Payload + Tongue Weight

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KJackson

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I have a 2019 2500 6.4 liter BH with 4.10 rear. Payload 2970 lbs. Max Tow 16000 lbs. I have two trailer configurations that I am considering. Trailer 1: Fully loaded 6500 lbs. Trailer2: 9100 lbs. fully loaded. If I choose Trailer 1, I need to haul an additional 1000 lbs. of material in the truck bed as there is no additional room on the trailer. Trailer 2 fully loaded can carry up to 2000 lbs. of material on the trailer or 9100 lbs.

Here is the question: Trailer 1 tongue weight at 10% -15% = 650 - 950 lbs. respectively. If I add 1000 lbs. of material in the bed of the truck, have I exceeded the Max Towing Capacity? Simplified question. What effect does payload have on towing capacity?

Thank you!

KJack
 

18CrewDually

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ANY sprung weight added to the truck is subtracted from your max payload. This includes people, tongue weight, material added to the bed, ect. Even the hitch you add to the receiver to tow. Anything that makes the springs go down.
 

mtofell

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I agree with 18CrewDually but don't see how in either scenario you're up near your +/- 3000# payload. Trailer #1 with worst case tongue weight of 950# + the 1000# of gear still leaves you with 1000# for people, etc.
 

18CrewDually

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I will add one thing. I personally only watch axle weights and tire weight ratings. These are the weights that are checked for enforcement at scale houses and such. Don't go over. Your rear tires may be your limiting factor especially if you changed out the wheel/tires for something not designed for the weight.
 
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KJackson

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ANY sprung weight added to the truck is subtracted from your max payload. This includes people, tongue weight, material added to the bed, ect. Even the hitch you add to the receiver to tow. Anything that makes the springs go down.
Thank you 18CrewDually! I understand how the total weight of everything in the truck (including fuel, passengers, cargo, etc, is subtracted from the Max Payload to determine the trucks limit. I'm wondering if an additional 1000 lbs. of material pushing down primarily the rear suspension + the trailer tongue weight is part of the calculation. From your reply, it sounds like it doesn't . I'm really trying to determine the limit of material that I can put in the bed before steering / handling are potentially effected.
I agree with 18CrewDually but don't see how in either scenario you're up near your +/- 3000# payload. Trailer #1 with worst case tongue weight of 950# + the 1000# of gear still leaves you with 1000# for people, etc.
Thank you mtofell for the reply. A hypothetical: If I were to Max out Payload (2970 lbs.) majority in the bed, could I still tow a 6500 lbs. trailer?

Thanks,

KJack
 

Irishthreeper

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Payload and towing capacity are mostly independent from each other. PL is
how much weight you load onto or into your truck, towing capacity is how much you can be pulling. In most cases you’ll run out of PL before towing capacity or GCWR. Your situation sounds like you’ll be good on both factors and you should be under axle ratings too. I would check to see what class hitch you have and make sure it could handle the tongue weight of the bigger trailer. It would likely be well over 1k lbs.
 
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KJackson

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ANY sprung weight added to the truck is subtracted from your max payload. This includes people, tongue weight, material added to the bed, ect. Even the hitch you add to the receiver to tow. Anything that makes the springs go down.
Thank you for the reply 18CreDually. I understand the total weight of everything in the truck, including fuel, passengers, gear is subtracted from the Max Payload to determine if payload is exceeded. I'm trying to get an idea of how much (no more than 1000 lbs. of material can I haul in the bed while towing. In my head, I see the rear squatting and potential issues handling. As you can probably tell this is pretty new for me. My poor towing experience has been with a much lighter truck and 600 lbs. trailer.

Thanks,
KJack
 

dhay13

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I towed a 9300lb TT with my 2018 that has 2973lbs of payload and wasn't even close to maxing out. I had 1100lbs of tongue weight with that TT.
 

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Thank you 18CrewDually! I understand how the total weight of everything in the truck (including fuel, passengers, cargo, etc, is subtracted from the Max Payload to determine the trucks limit. I'm wondering if an additional 1000 lbs. of material pushing down primarily the rear suspension + the trailer tongue weight is part of the calculation. From your reply, it sounds like it doesn't . I'm really trying to determine the limit of material that I can put in the bed before steering / handling are potentially effected.

Thank you mtofell for the reply. A hypothetical: If I were to Max out Payload (2970 lbs.) majority in the bed, could I still tow a 6500 lbs. trailer?

Thanks,

KJack

You would need to know the trucks actual LOADED weight + trailer loaded weight, add together and see if it under the trucks maximum CGVWR.
(Combined gross vehicle weight rating)

For example my truck loaded is 9,850 + trailer 14,850 = 24,700 CGVW but my truck is rated at 32,000 so I'm fine there.
My trucks rear axle is rated for 9,750 but weighs only 6,800,
and front axle rated for 6,000 but is below at 5,740. The truck alone is rated at 14,000 GVW but at this combo comes in at 12,540. So you can see I'm below all the max weights permitted so it tows it in accordance. Thankfully it's a dually.

Its alot of numbers but only takes basic math. You can probably find a towing calculator on the web to fill in the blanks and it will figure it out for you.
 
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KJackson

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Payload and towing capacity are mostly independent from each other. PL is
how much weight you load onto or into your truck, towing capacity is how much you can be pulling. In most cases you’ll run out of PL before towing capacity or GCWR. Your situation sounds like you’ll be good on both factors and you should be under axle ratings too. I would check to see what class hitch you have and make sure it could handle the tongue weight of the bigger trailer. It would likely be well over 1k lbs.
Thank you for the reply Irishreeper. Good information I haven't purchased the hitch yet, because I'm still deciding, although leaning toward the 6500 lbs. 18'x6' trailer vs. 9100 lbs. 20'x8' trailer.
I towed a 9300lb TT with my 2018 that has 2973lbs of payload and wasn't even close to maxing out. I had 1100lbs of tongue weight with that TT.
Thank you for the reply dhay.
 
