@Ramcares

[RammerHarder]

Not only do I fully agree, I also respect the real world points you made. Just to confirm, had the dealers taken a pro active, get to the bottom of this and get it fixed,,,,FCA would not be buying the truck back. But the sad fact is, that is not their motivation. Frankly, I do not think much is going to change in the present manufacture, dealer business model.

It`ll surely change Fitz, but it`ll be to late, and they`ll be out of business before they can fix the problems.
Look at chrysler for instance, won`t be to long from now, they`ll join plymouth... gone for forever.
This is exactly what big corp`s do, they pulled the trucks out from dodge, called them RAM`s.
Now RAM brand is being pulled into the pit deeper, due to its own company not caring.

They pay the FAT CEO`s WAY TO MUCH MONEY... stripping the brand of extra funds that could go back into the business to REALLY fix their problems.
FAT-ASS CEO`s dont care, and theres the problem. Get rid of non-productive people, they are dragging the brand into its own death.
And that goes all the way down into the dealerships... dump the non-performing personal. Cant pass the TECH training, you gone!

 

[joeygster]

Let me just add one more thing.... some of these dealerships have screwed so many GOOD tech`s, that they chose a new profession... like i did.
I got tired of having to fix all the "come-backs" from lousy so-called tech`s while they made double the flat rate money over what i was making.
By the time the customer ripped off the managers heads, they had to give the car to me because they knew it would get fixed right.
Where was MY incentive to CARE anymore. Instead of screwing the customers, i walked away from turning wrenchs.

I see it all the time in southern Ontario where a guy running a decent honest garage operation has a car dealer service tech job somewhere in his LinkedIn background.

 

[RammerHarder]

I see it all the time in southern Ontario where a guy running a decent honest garage operation has a car dealer service tech job somewhere in his LinkedIn background.

We`ve all seen it... there is no doubt about it.

 

[John-e-racer]

It`ll surely change Fitz, but it`ll be to late, and they`ll be out of business before they can fix the problems.
Look at chrysler for instance, won`t be to long from now, they`ll join plymouth... gone for forever.
This is exactly what big corp`s do, they pulled the trucks out from dodge, called them RAM`s.
Now RAM brand is being pulled into the pit deeper, due to its own company not caring.

They pay the FAT CEO`s WAY TO MUCH MONEY... stripping the brand of extra funds that could go back into the business to REALLY fix their problems.
FAT-ASS CEO`s dont care, and theres the problem. Get rid of non-productive people, they are dragging the brand into its own death.
And that goes all the way down into the dealerships... dump the non-performing personal. Cant pass the TECH training, you gone!

Can’t say I agree. The decline in quality is because of us, the consumer. We want cheap cheap and we get cheap cheap. The biggest most successful store is Wal-Mart. That tells you everything. If the CEO was paid nothing and his salary was distributed to employees That would amount to $10-20. I do agree the dealer techs are useless. You really have to search hard to find a competent tech which is why I do my own maintenance and have for a long time. But that’s not only ram, so is Toyota and Honda and all of hem. I had the Honda master tech give me a stupidest respond when I drove my car for a misfire warranty. He said the engine was 180 degree out of timing. He said that with a straight face as the engine was idling.

 

[chrisbh17]

Can’t say I agree. The decline in quality is because of us, the consumer. We want cheap cheap and we get cheap cheap. The biggest most successful store is Wal-Mart. That tells you everything. If the CEO was paid nothing and his salary was distributed to employees That would amount to $10-20. I do agree the dealer techs are useless. You really have to search hard to find a competent tech which is why I do my own maintenance and have for a long time. But that’s not only ram, so is Toyota and Honda and all of hem. I had the Honda master tech give me a stupidest respond when I drove my car for a misfire warranty. He said the engine was 180 degree out of timing. He said that with a straight face as the engine was idling.

Cheap cheap gets us materials, etc that are cheap.

Cheap cheap shouldn't give us "master techs" that only know how to press buttons. Yes, good techs warrant more $/hr than newbie techs, but dealers arent employing hundreds of thousands of them, like manufacturers are pumping out hundreds of thousands of vehicles.

Save a buck on 1 million trucks and you save 1 million bucks.

Save a buck an hour per tech and you'll save what? $28K (10 techs, 8 hours/day, 350 days a year)

What gets me is that I can complain about an issue until Im blue in the face, but it will be "normal". What happens when the warranty is up and then it turns out to be an actual issue? Does the tech all of a sudden now know what it is and how to fix it? On my dime, of course....

 

[John-e-racer]

Cheap cheap gets us materials, etc that are cheap.

Cheap cheap shouldn't give us "master techs" that only know how to press buttons. Yes, good techs warrant more $/hr than newbie techs, but dealers arent employing hundreds of thousands of them, like manufacturers are pumping out hundreds of thousands of vehicles.

Save a buck on 1 million trucks and you save 1 million bucks.

Save a buck an hour per tech and you'll save what? $28K (10 techs, 8 hours/day, 350 days a year)

What gets me is that I can complain about an issue until Im blue in the face, but it will be "normal". What happens when the warranty is up and then it turns out to be an actual issue? Does the tech all of a sudden now know what it is and how to fix it? On my dime, of course....

Sure. The race to the bottom has begun a while ago with American consumers. Dealers have to compete with “bobs mufflers” and other mom and pop places that are everywhere. How many of us keep using the dealers after the warranty is up? We all go find a “cheaper local place” and undoubtedly dealers have higher operating costs. So, they reduce costs any way they can including wages. Then we all complain about the quality. It is vicious cycle chasing the dollar down the drain. I think as the cars get more and more high tech, we will be forced to use the dealers and quality will improve. Mom and pop places will not be able to afford the tooling and everything will need some kind of proprietary software or cable to be diagnosed. Gone are the days where the diagnostics were inside someone head and a set of wrenches and screwdrivers were all you need to work on anything.

 

[chrisbh17]

Haha I wish the mom and pop/"bobs muffler" places were that much cheaper than dealers!

And, what makes a dealer charge 125 (or more) per hour for labor? I realize everyone has overhead, but you would think backed by a corporation, a sales department, etc would allow for *less* per hour labor than a mom and pop with a few employees and a bay or two to work on vehicles. And if not less per hour labor, at least competitive.

On top of it all, Ive *tried* to pay my dealer to work on my car. The results I got were no better than having AutoZone scan the computer for me. And this was an Infiniti dealer working on my Infiniti G37...not a beater Sentra or Corolla or something. They had no problem charging me the full diagnostic fee while admitting they didnt fix (or even replicate) the issues I brought it in for. They did manage to come up with a list of stuff that should be resolved, at a cost of $2K if I wanted to pay them.

If dealers want 125/hour of labor, fine....give me better service than bobs muffler or a mom and pop shop. I dont mind paying for it...the problem is that they give us cheaper service at the same inflated price. At least some of the tendency to go to a non-dealer shop is surely because of dealer horror stories, being burned in the past by using a dealer, etc. Its not up to the consumer to change those tendencies, its up to the DEALERS.