Ram Riding and Handling absolutely terrible!

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MrSoloDolo

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The winch is where any extra weight he has would be. (only like 50lbs)

Those offroad bumpers only average 10lbs more than stock chrome bumpers... Most are for looks like bull bars and actually crumple in an accident easier than the stock bumpers.. I considered them for my truck but if you look online you will see quite a few rusty dented up ones for sale or trade used.
A "rake" in a truck is when the rear is slightly higher than the front already, its normal and comes stock so when the truck is loaded up you dont have a "Bro Lean" which is when the front sits higher than the rear. its popular to level trucks that owners dont often use the bed or for cosmetic reasons to stuff oversized tires for trucks that dont go offroad much but for practical and gas mileage purposes a little rake is beneficial. When I "leveled" mine I left a little rake because I do still use it as a truck.
I know what rake is, in my case the rear sat way too low without the spacer. Not sure what kind of bumper he has but the winch bumper im looking at weighs 300+ lbs and would make a considerable difference in handling without making the necessary changes. I ran a front spacer for years though and my Ram handled great. I know alignment issues could also lead to very poor handling
 

augiedoggy

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I don't know why this thread is still going this was solved pages ago.

The diesel powertrain is 250 pounds heavier than the hemi and 470 pounds heavier than the 3.6 . That weight is mostly borne by the front axle. One size fits all springs fit like one size fits all underpants. The solution is front struts and springs that are built for, or adjustable for the actual weight of the engine. That's all. Nothing more and nothing less.


Diesel GVWR - 6950
Diesel 4x4 quad cab 6' box payload - 1400
Diesel base weight 5550

Hemi GVWR - 6900
Hemi 4x4 quad cab 6' box payload - 1600
Hemi base weight 5300

3.6 GVWR 6800
3.6 4x4 quad cab 6' box payload 1720
3.6 base weight 5080
Exept that weight is not all in the front end right?. You have the def tank full of def fluid with a pump and hardware mounted under the bed in the rear as well as all the additional crap and filters on the exhaust... I have 5100s on my diesel and it handles fantastically with stock springs. I never had the stock setup on my truck for comparision but this truck rides better than any ive owned or driven for work. I truley feel I got lucky in this regard as it handled bumps terribley with the lowering kit the PO installed before I purchased it.
When I look up the Mopar part numbers on the stickers still attached to those stock springs (I took them from lowering struts) I get parts that cross refference different ram engine and trim packages. Yes the rams were sold with different springs depending on the weight of the interior and engine combined but in any case, If aftermarket struts were his issue the truck would not be riding too hard and stiff as the OP has stated his problem is. One would think that would cause the opposite issue. I dont know of any lift company that sells different off the shelf kits with different weight springs for different trim packages like oem regardless of the very realistic truth that it would in fact change ride quality, but so would just preloading any spring for that matter.

When it comes to most adjustable ride height struts the higher you raise the ride height the stiffer the ride quality and I'm suspecting its something of this nature happening here. That said mine are adjusted to the 2.1" setpoint but due to the aftermarket lower spring perch its still giving me give me about 3" of front end lift over stock and the ride is NOT stiff... perhaps its the extra weight?
 

augiedoggy

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I know what rake is, in my case the rear sat way too low without the spacer. Not sure what kind of bumper he has but the winch bumper im looking at weighs 300+ lbs and would make a considerable difference in handling without making the necessary changes. I ran a front spacer for years though and my Ram handled great. I know alignment issues could also lead to very poo

The shop had to add rear spacers to elminiate the rake when the Superlift 6” was put on. Has anybody else run in to this problem? Other than that Im very happy with how it turned out and it drives great
Ok maybe im mistaken here but please explain to me how ADDING rear spacers could possibly LOWER your rear on these trucks and eliminate the rake as you stated here? Not trying to give you a hard time but what you have been describing with your truck in your other posts is the "bro Lean" with the front sitting higher than the rear and thats why I made the statement for clarification. Again the "Rake" term just isnt used to describe this reverse situation probably to avoid this confusion. Screenshot 2021-11-25 111541.jpg
 
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augiedoggy

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I know what rake is, in my case the rear sat way too low without the spacer. Not sure what kind of bumper he has but the winch bumper im looking at weighs 300+ lbs and would make a considerable difference in handling without making the necessary changes. I ran a front spacer for years though and my Ram handled great. I know alignment issues could also lead to very poor handling
I realize not all these bumpers are created equal but if these bumpers and winches and the additional 50 or even 100lbs alone were a real problem you would see folks all over that would need lifts or stronger struts to compensate yet this is the first ive heard of it on 4 different ram forums. Think about it. many dont think twice to bolt a 25-70lb bull / brush bar and some lights to the front of thier truck... you dont hear of them replacing suspension afterwards. I have seen where it causes the front to drop an inch or so but never seen complaints of stiffer ride quality as a result.

