Omg Is this the fall cp4 announcement we've been waiting for

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

Billet Bee

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Posts
454
Reaction score
341
Location
South Dakota
Ram Year
2020
Engine
Cummins 6.7 HOHD
I just read this story on Google and can't believe Im hours behind on this news. If your like me and a nervous wreck over our cp4 potential glitter bomb just waiting in the weeds to get us all. You must read this story and maybe it will give you some hope like it does me that ram / stalantas will be forced to write this wrong that they new about since late 19. What ticks me off is i ordered my 20 model in Feb 2020 and got it off the train in mid April and they new about this the whole time they were still putting them on the 2020s. I love my ram but my only complaint is the worry we have being really heavy hauling full time rvers is that my pump goes out and I lose all power. If ram has to replace this for the new 2021 version then i will have zero complaints or regrets.
Plus I was just 1 of the probably hundreds or maybe even thousands that has filed a complaint to the nhtsa and I'm glad there were many more concerned owners out there, thank you all. Here's the link to story.
 

chri5k

Senior Member
Supporting Member
Joined
May 24, 2019
Posts
1,925
Reaction score
2,902
Location
USA
Ram Year
2016
Engine
Diesel
Don’t get too excited. This only the beginning of their investigation. It may or may not result in a recall. Could still take several years to go from initial investigation to recall.
 
OP
OP
Billet Bee

Billet Bee

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Posts
454
Reaction score
341
Location
South Dakota
Ram Year
2020
Engine
Cummins 6.7 HOHD
Don’t get too excited. This only the beginning of their investigation. It may or may not result in a recall. Could still take several years to go from initial investigation to recall.
Ohhh I know, it just felt like a shot in the arm of hope to see that story today. These things can take years to work through the system. All I care about is our safety and not spending 17k on a complete new fuel system. I figure for the first 3 years we should be covered under warranty unless you get a sketchy dealership that wont do anything but from years 3-5 it starts to get a little grey if they would cover it or not. Just don't want to lose all power and brakes running 70mph with a 26k fiver on my back. I do wish ram had done the right thing before it was forced upon then but that's how it works i guess.
 

crash68

ACME product engineer
Staff member
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2016
Posts
10,698
Reaction score
16,704
Ram Year
2015
Engine
3.0 EcoDiesel
24 failures out of 600,000 trucks?
I bet there have been that many if not more engine failures Cummins or Hemi, same goes for transmission. It would be interesting to see if the internet ramblings of a mass replacement of HPFP come to fruition, most likely it will be a retrofitted part if the original fails.
 
OP
OP
Billet Bee

Billet Bee

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Posts
454
Reaction score
341
Location
South Dakota
Ram Year
2020
Engine
Cummins 6.7 HOHD
24 failures out of 600,000 trucks?
I bet there have been that many if not more engine failures Cummins or Hemi, same goes for transmission. It would be interesting to see if the internet ramblings of a mass replacement of HPFP come to fruition, most likely it will be a retrofitted part if the original fails.
I thought that 24 number was crap as well. I've seen at least that many on other ram forums. Not sure how they came up with that number
 

olyelr

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2018
Posts
4,673
Reaction score
3,418
Location
Kewadin MI
Ram Year
2016
Engine
6.4
I thought that 24 number was crap as well. I've seen at least that many on other ram forums. Not sure how they came up with that number
Is it possible that is all the legit cases that have been actually filed through a dealer, rather than just people ******** about it on the internet? No clue…just asking.
 

GTyankee

Senior Member
Supporting Member
Military
Joined
Nov 2, 2020
Posts
10,059
Reaction score
12,600
Location
El Cajon Calif. 92021
Ram Year
2016
Engine
3.0 ecodiesel
It is more likely that has been many more than 24

But not all dealers would have reported anything about a fluke loss of power.

Unless Stellantis asks for all dealers to look at their records for similar power failures, they won't know the true number of people that complained.

Stellantis can't very well post messages on Facebook, etc. & ask people to email their complaint in.

That is why i have mentioned several times to members that have a safety issue, fill out the form at Safety.org, i think that is the name of the NHTSA complaint dept.
 