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KJackson

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You would need to know the trucks actual LOADED weight + trailer loaded weight, add together and see if it under the trucks maximum CGVWR.
(Combined gross vehicle weight rating)

For example my truck loaded is 9,850 + trailer 14,850 = 24,700 CGVW but my truck is rated at 32,000 so I'm fine there.
My trucks rear axle is rated for 9,750 but weighs only 6,800,
and front axle rated for 6,000 but is below at 5,740. The truck alone is rated at 14,000 GVW but at this combo comes in at 12,540. So you can see I'm below all the max weights permitted so it tows it in accordance. Thankfully it's a dually.

Its alot of numbers but only takes basic math. You can probably find a towing calculator on the web to fill in the blanks and it will figure it out for you.
18CrewDually, that is the information (formula) I was looking for. With that, I can determine how much material I can haul in the bed with the trailer fully loaded (6500 lbs.) I appreciate your help!

Thanks,

KJack
 

mtofell

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Thank you 18CrewDually! I understand how the total weight of everything in the truck (including fuel, passengers, cargo, etc, is subtracted from the Max Payload to determine the trucks limit. I'm wondering if an additional 1000 lbs. of material pushing down primarily the rear suspension + the trailer tongue weight is part of the calculation. From your reply, it sounds like it doesn't . I'm really trying to determine the limit of material that I can put in the bed before steering / handling are potentially effected.

Thank you mtofell for the reply. A hypothetical: If I were to Max out Payload (2970 lbs.) majority in the bed, could I still tow a 6500 lbs. trailer?

Thanks,

KJack
Likely yes with what you propose. As you look at towing and numbers the best thing to do is completely separate what you carry (payload) and what you pull (towing/hauling). The root of the problem is that manufacturers love to convolute these numbers to brag about the best of them and make you buy their truck. In reality the numbers are totally different. Most trucks run up against payload first but not always. Again, differentiate what you are CARRYING (pin/tongue weight, people, firewood in the bed, lattes in the cup holders) vs. what you are PULLING (trailers). The devil is in the details as the saying goes.
 

OC455

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(including fuel, passengers, cargo, etc, is subtracted from the Max Payload
Fuel and all fluids is part of your trucks base weight and doesn't go against your payload.
 

OC455

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Until you add a 90 gal. Tank in the bed like I did. Point is before you weigh the truck loaded, top off all your tanks.
As it came from the factory.....full fluids and a full fuel tank. Point is, full fluids and full fuel tank do not go against payload. If you add items (ie: 90 gallon supplemental tank), then it would now affect the payload.
 

Ratman6161

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I have a 2019 2500 6.4 liter BH with 4.10 rear. Payload 2970 lbs. Max Tow 16000 lbs. I have two trailer configurations that I am considering. Trailer 1: Fully loaded 6500 lbs. Trailer2: 9100 lbs. fully loaded. If I choose Trailer 1, I need to haul an additional 1000 lbs. of material in the truck bed as there is no additional room on the trailer. Trailer 2 fully loaded can carry up to 2000 lbs. of material on the trailer or 9100 lbs.

Here is the question: Trailer 1 tongue weight at 10% -15% = 650 - 950 lbs. respectively. If I add 1000 lbs. of material in the bed of the truck, have I exceeded the Max Towing Capacity? Simplified question. What effect does payload have on towing capacity?

Thank you!

KJack
I have almost exactly the same truck as you with almost the same payload except mine is a 2022 and my payload is 2975. Here is what i did.

Before our travel trailer came in i weighed the truck alone with my wife and I (no kids qnd we dont bring the dogs camping), a full tank of gas, a couple of add on accessories ( running boards, floor mats, and Tonneau cover) and all the stuff I usually have in the truck. The CAT scale said I was at 7,460 pounds. Subtract that from my 10000 GVWR and you get 2,540 pounds. I think of that as my "real" payload

On the way home from the dealership with the new travel trailer, I stopped at the CAT scale again. There was nothing in thre trailer but two full 30# propane tanks and two batteries. with the trailer hooked up, the truck increased in weight by 1,020#. 106 of that would be my hitch so the tongue weight was 931# (13.2%). Weight on the trailer axles was 6120# so the trailer weighed 7051# (931+6120). Note: manufacturers adverised dry weight is 6837# so believe the scales, not the advertising.

At this point, I noted that I was still 1520# under max payload. I know tomwithin a few pounds that i will he putting 150# more in the truck and 515# in the trailer. I know this because it's all the same stuff I had in my old truck and trailer combo...so I hav3nt weighed it loaded. I know I'm way under.

I ignore towing capacity. I know I'm never going to hit my 16,700 max so I focus on payload and axle weights. I don't think either of your options will exceed any of your capacities. If I loaded my trailer to its GVWR of 8736# but maintained the 13,2% tongue weight, that would be 1153# and I'd still have 1386# - 150# in the bed or about 1237# remaining. But also be aware of how much weight you are lifting off of the front axle. 1000# in the trailer = 132# on my truck (at my 13.2%). But 1000# in the bed is all on the truck and all on the rear axle. I would definitely be using a weight distributing hitch either way and re-adjust the hitch with everything loaded as it 2ill be on the road.

My 2 cents worth. My truck hauls my trailer like a dream (but let's not start the mpg discussion yet again).

Ps: I only have two people to worry about. I would say weigh as I did in my first step wnd the rest will foll9w.
 
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