Look at the weight of just this brush bar alone... 69lbs... close to the OPs bumper and winch weight likely over the stock bumper. https://www.amazon.com/Aries-5058-B...ll+Guard+Dodge+Ram+1500&qid=1637849561&sr=8-4

And I do have a brush bar and lights mounted to my crew cab ecodiesel with the 5100s for reference. (old pic as ive added flares and an led light bar) the rear is lifted 2" as well with superlift variable springs which ride fantastic both loaded and unloaded.Inked20211015_080727_2mp.jpg
 
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kurek

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Exept that weight is not all in the front end right?. You have the def tank full of def fluid with a pump and hardware mounted under the bed in the rear as well as all the additional crap and filters on the exhaust... I have 5100s on my diesel and it handles fantastically with stock springs. I never had the stock setup on my truck for comparision but this truck rides better than any ive owned or driven for work. I truley feel I got lucky in this regard as it handled bumps terribley with the lowering kit the PO installed before I purchased it.
When I look up the Mopar part numbers on the stickers still attached to those stock springs (I took them from lowering struts) I get parts that cross refference different ram engine and trim packages. Yes the rams were sold with different springs depending on the weight of the interior and engine combined but in any case, If aftermarket struts were his issue the truck would not be riding too hard and stiff as the OP has stated his problem is. One would think that would cause the opposite issue. I dont know of any lift company that sells different off the shelf kits with different weight springs for different trim packages like oem regardless of the very realistic truth that it would in fact change ride quality, but so would just preloading any spring for that matter.

When it comes to most adjustable ride height struts the higher you raise the ride height the stiffer the ride quality and I'm suspecting its something of this nature happening here. That said mine are adjusted to the 2.1" setpoint but due to the aftermarket lower spring perch its still giving me give me about 3" of front end lift over stock and the ride is NOT stiff... perhaps its the extra weight?
Go back to the beginning of this thread and look at the pictures he posted of the front suspension. This is truly not that difficult to figure out.
 

augiedoggy

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Go back to the beginning of this thread and look at the pictures he posted of the front suspension. This is truly not that difficult to figure out.
Sorry I dont see it... again more weight in the front would make the struts ride softer not harder. All I can determine from the pics it he had big hard 10 ply tires which hes swapped and already stated helped with ride quality. and theres some sort of lift kit mounted on the front end. Ive never had any experience with that lift kit so therefore I do not know if such type of lift kits always make the trucks ride horribly.
 

augiedoggy

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I see cv angles that look close to the 3.5" limit and show the vehicle was very likely once lifted much higher. My guess is it had larger wheels and someone dropped it to sell it but did it incorrectly.

Is that what we believe is making the suspension ride so bad? I am not a lift kit expert here. Looking at these pics for the first time though I would say that lift kit should be removed or the vehicle lifted a bit to improve those angles (which will hurt towing mileage )
Just someone who also bought an ecodiesel truck that a PO had modified the suspenion making it ride bad. I chimed in to help with what in fact worked on my truck and to point out that I didnt buy the extra possible 100lbs in the front vs stock would not make the front ride stiffer.

Kurek, I still dont see how your repeated suggestion to mount factory struts and springs would be the solution here? Please explain as I'd really like to know? Im not trying to be a smart@$$ here.
 
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GovernorBudNH

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Following along Augiedoggy and Kurek here to better understand the problem/solution. The move toward OEM 4 ply tires and airing to 38lbs was in the right direction ride-wise at least on the I-93... however will have to go back to C or D tires when I resume towing my TT.
 

kurek

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? I am not a lift kit expert here.
I agree with this comment.

Here is, yet again, the obvious problem and therefore obvious solution to OP's suspension situation.

It is not necessary to be an expert to see when a part that should be pointy-straighty is instead pointy-uppy. It takes only a sliver of curiosity to consider what other parts might be affected by that arrangement.Leftffront.jpg
 
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GovernorBudNH

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That NOW explains at last Kurek, that slamming into the bumpstop is the best description for the ride issue...and as you aptly said, "It takes only a sliver of curiosity to consider what other parts might be affected by that arrangement."

Thank you. How about a photo from anyone on WHAT A PROPERLY ALTERED suspension lift should look like? Sharing this with GR Suspension, the shop in Quebec who did the work for the previous owner. Maybe this is the way things are done in Canada?
 

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kurek

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That NOW explains at last Kurek, that slamming into the bumpstop is the best description for the ride issue...and as you aptly said, "It takes only a sliver of curiosity to consider what other parts might be affected by that arrangement."