OP
OP
Billet Bee

Billet Bee

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Posts
454
Reaction score
341
Location
South Dakota
Ram Year
2020
Engine
Cummins 6.7 HOHD
It is more likely that has been many more than 24

But not all dealers would have reported anything about a fluke loss of power.

Unless Stellantis asks for all dealers to look at their records for similar power failures, they won't know the true number of people that complained.

Stellantis can't very well post messages on Facebook, etc. & ask people to email their complaint in.

That is why i have mentioned several times to members that have a safety issue, fill out the form at Safety.org, i think that is the name of the NHTSA complaint dept.
I did it and would highly urge anyone with a 19 &20 model to do the same because the most extreme case scenario would be dying from an accident. Yes maybe a little dramatic but losing all brakes and power steering In a traffic situation with a trailer in tow could result in something really bad happening to your FAMILY or an innocent family just driving along. Then there is the 5-17k it could cost you in repairs and if your a cheap sob like me then that's a big deal.
This is my favorite paragraph of all. It clearly shows they new, but what exactly does it mean??????
"It says that in November 2019, Fiat Chrysler (now Stellantis), maker of the trucks, issued a warranty bulletin to dealers telling them to collect fuel pumps on the trucks."
So what exactly does that mean because they told dealers at the end of 19 to collect fuel pumps from the trucks. Does that mean starting in December of 19 that fuel pumps should of been taken off and collected and replaced because those of you like me who bought a 20 model it should of been swapped out before taking ownership? As we all know the pump was officially changed on all 21 models during production.
 

tnpete

Junior Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2019
Posts
27
Reaction score
8
Location
West Tn
Ram Year
2022
Engine
6.7
Wonder if they will do the normal deal. Extened the Warranty out a few more years. Let it ride as most company's do.
 
OP
OP
Billet Bee

Billet Bee

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Posts
454
Reaction score
341
Location
South Dakota
Ram Year
2020
Engine
Cummins 6.7 HOHD
Wonder if they will do the normal deal. Extened the Warranty out a few more years. Let it ride as most company's do.
Boy that would be nice to hear. What other auto manufacturers had done that?
 

bigcitymike

Junior Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2020
Posts
28
Reaction score
9
Location
Somewheresville
Ram Year
2019
Engine
6.7
24 failures out of 600,000 trucks?
I bet there have been that many if not more engine failures Cummins or Hemi, same goes for transmission. It would be interesting to see if the internet ramblings of a mass replacement of HPFP come to fruition, most likely it will be a retrofitted part if the original fails.

Only 24 failures? HAHAHA!

My local po-dunk dealer has done at least a half a dozen if not more glitter bomb repairs. Some under warranty and some not. All of them CP4 designs (v1 and v2). There's no way the 24 failure number is accurate. Fiat/Ram knew there was a problem, that's they did a mid-year update from the CP4 to CP4.2 in 2020 (CP4 - Asymetrical --> CP4.2 - Symetrical), and ultimately reverted back to a CP3 design for the 2021's.
 

crash68

ACME product engineer
Staff member
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2016
Posts
10,698
Reaction score
16,704
Ram Year
2015
Engine
3.0 EcoDiesel
All of them CP4 designs (v1 and v2). There's no way the 24 failure number is accurate. Fiat/Ram knew there was a problem, that's they did a mid-year update from the CP4 to CP4.2 in 2020 (CP4 - Asymetrical --> CP4.2 - Symetrical), and ultimately reverted back to a CP3 design for the 2021's.
Sounds great but unfortunately all the HPFPs on the 19-20 model year Cummins are the CP4.2, which could have either a symmetrical or asymmetrical cam design. The CP4.1 is a single pumping element used in smaller diesel engines, all of the pumps are commonly referred to as a CP4
 

