RAM 2500 Cummins Payload Vs. Towing

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Exdeus

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Hey Folks. Have a 2017 RAM 2500 Cummins Laramie. It has the 68RFE transmission with a max payload of 2,160 pounds and a 17,460 pound towing capacity (class 5 receiver) per my door sticker and VIN. I will have an AEV front bumper and winch on it shortly which will reduce it a few hundred pounds.

I typically carry a Four Wheel Camper in the bed but will be selling that and likely getting a smaller RV or travel trailer. In looking at the fifth wheels, it seems that they all will pretty well put me at or over payload. I am mostly seeing 1,700 pound hitch weights or more for fifth wheels, even the ones that claim they are "1/2 ton compatible" have a 1,200 pound dry hitch weight. Am I accurate in how I am looking at this? Surprised me a little bit seeing as it is the diesel with the towing package. My truck has a gooseneck hitch but would need to add a fifth wheel hitch if I went that route. Just a little surprised at hitch weight on this.

Now I could obviously get nearly any travel trailer to tow as my max hitch weight would be 1,200 pounds with the class 5 and I can tow up to the 17k (no desire to), but would never get close. Guessing the 5th wheels are really more meant for the 3500 - 5500 trucks? Was hoping to get a 5th wheel due to the easier/cleaner towing and handling, but all good if not. Just want to validate my logic here.

Thanks!
 

mtofell

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You've got it right. 2500 diesels are an oddball - they can PULL a house but can't CARRY much. If you really want your head to explode look into the axle weights vs. payload debate. Your RAWR allows you to carry much more weight than what puts you over on your payload. I'll leave it there and let you do your own research.
 

TMyers

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You've got it right. 2500 diesels are an oddball - they can PULL a house but can't CARRY much. If you really want your head to explode look into the axle weights vs. payload debate. Your RAWR allows you to carry much more weight than what puts you over on your payload. I'll leave it there and let you do your own research.
My 2500 CTD has a Gross of 10,000 lbs. But, my two axle weights combined equal 11,500 lbs. max. I use the axle weights because that's how I weigh it at the scales. I tow a 5th Wheel with my 2500. I'm a little over on my cargo sometimes but way under on my max rear axle weight. I load the camper, not the truck. I also use a Reese Goosebox as a hitch so I save some weight there.

The tow police go crazy over the Payload vs. Axle weights.
 

jejb

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Yep, lots of threads here about this subject. Search on "police" and I bet a few will come up. ;)

There is some law that restricts 3/4tons to a max on paper rating of 10K pounds. So even though they are capable of more, you could be in trouble if you are over that and get into an accident.
 

ramffml

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The GM 3/4 tons have a rating greater than 10K.

Maybe someone can answer the question "how does payload get determined"? Is it only a percentage of your axles? Because for example, the power wagon has the same axle ratings but far less payload due to the suspension, so clearly suspension plays a role too.

A rating is a rating, if you need to get out your calculator and worry about whether you're going over payload but not rear axle then perhaps you have the wrong truck for the job.
 
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Exdeus

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My 2500 CTD has a Gross of 10,000 lbs. But, my two axle weights combined equal 11,500 lbs. max. I use the axle weights because that's how I weigh it at the scales. I tow a 5th Wheel with my 2500. I'm a little over on my cargo sometimes but way under on my max rear axle weight. I load the camper, not the truck. I also use a Reese Goosebox as a hitch so I save some weight there.

The tow police go crazy over the Payload vs. Axle weights.

How do you determine axle weights and ratings? Is the axle used standard across all 2500's for year/make/model?
 
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Exdeus

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The GM 3/4 tons have a rating greater than 10K.

Maybe someone can answer the question "how does payload get determined"? Is it only a percentage of your axles? Because for example, the power wagon has the same axle ratings but far less payload due to the suspension, so clearly suspension plays a role too.

A rating is a rating, if you need to get out your calculator and worry about whether you're going over payload but not rear axle then perhaps you have the wrong truck for the job.

Thanks, but don't think that last statement is necessarily helpful or adding to the discussion. As I stated, I own the truck and we are making a change and I am looking to verify if I am in fact interpreting the information correctly as it was surprising given the towing capacity of the truck. It has a massive tow rating, but very low payload, which is a bit odd/interesting.

