Ready to sell this truck. lol. Alignment issue after Zone UCA install?

[Elwood]

Ok. New saga in my truck life. I put Rough Country Vertex coil overs on. Went to a new alignment shop after. Making this my 5th shop now? Forget. They aligned it. Shop says the adjustments are maxed out. Best he could do. This is left pic of align. Fast fwd. I put Zone UCA on and took RC coil overs off and replaced with Eibach kit (struts and coils) front and rear. I take it to another shop. Only shop who could get me in before vacation trip. His alignment sheet is on the right. He says he worked on it for awhile. Its the best he could do. He ALSO says cam bolts are maxed. Second shop to say this. He blames Zone UCA because he sees no other reason why it wont get a better alignment. I asked him why people online on searches say their "alignment is good" I got the eye roll and asked to see their alignment sheets for which I had none to show. Are people using a camber/caster kit to achieve more caster and if so, which kit?

I included my alignment sheets from after RC coil overs (left side of pic) to after Eibach lift and Zone UCA (right side of pic comparison). I also included pics of the Zone to show their on right (I installed them). I also included cam bolts to show their maxed out. And lastly, I included a pic of a level against the tire. Why? Unknown. lol. I guess to see if the tire was level from alignment.

Hi, in February 2021 I had the Eibach 3-1/2" front 1" rear lift/level installed and the Zone UCAs same as you have, I believe. I also installed 275/75/20 tires, basically a 34" by 11" tire. The 4X4 shop that did the install also did the alignment. No issues. Got about 35,000 plus miles on it since.

 

[Hylander]

I must be lucky.
I installed the Zone UCA's and did not align, drove perfect.
Then a couple weeks later had my local guy install new struts and the Zone 2.5" adventure series lift.
That was a couple thousand miles ago.
Still have not had it aligned and it drives perfectly.
However, I will be getting aligned soon.

 

[Ram7081]

(deleted)

 

[Ram7081]

I must be lucky.
I installed the Zone UCA's and did not align, drove perfect.
Then a couple weeks later had my local guy install new struts and the Zone 2.5" adventure series lift.
That was a couple thousand miles ago.
Still have not had it aligned and it drives perfectly.
However, I will be getting aligned soon.

Post your alignment sheets after please. I bet the caster is in the 4* mark. You wont notice the driving being bad per say, but its off i'd bet. So, its not perfect per say. Its just not bad enough to get an alignment at the moment. Anyways, I am real curious of your alignment. Did you see the other alignment sheets posted above? None of Zone's are put back to OEM specs. Their all in the 4s.

 

[Ddenton369]

Ok. New saga in my truck life. I put Rough Country Vertex coil overs on. Went to a new alignment shop after. Making this my 5th shop now? Forget. They aligned it. Shop says the adjustments are maxed out. Best he could do. This is left pic of align. Fast fwd. I put Zone UCA on and took RC coil overs off and replaced with Eibach kit (struts and coils) front and rear. I take it to another shop. Only shop who could get me in before vacation trip. His alignment sheet is on the right. He says he worked on it for awhile. Its the best he could do. He ALSO says cam bolts are maxed. Second shop to say this. He blames Zone UCA because he sees no other reason why it wont get a better alignment. I asked him why people online on searches say their "alignment is good" I got the eye roll and asked to see their alignment sheets for which I had none to show. Are people using a camber/caster kit to achieve more caster and if so, which kit?

I included my alignment sheets from after RC coil overs (left side of pic) to after Eibach lift and Zone UCA (right side of pic comparison). I also included pics of the Zone to show their on right (I installed them). I also included cam bolts to show their maxed out. And lastly, I included a pic of a level against the tire. Why? Unknown. lol. I guess to see if the tire was level from alignment.

I feel your pain. In fact I just mentioned the very same problem in my latest post. After 5 years with a 2017, one which the only real mods were Rough Country leveling kit and slightly oversized tires, I think I had 5 alignments. Was told same thing; best we can do, MAXED OUT? Some were better for a short while then reverted back to mis-aligned and higher tire wear. My recent post question was two- fold; regarding factory 4x4 Off Road pkg "added ride height", affect on a lift/leveling kit, AND is there one that is the REAL DEAL ?

 

[Rlaf75]

I dont know where you are or which alignment shops you're bringing it to but if you are taking it to a franchise tire shop like Firestone, town fair tire or other places like that you usually get some kid that's been an "alignment specialist" for like a day and a half and very inexperienced. Try to find a an offroad shop that does the alignments to see what they can do or if they can suggest someone good to take it to. Again I'm not familiar with lift kits but could it be possible that the cams were installed incorrectly? Some vehicle have removable cams that can be placed on the bolt backwards.

 

[Ram7081]

I dont know where you are or which alignment shops you're bringing it to but if you are taking it to a franchise tire shop like Firestone, town fair tire or other places like that you usually get some kid that's been an "alignment specialist" for like a day and a half and very inexperienced. Try to find a an offroad shop that does the alignments to see what they can do or if they can suggest someone good to take it to. Again I'm not familiar with lift kits but could it be possible that the cams were installed incorrectly? Some vehicle have removable cams that can be placed on the bolt backwards.

