 2017 1500 5.7 hemi Bighorn late one night or early one morning smoking a cigarette. Something I don't do in the house. Normally don't sit in driveway to do it either in truck but it gets hot in L.A. Lower Alabama so come daylight I was woke up key on truck...

www.ramforum.com

Quote from @Lilhoss77 , in that thread
"Hey yes sir Mr. Ken 226 thanks for the advice and I apologize for not responding sooner but I did make a little progress late in the week and happened to bump a wire going into connector1 on the pcm while laying in the engine compartment upside down touching some other connectors for the 4hunderethand7011thandhalf time. The bumping of said wire woke the electronicly operated fuel injection system and of course I wasn't expecting that or the loud almost roaring loudly ringing sound. RRRRRRRRRRRRR!"

I agree. It did not do any of this prior to the engine work. That is why this morning I started reseating connectors. I know I did not miss any grounds, that I am certain of - although I do need to crawl under it and ensure the ground from the heads is securely clipped to the heat shield. While I am under there also going to check wiring to transmission.

Just a few minutes ago I hooked up my ODBC tool to scan for codes. None found but I did a Clear anyway. Cycled the key and it started right up and stayed running. Took it around the block, let it fully warm up, came home and shut it off - and it started right up again.

I guess in the morning I will climb under it and double check connectors, etc. I put all the harnesses back in their factory positions with all the factory harness keepers and such.

I just can't see an MDS or VVT solenoid stopping it from cranking. Those were Rock Auto parts, not Amazon or FleaBay.

 

[Dusty]

The reason I asked is that I remember a video from Pine Hollow Diagnostics.

Each of the videos is about 30 minutes


Part 1

Dodge Truck Stalls on Highway case study -Part 1 (Staten Island Ep. 8.6)

This is as bizarre as they get. This 2004 Dodge Ram randomly decides to shut off while accelerating on to the highway. No DTCs are stored. Luckily, we can re...

www.youtube.com

part 2

Dodge Truck Stalls on Highway case study -Part 2 (Staten Island Ep. 8.6)

It's a brand new day, and now we have a game plan on how to attack this possessed Dodge Truck...Grab your DunkinDonuts coffee...Let's go!Ivan

www.youtube.com

If you don't want to spend an hour of your life that you'll never get back watching some nerdy oscilloscope work, i'll give you the cliff notes.

The owner had an elusive issue where the truck would just randomly shut off. Dealers and independent shops misdiagnosed it and the owner never had any luck using the parts cannon.

In the video, Pine Hollow was able to track the problem down to an aftermarket ignition coil from Ebay that was allowing electrical noise to backfeed into the PCM, causing it to randomly shut down.

Many of these cheap(er) electrical components, besides not always solving the problem, can often induce new problems. Ignition coils and various engine sensors seem to be the worse culprits. I could pass on quite a few stories of issues caused by non-OEM parts, but you get my drift. Ivan (Pine Hollow) finds a lot of them because other shops couldn't resolve the problem using aftermarket.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 120191 miles.

 

[JHoward]

It sounds like you are using a completely different oil and filter than I am, so wouldn't it stand to reason that your oil pressure readings would be totally different?

BTW: Where are you getting your oil filters? The Purolator Boss is on my list of filters to try. Are you using the PBL24651?

I'm currently using the Purolator Boss PBL24651 and will doing an oci very soon and will be using that filter again.

I can get the Purolator Boss oil filter at Tractor Supply Company and Advanced Auto off the shelf.

 

[J-13GTP]

Just to beat a dead horse I have the very same pump, didn't change the spring it runs a little more then "normal pressure". It has on colder days reached 80 psi with no issues but as it warms up it reaches low to mid 70's.

Now to your issue. Just a thought, on a day that it wont start get under the hood and move your harness around in spots. If it starts, do the same thing move your harness around a bit. You may find that if the harness is moved it may cause something to happen. Only other thing to do is start data logging to see if you can find the anomaly.

 

[Sherman Bird]

PCMs do **** the bed out of the blue. Check the pins and see if its getting power.

It's pretty rare.