With that said, you are correct in the PW variations. I actually did not get the PW due to the payload being so low. I actually see people running those with Four Wheel Campers all the time which I guarantee is over payload as it is close enough with my truck, but you are correct, suspension absolutely has something to do with it as well. Brake size, engine, suspension, axles, etc.
 

ramffml

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Your right of course, I should have written that better and I didn't intend to be snarky. I was also addressing the other comments WRT "tow police" etc. My point is basically that payload is payload, and we shouldn't be worried about what that number means compared to axle ratings, and how much you can afford to go over payload as long as you're withing RAWR etc; IMHO once you reach that point in the discussion it becomes kind of clear to me that the wrong truck is being used.
 

mtofell

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And we're off!!! I'll see you all on page 34 when we're S T I L L arguing payload v. axle weights :) :)

I bet the owners on this site love this :)
 

jejb

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The GM 3/4 tons have a rating greater than 10K.
Interesting. They must have changed them from Class 2 to Class 3. You'd think Ram would do that also.
 
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dhay13

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And we're off!!! I'll see you all on page 34 when we're S T I L L arguing payload v. axle weights :) :)

I bet the owners on this site love this :)
yep. I have found specific laws regarding GVWR while towing (payload, not GCWR) but have been laughed at by a few on here saying it doesn't matter so I gave up on arguing it.
 

lAWROSA

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Like a tractor trailer which I used to drive, it goes by axle weights. Take the axle weights off your door jam. Thats your carrying capacity. Also lest not forget. Your tires carry the load. Make sure you have the proper load range tires.

I had an s10 chevy I towed with. It had load range c tires on it. It had a 795lb load capacity if going by axle weights. 595 door sticker. Lets just say I used every bit of that 795lbs.

The good thing with a travel trailer is the WD hitch you can throw the weight back to the front axle within reason.

I had all my trucks dialed in precise with simple cat scale passes.


**** Take your truck to cat scale. Get individual axle weights and subtract from your door sticker.



img_4295-1-jpg.476454
 

TMyers

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Whether you go by Payload or Axle weights, go to a Cat Scale or similar. Get your truck and trailer axles weighed individually. These are your real numbers. You need these numbers for safety and weight distribution.

You may be way under on payload but not enough tongue weight. This will create a much more dangerous situation than being over on payload. Lots of videos online showing a trailer swaying out of control.

Say someone has a 2500 truck that weighs 6500 pounds. They may calculate that to mean they can haul 3500lbs. and be safe and legal. We've all been at Lowe's or Home Depot and seen this. 75% of a truck's stopping power is in the front brakes. Overloaded rear tires and no brakes!

If you use your truck, know your truck and its limitations. Get real axle weight numbers. And lastly, NEVER EVER GO BY WHAT A SALESMAN SAYS ON TOWING!
 
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Exdeus

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Interesting. They must have changed them from Class 2 to Class 3. You'd think Ram would do that also.

Are you referencing hitches? My RAM 2500 actually has a factory class 5 hitch.
 
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Exdeus

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Like a tractor trailer which I used to drive, it goes by axle weights. Take the axle weights off your door jam. Thats your carrying capacity. Also lest not forget. Your tires carry the load. Make sure you have the proper load range tires.

I had an s10 chevy I towed with. It had load range c tires on it. It had a 795lb load capacity if going by axle weights. 595 door sticker. Lets just say I used every bit of that 795lbs.

The good thing with a travel trailer is the WD hitch you can throw the weight back to the front axle within reason.

I had all my trucks dialed in precise with simple cat scale passes.


**** Take your truck to cat scale. Get individual axle weights and subtract from your door sticker.



img_4295-1-jpg.jpg

Great call out. I am running load range D tires. They should have a rough capacity of 3527 pounds per tire. My rig below!

115995717_10102836310258585_4985211780410291355_n.jpg
 

Irishthreeper

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They make 5W’s that will work for your truck, just shop carefully on hitch weights. As a little guidance, my 5W has a listed hitch weight of 1250 but loaded and hooked up I had about 1900 lbs sitting on the hitch. My 2500 is a gasser but you can probably still find a 5W that will work with the Cummins. BTW, we’re full timers so had a lot more stuff packed than you would likely need.
 

TMyers

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There's a loophole in the 2b class somewhere. The 2021 GM 2500HD has a GVWR of 10,650 and Ford is showing the 2022 SuperDuty F250 at 10,800 while Ram's 2500 remains at 10,000. It's all about claiming "Best In Class".
 
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