mdc1990zr1

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2019
Posts
212
Reaction score
389
Location
Conshohocken, PA
Ram Year
2016
Engine
Hemi 5.7
Boy that would be nice to hear. What other auto manufacturers had done that?
I have a 1998 Chevrolet C3500 with the 6.5TD. They had a bad run of injection pumps. The warranty on these was extended out to 11 years/120K miles. While I don't believe this situation was a bad run of injection pumps, I had mine replaced with 3 months left on warranty. I believed then, and still believe now, that my engine was built for regular old diesel fuel. With the government mandate of low sulfur diesel and now ultra-low sulfur diesel, the lubricity of the fuel changed and not for the better. I have been able to keep my diesel going real strong by adding Power Service additives in the winter and TCW-3 two stroke oil in the summer to my fuel. This, I believe, has increased the lubricity of the fuel going through the injection pump. I have replaced the missing sulfur, which was used to lubricate, with something else.
This is the same scenario that happened with leaded gas. The lead was there for lubricity. When the lead was taken out, the older vehicles that required the lead for the valve train suffered catastrophic failure because of the missing lubricity. The new unleaded fuel was backwards compatible as to enabling the vehicle to run, but detrimental to the engine's longevity.
Same situation with the Hemi valve train. The engine was designed with the motor oil rating/composition of the time, the 1990's. The latest oils have decreased the lubricity in the oil in favor of cleaner burning oils. Combined with a lower viscosity and extended oil change intervals, this pattern is proving detrimental to the Hemi valve train. If you read through the forum, you will see that an older version of oil, RedLine, and a higher viscosity, has proven to extend, if not solve, the Hemi valve train issue.
Newer isn't always better.
 

18CrewDually

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2019
Posts
2,012
Reaction score
2,583
Location
U.S.- New Jersey
Ram Year
2018
Engine
Cummins 6.7 H.O.
I have a 1998 Chevrolet C3500 with the 6.5TD. They had a bad run of injection pumps. The warranty on these was extended out to 11 years/120K miles. While I don't believe this situation was a bad run of injection pumps, I had mine replaced with 3 months left on warranty. I believed then, and still believe now, that my engine was built for regular old diesel fuel. With the government mandate of low sulfur diesel and now ultra-low sulfur diesel, the lubricity of the fuel changed and not for the better. I have been able to keep my diesel going real strong by adding Power Service additives in the winter and TCW-3 two stroke oil in the summer to my fuel. This, I believe, has increased the lubricity of the fuel going through the injection pump. I have replaced the missing sulfur, which was used to lubricate, with something else.
This is the same scenario that happened with leaded gas. The lead was there for lubricity. When the lead was taken out, the older vehicles that required the lead for the valve train suffered catastrophic failure because of the missing lubricity. The new unleaded fuel was backwards compatible as to enabling the vehicle to run, but detrimental to the engine's longevity.
Same situation with the Hemi valve train. The engine was designed with the motor oil rating/composition of the time, the 1990's. The latest oils have decreased the lubricity in the oil in favor of cleaner burning oils. Combined with a lower viscosity and extended oil change intervals, this pattern is proving detrimental to the Hemi valve train. If you read through the forum, you will see that an older version of oil, RedLine, and a higher viscosity, has proven to extend, if not solve, the Hemi valve train issue.
Newer isn't always better.
The issue back then we had was actually the driver module on the side of the injection pump. The heat would kill them and shut the engine off usually while working the truck going down the road. The few we had in our fleet we modified by moving the module off of the injection pump & to the wheel well area and extending the harness wires.
The warranty was extended back then on the pump because Stanadyne didn't offer the module separately for replacement for years but there are several options out there to do the mod. nowadays.
 

Moose2

Senior Member
Military
Joined
Aug 28, 2021
Posts
1,307
Reaction score
925
Location
Iowa
The 24 number was just the number of people that signed on for the class action, not the failure number. The lawyers will be mail bombing owners of the 19-20 trucks soon enough. Lawyers will get rich and the rest of us will get less than expected. I am thankful that I didn’t strike a “deal” on a 500mile 2019 limited last year. I had suspicions about that vehicle and got a different story from dealer every time. Some poor sucker bought it......condolences.
 

mdc1990zr1

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2019
Posts
212
Reaction score
389
Location
Conshohocken, PA
Ram Year
2016
Engine
Hemi 5.7
The issue back then we had was actually the driver module on the side of the injection pump. The heat would kill them and shut the engine off usually while working the truck going down the road. The few we had in our fleet we modified by moving the module off of the injection pump & to the wheel well area and extending the harness wires.
The warranty was extended back then on the pump because Stanadyne didn't offer the module separately for replacement for years but there are several options out there to do the mod. nowadays.
Not quite, two separate issues. My injection pump was covered under the 11-year/120K mile warranty and replace. That did not include the driver module. My driver module was still good according to the Chevrolet dealer and it was left under the intake manifold. After the warranty work on the injection pump, I did relocate driver module outside and behind the bumper with the extension harness. Injection pumps did go bad either one of two ways. One was lower lubricity in the fuel, and two, the failure of the driver module. That is why they made an update to the seals in the warranty replacement injection pumps.
 

