On battery hookup truck cranks no key in?

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Hardracer

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I threw this question to an old timer here at work....I didn't even finish getting the question/problem out he blurts out check the solenoid or he said sometimes the battery cable on the starter near that s terminal could be touching....
All I got to offer...lol
 
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lance1586

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Did my due diligence, sort of, and replaced the starter relay. No change as soon as you touch the ground cable to the battery the starter starts to engage. . . So; guess I’m chasing a shirt in one of those wires then?
 

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Did my due diligence, sort of, and replaced the starter relay. No change as soon as you touch the ground cable to the battery the starter starts to engage. . . So; guess I’m chasing a shirt in one of those wires then?

Have you removed the wire from terminal S on the solenoid yet and then reconnect the battery?

.
 
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lance1586

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Replaced the starter solenoid and it’s still grounding and trying to engage the starter. So off I go to try and run down this short which I don’t really know how to do other than visually inspect every mm of the wires?
 
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lance1586

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Yes I did so guess it’s the main power supply that’s shorting out
 

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Yes I did so guess it’s the main power supply that’s shorting out

I posted the schematic drawing so you could see how incredibly simple this starting circuit is. That's about it, no hidden mystery power supplies.

If you don't understand something in the circuit diagram, please ask.

I'm doing my best to help you but I need your assistance and cooperation because you're closer to the truck.

I've asked 3 times, all the way back to my first post and still have yet to get an answer.

Here goes for the forth time.

Have you removed the small gauged wire from the S terminal on the solenoid and then connected the battery?


PS: Be sure insulate the wire or lug from the S terminal after disconnecting it. From the information you have provided, that wire may have 12 volts at all times.
.
 
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lance1586

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Yep, unhooked the ignitio wire from the starter. Still wants to crank. So, I’ve replaced the starter, starter relays and unplugged the ignition switch (the big C shaped plug) under the column and it’s still arcing and wants to crank.
 
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lance1586

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Sorry I’m working and navigating this site from a 4” iPhone it’s not optimal for being on a forum but it’s what I can use when I’m working. I wasn’t blowing you off and unhooked the ignition wire from the starter and it still shorts out. So, I put a magnum starter on it. Still shorted, then did the starter relay, still shorted, then I unhooked the ignition wire from under the column still shorting. I’m out of time to mess with it for now leaving for Tulsa in the am. It’s gotta be a dead short in the main power supply line to the starter. I know it’s a simple system and am clear on its function. Just replacing stuff as it can’t hurt anyway. I’m out of compliments to replace now and it’s time to find my shirt in the wire.
 

RamDiver

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So just to be clear, there is nothing connected to the S terminal on the solenoid and it cranks immediately, when you connect the battery?

The two large binding posts on the solenoid are simply acting as a switch to deliver 12v from the battery to the starter.

One side is connected directly to the battery and the other to the starter.

If there is nothing on the S terminal and the two large binding point are not bridged or shorted together, the next step would be to trace the large wire between the solenoid and the starter and try to determine how that wire is receiving the 12v power.

Forget about some shorted main power supply, it doesn't exist. The diagram is more or less all there is for the starter system.

These trucks have lots of complexity but not with the starter circuit.

Could you post a closeup picture of the solenoid terminals?

.
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lance1586

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As I’ve tried telling you I DID unhook the little ignition wire and it still shorted. There is nothing to see it’s a brand new starter with power and ignition wire on it. I’m not retired and sitting at a computer I work every day and am a bachelor. I work on my own junk. Again, wasn’t blowing you off or ignoring you. So, through process of elimination it has to be a dead short in the main power wire running to the starter since it engages with the little wire off and the ignition switch unplugged.
 

RamDiver

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OK, I understand. I was a bit concerned that you insisted on using different terms and just wanted to be certain we were discussing the same item.

Remote troubleshooting can get tricky sometimes. :cool:

Hopefully, you can get enough light in there to inspect the path of the starter power wire.

I'm not familiar with the specific wiring path on your truck. Sometimes, a dental mirror and a good light source might help.

.
 
