Power wagon and light slide in camper

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coguzzi

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Long time lurker, first time poster here. I have been ******* after a power wagon for a long time, and finally drove a used '12 at the local Dodge lot last friday, and going to test drive a '15 next week. loved the '12 (not the particular truck since it was neglected) but they tell me the '15 with the 6.4 will blow me away and actually gets better milage.

Anyway, im looking for a truck to replace my 02 toyota tundra as my camper rig. It is a Four Wheel Camper Hawk model, fairly loaded with options, im guessing between 1200-1400 lbs (never weighed it). so lets just say 1300 dry, always loaded with gear, but not water/food unless im going out. I was actually a service manager for four wheel camper for years, we put these in half tons all the time with some suspension mods, and my tundra handled it OK, just ok i would say (i usually carry a motorbike on the back as well--extra 200lbs). its not a daily driver, camper lives in the truck 90% of the time.

So Power wagon has always been on my short list, basically a truck that has everything from the factory i would want to add, and some not possible. factory winch, sway bar disconnect, lockers, skid plates etc. The rubicon of the truck world (i own a rubicon as well, use the sway bar disconnect all the time). older i get the more i appreciate factory built items that all work together.

my issue is load capacity, '12 power wagon (leaf spring) is 1884lbs, the '15 is 1440lbs. crazy leaf vs coil is such a large difference. for comparison, the ram 2500 '12 is 2500lbs and '15 3510lbs. opposite weight rating (coil more).

so my question is from owners, do you think a power wagon is a good idea for a 1300lb four wheel camper hawk? and which generation would you buy? OR, would i be better off buying a 2500 and adding a winch (easier with a bumper probably) and living with out sway bar dissconnect and lockers?
 

regularcab2500

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I just took my truck down some pretty intense jeep trails saturday. This truly tested the offroad capability of my stock truck. I found 4wd could get up most of the steep hills and 4lo worked for the rest. You may not need lockers but a disconnecting swaybar would be nice. My verdict is this truck is designed for minimal flex so if flexing is what you need then a power wagon is the way to go.
 
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coguzzi

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i bet even a stock crew cab 2500 would flex more than my tundra, solid axle vs IFS. I've had my Tundra in rough enough stuff with the camper in it that i was tripoding, or teetering on 2 wheels back and forth to a 3rd wheel. I made it through, but had to do alot of rack stacking. all i have is limited slip to.

so honestly, i bet a 2500 hemi would be an upgrade in capability and cargo capacity, power wagon just takes it to the next level. But, i prefer not to do a bunch of mods to make it work with the camper
 

Brakelate

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What makes the Power Wagon ride so nice, and willing to articulate are the lighter load rated springs, and the addition of a little more ride height and thus travel.

My '12 rides like a car on the highway, and can flex and crawl much better than anything out there. It also is 5x more comfortable, quiet, roomy and confidence inspiring than our new Rubicon Unlimited - which does, by design or heritage still ride like an "old" Jeep. Though in stock trim - After MANY years of building, modding, wheeling and busting knuckles and voiding warranties - have found that when one can afford it, purchasing a complete, "turn key" factory backed and mated unit is far better the way to go. Main differences being back then I had the time, desire and urge to modify, push the limits and learn. Now, instead of paying to fix what I break or want to "upgrade - half of which was a step backwards honestly" the one thing I cam away with is... experience. I now put that amount of cash (or much less) into one simple monthly payment instead of running here and there, and ordering things and spending every evening and weekend at the local Hot Rod / Off Road Performance center.

Now, with either of these extremely capable vehicles, and my skills honed from all those years of tearing **** up, I can get anywhere I want, AND BACK with no damage, total lack of concern regarding if it will make it back and forth to work during the week without calling help, borrowing money or mooching a ride.

Factory is the way to go. Again, IF you can handle the monthly payments.

As far as the original question; Due to the softer suspension, the Power Wagon does sag and go "nose high" with a generator, dirt bike or firewood in the bed. Add my Travel Trailer, and it becomes even more obvious. It drives and pulls fine, but it droops cosmetically, and if you don't adjust your headlamps, EVERY oncoming car will flash their high beams at you all the way home, especially on a dark, undivided two lane highway.

So, answer is, get the PW, then just add a Power Wagon (additional flex resistant) air bag set up out back. You will have the best of both worlds.

As for the Rubicon, I once accustomed to the blind over the hood break over angles, I am far more confident and comfortable in it going anywhere I can get my Rubicon. Sure, the Rubi can squeeze a few tighter switchbacks without a three point turn, but it has so many blind spots and such a low belly, that it drags over damn near everything, and I've already pushed in and scuffed up all four corners of it's silly plastic bumper caps, crushed the beer can muffler and exhaust resonator, and had to change the rear diff fluid once due to water contamination.

I travel the same exact trails (and more) repeatedly, with the Power Wagon, and have had ZERO issues other than a little "Desert Pinstriping" that will polish and wax right out. It fits me "just right".