Thank you. How about a photo from anyone on WHAT A PROPERLY ALTERED suspension lift should look like? Sharing this with GR Suspension, the shop in Quebec who did the work for the previous owner. Maybe this is the way things are done in Canada?

I did mention this more than a month ago in this thread and you even responded in agreement.

Here is a photo that shows the correct relationship between the inner and outer suspension/axle components.

RM_15Susp_CAR3.jpg

It's a different brand of lift but the geometry is approximately the same, particularly the parts relevant to your situation. Notice that the CV axles are just about level, maybe angling very slightly down from the center axle assembly to the wheel hub.

This relationship shows (*) that there is approximately the full, OEM range of upward motion available to the front wheel - it can be pushed up 4 or 5 inches before hitting the bumpstop - which means that will basically never happen on any road situation and only happen off-road when the driver's asking for it.

The solution is coil springs rated specifically for a diesel 1500 or adjustable strut/spring assemblies with a setting explicitly approved for a diesel 1500.

Note that since the vehicle is currently sagging quite a bit in front, correcting the problem will produce the full lift height that the lift kit was designed to produce - in front. That might require a little adjustment in back too.




*(indirectly shows - but since AEV built and installed this we can safely assume)
 
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augiedoggy

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GovernorBudNH

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Finally got appointment today to bring the truck---so it can be assessed in person--- to experienced off-road suspension shop, BDR Auto here in Mass. Owner Brian (who owns a Ram) drove truck and agreed that there were issues with ride and geometry wrong, as Kurek correctly indicated. Then put it up on jack. Conclussion was, the original lift was 6"' It was partially redone and now shows a 2" lift. (large tires and wheels taken off among other things to sell vehicle) AND that the front shocks are wrong...too short. He showed me via the jack where the truck height SHOULD BE. And just adding his weight almost hits bumpstops. His suggestion was to first try Dodge and order factory shocks. Correct height front shocks make sense as this is yet another issue, but could be a starting point due to my budget at this time.

I realize we might be going round and round here, and that Nick from gotexhauset did quote kits to address the issues based on Kurek's suggestions.

"6112's and Fox adventure series rear shocks or
Eibach front coils and struts with Fox adventure series rear shocks
Probably the best option, Fox 2.0 coil overs and Fox adventure series rear shocks. All of them are Diesel specific for the front."

I'm just thinking based on the too short shock, does it make sense to spend the money to replace the front shocks and see where we are at or is this a waste?
 

kurek

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With very few exceptions all the front shocks (struts) are the same length as each other regardless of lift and whether they're stock or aftermarket.

(Again with very few exceptions) all lifts for this platform either relocate the top of the strut with a spacer, change the distance between the bottom spring seat and the bottom pivot, change the coil spring or a combination of those things. What they don't materially change is the length of the strut/shock.

I know you want to get this done right with the least money spent possible while still being done right. We all generally want that.

You might want to contact KYB and ask them about part number SR4550 - https://www.kyb.com/contact/customer-support/

That part is a strut, coil spring and mount combo that looks to be ecodiesel-specific. Looks like they retail for around $160/ea USD and if KYB confirms that the coil spring is ecodiesel specific that makes them probably the simplest click-and-done solution you're going to find because it's all one piece, labor will be minimal it's six nuts per side. (support frame, remove lower control arm inner nuts/bolts, remove strut lower bolt, remove strut upper nuts... strut falls out, yeet into dumpster, reassembly is reverse of disassembly, perform alignment, enjoy the drive) KYB is great quality, too.

The only possible gotcha on the KYB quick strut is if you still want to fool around with the height more than just what you'll restore from having the right springs, well they're not adjustable. If you want adjustable then you've gotta go with the pricier solutions Nick offered they're all good choices depending on your budget.
 
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augiedoggy

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You still need to remove that lift kit hardware or lift it back up, otherwise the control arms geometry will still be less than ideal. new struts will only net you an inch or 2 of extra space between the bump stops vs what you have now.
 
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GovernorBudNH

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Understood at last after all this research and education from the forum. ( I am contacting KYB as an interim solution as Kurek suggested)

However: To correct control arm qeometry and do correctly:

1) Remove improperly installed lift kit.
2) Replace the lift kit with a 3-4" lift and start from scratch to do correctly.
or if I do not want to lift truck
3) Leveling kit (2")/conventional suspension to bring truck back to stock

Looking at some $2500 installed for example for a rough country kit.
No point in replacing struts and parts piecemeal without addressing the issue of the improperly installed setup and geometry as I finally understand.

That really is bottom line--after all this education--- to do this correctly since I plan to keep the truck.

Suggestions for kits that work for the ecodiesel if I now go this route?
Thanks much guys, Just have to allocate funds to do this.
 

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