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lance1586

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Yes it tried to crank with the little ignition wire off of it. There are only two wires going to the starter? A fat power supply and a skinny ignition wire? What am i missing? If it cranks with the skinny wire on it that only leaves the fat wire that is energized and the only thing hooked to the starter when the little wire is unhooked. And again, new starter and new relay and the big ignition plug the C shaped one under the column. I’ll try to crawl under there tonight when I get off work and take a pic from up top I guess? Truck has long tubes on it and it’s hard to get an eyeball on it
 
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lance1586

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Cranks with the skinny wire off of it. . Typo. Again skinny wire off still cranked.
 
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lance1586

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Money shot of the starter removed a couple wires to get s clear shot. First is of the relay. Yeah, one wire is chafed a bit.
 

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lance1586

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Whoops this is the better pic.
 

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RamDiver

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Thanks for the update and pics.

As an FYI, in the lower left corner of your posts, there's a tiny edit button.

It might be difficult to see while using a phone and an advanced warning for you, editing your own posts is a bit tricky while using a phone.

I edit mine often, It does get easier with practice.

If you have the time, I would encourage you to edit out all typos and mistakes for two important reasons.

1) whenever anyone is assisting you here, they likely have so many similar faults on the go, often, it's necessary to quickly reread the thread from the start to refresh the info for your specific issue.

2) when other users with similar faults as there own are trying to follow the troubleshooting stages in your thread, the info gets a bit confusing with errors followed by corrections and updates in the next post.

This practice of keeping the information accurate and correct will greatly assist others using your thread to solve their own difficulties. Thanks in advance for your efforts and paying it forward to future users.

.
 

RamDiver

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I went on such a rant in that previous post, I wanted to leave it isolated from our mission.

I refer you back to the schematic drawing, there should be 3 wires minimum on the starter solenoid relay.

1) The small gauge ignition switch wire connected to the S or Sol terminal.

2) A large wire connected directly to 12 volts from the battery

3) A second large wire connected to the starter.

Please confirm you have these 3 connections and that you don't see anything bridging or shorting them together.

Leave the ignition wire disconnected from the S terminal and protected from shorting against the chassis.

I wonder if the previous owner rewired this area. That black plug looks a bit irregular and I don't see two distinctly large wires for the battery and starter connections.

If you can post the make and model of the starter solenoid, we can discuss the specific connections and where they should be connected.

I tried to find the starter solenoid in your pic using both text and image search, I had no luck.

We should be 100% certain of all of the connections on the solenoid before proceeding. I've included the next steps to pursue once we're done with the solenoid connections.

If a visual inspection of the large wire from the solenoid to the starter is not productive, move to the next step below.

Identify and remove the large wire that connects from the solenoid to the starter. Insulate this wire from shorting to the chassis. You might as well try the battery test again because it's quick and easy. If it still cranks, leave the large wire feeding the starter disconnected from the solenoid and well-insulated. See the next step.

With the battery disconnected, connect an ohm meter using alligator clips, between the large wire feeding the starter and chassis ground. Adjust the ohm meter scale setting so that you have a large deflection of the meter (for an analog meter) or a larger number for a digital meter.

Prop the meter in a position that you can manipulate or wiggle the large wire while being careful to not move the connected alligator clip. More often than not, this is a two-handed task where one hand prevents the alligator clip or that end of the wire from moving while the other hand works on moving the rest of the wire.

When you find a particular area that causes a significant change in the resistance, this may help you to isolate a smaller area of the large wire for visual scrutiny.



I know you're at work or traveling for work. Respond whenever you're next available.

.
 
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Jim BB

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looking at your pic's and reading all of the post I know you have replaced the starter and solenoid ! and it is still doing the same thing ! Have you put your hand on solenoid and feel it click or hear it click when you connect the battery ? and Normally starters have Three (3) wires going to it the big thick battery wire and Two (2) smaller wires is the norm I have done lots of starters and have forgotten or Missed one of the smaller wires and it touch something with same results or the smaller wire touching one of the other wires on the starter ! also on the solenoid is it possible that the connector the wires are touching or some debris making contact seen that before as well ! Not saying that's what it is But just a thought !! could you also tell us the year and model and engine size of the truck plz
 

RamDiver

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Running out of components; not compliments;) Lol!

Don't you just love that auto-correct on the smartphone. I swear, ever since the last Android update, mine is a complete PITA and barely worth having.

For your preliminary search for the shirt (short), :Big Laugh: try a visual inspection. If that isn't productive, another method would be using the ohm meter function on a multimeter.

I added the next steps for troubleshooting in post #38.

.
 
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