Many times, the longer wheelbase, additional torque, lower gears and smidge more center ground clearance has been a positive, rather than a negative. Just air down to 25/20 when you leave the highway , and it is King!!! Plus, the way I see it, the Lockers and Winch are just two additional levels of a "self extraction" safety net that are both transparent and factory backed.

The ONLY benefit the Rubicon has over the Power Wagon, is the ability to go completely ******* (soft top) the attention the Jeep gets everywhere it goes due to it's 'fun & freedom' reputation and all the attention you get from both total strangers and other members of the invisible "Jeep" family.

Otherwise, the Power Wagon simply is more versatile, capable, comfortable and plain gets the job done, with little fanfare excluding the few, who recognize what it is and want to see it in action.

Personally, I am glad I got the '12. For the leaf springs and the 4.56 with the 5.7. The newer models have the "bigger motor" but lose a little of that motors advantage with the limiting of the gear ratios to the 4.10s. Plus, I do not like the cylinder deactivation feature, and am concerned about the long term durability of all those molded urethane links and swivel points required to make the coil spring flex as much as the previous models. In addition, they lack little things like the "Low Pressure" tire warning deactivation switch and all the added gawky grill colors and flashy graphics.
Plus, I think my wheel and BFG A/T KO tire combo is of higher quality and look better than the newer wheel design and Goodyear tires they are putting on them now.

How's that for an opinion?

Hope you find the right truck at the right price or you.

:favorites13:
 
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coguzzi

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Brakelate excellent response! i to have spent many a time and $$$ making things work in a modded state, hell, i build VW vanagon syncro (factory 4x4) westfalias as a hobby/part time job, i take it so far i replace the ****** VW power plant with subaru motors. end up being a nice machine, but a lot of work and always need to be maintained. people pay me top $ for them though.

working at four wheel camper, ive done more toyota tacoma builds for customers than i can shake a stick at. EXACTLY why i love things that work right from the factory. modded vehicles almost never perform as good as what factory intended, sometimes they do (old man emu suspension ona tacoma is pretty nice.

Ironincally i modded my rubicon with 500 miles on it, mine is the 2 door. i kept it subtle with the AEV 2.5 suspension lift with 33" tires, and honestly its better than stock. over that though is pushing it, and other brands of lifts do not perform. then i did bumpers, winch etc. you know what funny, i have about the same money invested in that as a brand new power wagon! its the wifes jeep though and she loves it.

when you compare power wagon prices to a comparable equipped Ram 2500 hemi, the $6000 difference in a price makes it a no brainer. im not interested in the cummins, ive had the 7.3L ford 4x4 econoline that was nothing but a headache--really turned me off to diesel, and the systems are getting way to complex

The only issue i have with the power wagon for a camper rig is load capacity. whats weird is i see conflicting numbers on RAM's own site for a 15, 1440lbs in one spot, 1880lbs in another. so i need to figure out what it really is.

for sure a RAM 2500 i could just put the camper in and be done, but...., i lust after the capability of the power wagon. I love the sway bar disconnect of the rubicon, and lockers for if you get in trouble. and a winch i neccesity for where i go. Hell, i pulled 4 trees out last weekend with the rubicon winch-ha. Air bags dont scare me, i have firestones and daystar cradles on my tundra, and i feel day star cradles are mandatory on any airbag install. then of course there is the much more $ Carli bags (almost 3 times the price).

I'm still very much trying to decide the right course of action for a vehicle that works for my desires as much out of the box as possible. living in CO, i have a lot of trails to explore, and BLM land to set up camp in. not sold 10-13 vs 14-15 yet either, but ordering exactly what i want has its appeal
 

regularcab2500

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The only thing i have to add is with the new power wagons theres nothing to worry about as far as gearing. The motor has enough low end power to compensate. I myself want 4.56s but in my brief experience, even the 3.73 gearing was adequate with the 6.4 hemi. Mds shouldnt scare you either you can always turn if off with a tuner and its helpful with mpg when youre on interstates that are 65mph.
 
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coguzzi

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speaking of MPG, what do you realistically see? one advantage of the 2500 vs PW would be milage (or even a diesel), lets face it, spend a lot of time on the slab to get to the good spots to wheel/camp. that is one thing thats tough with the 02 tundra, 9-13 mpg with the camper (11 average i would say). its made for a newer generation, ie, bigger truck, so has a larger profile/wind catcher. would fit better on a RAM for sure. with out the camper it gets 20ish, current unloaded trip to Dallas though going 80 it was 13-16mpg.

others have told me PW doesnt care if it has a camper in it or not, milage stays close to the same, but no real numbers. Dealer was selling me that a current customer was seeing 18mpg with the 6.4, i think he's blowing smoke
 

regularcab2500

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My fuelly account says ive averaged just over 10mpg in the past 6000 miles (i have 15700 total). 18mpg sounds like blowing smoke for sure. Going through the trails on saturday i used seemingly very little gas while in 4low most of the time. Most of the 20 miles i drove through the trails was uphill or through muck so i wasnt being light on the throttle either. I used about 15 gallons on that trip over 230 miles, mostly freeway. I dont think a power wagon would be much different. Despite taller gearing and the stiffest coil suspension known to man i was still extremely impressed with how my truck handled the terrain. However with high centered weight in the bed i would have rolled the truck at least twice.
 