18CrewDually

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2019
Posts
2,012
Reaction score
2,583
Location
U.S.- New Jersey
Ram Year
2018
Engine
Cummins 6.7 H.O.
Not quite, two separate issues. My injection pump was covered under the 11-year/120K mile warranty and replace. That did not include the driver module. My driver module was still good according to the Chevrolet dealer. After the warranty work on the injection pump, I did relocate that driver module outside and behind the bumper with the extension harness. I did not replace that module until it failed sometime later. Injection pumps did go bad either one of two ways. One was lower lubricity in the fuel, and two, the failure of the driver module. That is why they made an update to the seals in the warranty replacement injection pumps.
Luckily we dumped them from the fleet before it got to that.
 

mdc1990zr1

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2019
Posts
212
Reaction score
389
Location
Conshohocken, PA
Ram Year
2016
Engine
Hemi 5.7
Luckily we dumped them from the fleet before it got to that.
I took care of the few problems that those motors had. Forums like this highlighted the future problems. A little extra chemistry adding the additives, but it runs great. 170K plus miles and runs like a ***** ape. No high pressure fuel injectors, no cats and no DFE. Injector replacement was supposed to be at 100K miles, still on the original and have new, made in Germany, OEM injectors waiting to go in. The fuel additives have made a big difference in the way the motor runs and on the longevity of the parts.
 

Treburkulosis

Your High End Detailer
TOTM Winner
Joined
Mar 21, 2016
Posts
6,109
Reaction score
8,472
Location
Haslet, TX
Ram Year
2012 Lonestar Edition converted over to a Sport
Engine
5.7 Hemi
I have a 1998 Chevrolet C3500 with the 6.5TD. They had a bad run of injection pumps. The warranty on these was extended out to 11 years/120K miles. While I don't believe this situation was a bad run of injection pumps, I had mine replaced with 3 months left on warranty. I believed then, and still believe now, that my engine was built for regular old diesel fuel. With the government mandate of low sulfur diesel and now ultra-low sulfur diesel, the lubricity of the fuel changed and not for the better. I have been able to keep my diesel going real strong by adding Power Service additives in the winter and TCW-3 two stroke oil in the summer to my fuel. This, I believe, has increased the lubricity of the fuel going through the injection pump. I have replaced the missing sulfur, which was used to lubricate, with something else.
This is the same scenario that happened with leaded gas. The lead was there for lubricity. When the lead was taken out, the older vehicles that required the lead for the valve train suffered catastrophic failure because of the missing lubricity. The new unleaded fuel was backwards compatible as to enabling the vehicle to run, but detrimental to the engine's longevity.
Same situation with the Hemi valve train. The engine was designed with the motor oil rating/composition of the time, the 1990's. The latest oils have decreased the lubricity in the oil in favor of cleaner burning oils. Combined with a lower viscosity and extended oil change intervals, this pattern is proving detrimental to the Hemi valve train. If you read through the forum, you will see that an older version of oil, RedLine, and a higher viscosity, has proven to extend, if not solve, the Hemi valve train issue.
Newer isn't always better.
We had a 94 3500 Dually bought new and man it ate injector pumps like crazy. Sometimes you could get a year or two and then other times it might go out in a week. Gutless trucks as well. Even with a stick. Ice cold a/c's and comfortable interior. Just crap design. After the I believe it was 88k mark and them replacing 2-3 that year they said they were done doing it for free. I was sold shortly afterwards. I always loved when you would be going 60-70 mph and it die. Clutch in crank, crank, crank and hope it would restart. They were really a danger to anyone driving them.
 
Top