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coguzzi

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it appears the real numbers are: Power wagon is 1880lb pay load vs 2550lb for a normal 2500 (with a 5.7 i am assuming-not the optional 6.4 i would go for). that is 670 lb difference, and when you figure in the extras a power wagon has, factory winch, sway bar disconnect, skid plates front to rear, thats probably 400lbs, maybe. I know, and most probably would be adding a winch and that would involve a bumper, some under body protection etc to a 2500 for safety purposes.

SO, after that, payloads are actually only off by a couple hundred pounds really. still wavering though between power wagon and 2500 laramie

towing is another, 10,000lb vs 17,000lb, but i hate towing-ha
 

loveracing1988

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it appears the real numbers are: Power wagon is 1880lb pay load vs 2550lb for a normal 2500 (with a 5.7 i am assuming-not the optional 6.4 i would go for). that is 670 lb difference, and when you figure in the extras a power wagon has, factory winch, sway bar disconnect, skid plates front to rear, thats probably 400lbs, maybe. I know, and most probably would be adding a winch and that would involve a bumper, some under body protection etc to a 2500 for safety purposes.

SO, after that, payloads are actually only off by a couple hundred pounds really. still wavering though between power wagon and 2500 laramie

towing is another, 10,000lb vs 17,000lb, but i hate towing-ha

If you haven't made a decision find a dealer with a power wagon and take your truck and camper there and see if they will let you sit the camper on it to see how much sag you get out of the rear end. Worst case scenario you could always put normal 2500 springs in the rear but that will eliminate a lot of flex in the rear axle.
 
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coguzzi

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i actually pulled the trigger on a 15 2500 laramie, had it about a week now. really wanted to make the PW work, but the dealer had a PW laramie in stock, door sticker gave cargo capacity at 1329 lbs. my camper weighs 1245 dry. before house battieries. the 2500 laramie (very comparably equiped) door sticker stated 3049lb cargo. it was kind of a no brainer.

Camper is installed, truck dropped 1.5" with no mods. guess ill be building a truck to get close to what i wanted, probably cost more in the long run, but at least ill be legal and within GVWR. i can put what ever motor bike i want on the hitch rack and still be under
 

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Nojoy

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Looks good. The 2500 should have progressive springs on it vs the linear springs the Power Wagon has. I bet the drop would have been more on the PW too. Maybe 2"+ with that camper.
What type of engiine did you choose wirh your new 2500?
 

loveracing1988

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Looks good. The 2500 should have progressive springs on it vs the linear springs the Power Wagon has. I bet the drop would have been more on the PW too. Maybe 2"+ with that camper.
What type of engiine did you choose wirh your new 2500?

Over 3k of payload on a 2500 means the 6.4.
 
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coguzzi

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6.4 is correct. it adds another 1000lbs to the GVWR for a total of 10K. obviously with the camper, and what the rig is used for, i was after capacity. im sure it will wheel better than my IFS Tundra did, and not be worried about tweaking the frame all the time. would a power wagon wheel better--hell yeah, but....
 

loveracing1988

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6.4 is correct. it adds another 1000lbs to the GVWR for a total of 10K. obviously with the camper, and what the rig is used for, i was after capacity. im sure it will wheel better than my IFS Tundra did, and not be worried about tweaking the frame all the time. would a power wagon wheel better--hell yeah, but....

If your wheeling includes articulation don't count on it. The springs are so stiff there is not much Flex with these trucks. Although you are right about the frame.
 
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coguzzi

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i would bet it flexes better than any IFS, just the very nature of a solid axle, plus i have a constant 1300+lb load in the bed, i wouldnt expect an empty bed to flex at all, but with some weight..... will it flex like my Rubicon, no, will it get me to a great place to sleep far away from people--i think so.

i just couldnt justify being over weight on a the PW by the time my dog got in the truck, in the US we dont care about such stuff, but crossing the northern border they do, and my wife is canadian, so crossing is inevitable
 

BobWohlers

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I have a 2018 Power Wagon with a Hawk Four Wheel Camper on the bed.
 

Low_Sky

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I’m sure you’re just trying to be helpful, but you’re digging up an almost four year old dead thread. For what it’s worth, I’ve read your article. Your airbag setup is suboptimal for the Power Wagon and I wouldn’t go around recommending it to people.


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BobWohlers

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I’m sure you’re just trying to be helpful, but you’re digging up an almost four year old dead thread. For what it’s worth, I’ve read your article. Your airbag setup is suboptimal for the Power Wagon and I wouldn’t go around recommending it to people.


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BobWohlers

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Hummm... Okay on the "dead thread." Give me your definition of "suboptimal" and your reasons "why." I'd be genuinely interested in your comments. I've discussed and actually shown my set up to one of FCA's Power Wagon designers. He liked what he saw. Nothings perfect and there are always tradeoffs - as in this case some rear axle articulation. So, why would you "not recommend it to people" - specifically.
 
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