Chain, ma and pa shop and dealer. All 3.

 

[Ram7081]

So here is what my research came up with. Thanks to those who posted their alignment sheets and those who pm'd them to me. It looks like OEM specs are 3.5* +/- for caster. Aftermarket uca then become in the 4* mark. The 2-3* mark tends to push performance while the 4-5* tends to push ride quality. Meaning better. So, is it safe to assume the aftermarket pushes better ride quality since they assume you are lifted and not into performance? Maybe. The research I did was for Zone and JBA. This research I did I made sure to see an alignment sheet not just "its good" type of thing as its subjective to the drivers needs.

If you have aftermarket uca and have an alignment sheet to post and it shows 3-3.5* on caster, post it. Love to see it. But after a few days of research, I never found one and this is the conclusion I came to for which I am done researching.

 

[BolletuH]

Ok. New saga in my truck life. I put Rough Country Vertex coil overs on. Went to a new alignment shop after. Making this my 5th shop now? Forget. They aligned it. Shop says the adjustments are maxed out. Best he could do. This is left pic of align. Fast fwd. I put Zone UCA on and took RC coil overs off and replaced with Eibach kit (struts and coils) front and rear. I take it to another shop. Only shop who could get me in before vacation trip. His alignment sheet is on the right. He says he worked on it for awhile. Its the best he could do. He ALSO says cam bolts are maxed. Second shop to say this. He blames Zone UCA because he sees no other reason why it wont get a better alignment. I asked him why people online on searches say their "alignment is good" I got the eye roll and asked to see their alignment sheets for which I had none to show. Are people using a camber/caster kit to achieve more caster and if so, which kit?

I included my alignment sheets from after RC coil overs (left side of pic) to after Eibach lift and Zone UCA (right side of pic comparison). I also included pics of the Zone to show their on right (I installed them). I also included cam bolts to show their maxed out. And lastly, I included a pic of a level against the tire. Why? Unknown. lol. I guess to see if the tire was level from alignment.

Your toe after the Eibach lift is not good and can be contributing to a pull to the right. You need more toe-in for high speed stability and less wandering. Toe should be identical on both left and right tires to ensure pulls are not introduced to steering system. Caster looks great. You should have a small caster split in favor of the passenger side to help create a pseudo pulling effect since most roads are crowned. Camber isn't perfect, but well within tolerance levels. YOU SHOULD NOT EXPERIENCE ABNORMAL TIRE WEAR FROM THOSE MEASUREMENTS. Your toe is most likely going to cause irregular wear.

Go to a shop that will set the toe to 0.05 on each side exactly bringing total toe to 0.10. Caster is perfect and cannot be adjusted unless adjustable balljoints or UCA shims are installed. This should not be necessary. Camber looks to be untouched as the factory paint marks are basically lined up. I'm assuming your are running into incompetent technicians. Leave camber alone at this point as it won't be worth pursuing. I think on my RAM 2500 SFA I have about 0.02-0.03 of positive camber on my front wheels and it drives straight and fine with no abnormal tire wear.

I think you are pursuing something that is going to drive you mad and most likely not worth the time and financial investment.

Edit: If you really want to experiment a bit with this yourself. Loosen all of your lower control arm bolts and move them to a neutral position. The alignment hole should be pointing straight down to the ground. Get an alignment check done and post up your new specs. You will then have a better idea on what adjustments need to be made. This forum and its members should be able to help you figure out which direction to spin the cam bolts to adjust the camber to your liking. Also, while not laser perfect that level you have could be used to get camber almost dead on. You are going to have to take this problem into your own hands at this point if you want it right. The big takeaway is that your adjustment bolts should not be far out of phase of one another. If they are you might have another problem on your hands.

 

[Ram7081]

Your toe after the Eibach lift is not good and can be contributing to a pull to the right. You need more toe-in for high speed stability and less wandering. Toe should be identical on both left and right tires to ensure pulls are not introduced to steering system. Caster looks great. You should have a small caster split in favor of the passenger side to help create a pseudo pulling effect since most roads are crowned. Camber isn't perfect, but well within tolerance levels. YOU SHOULD NOT EXPERIENCE ABNORMAL TIRE WEAR FROM THOSE MEASUREMENTS. Your toe is most likely going to cause irregular wear.

Go to a shop that will set the toe to 0.05 on each side exactly bringing total toe to 0.10. Caster is perfect and cannot be adjusted unless adjustable balljoints or UCA shims are installed. This should not be necessary. Camber looks to be untouched as the factory paint marks are basically lined up. I'm assuming your are running into incompetent technicians. Leave camber alone at this point as it won't be worth pursuing. I think on my RAM 2500 SFA I have about 0.02-0.03 of positive camber on my front wheels and it drives straight and fine with no abnormal tire wear.

I think you are pursuing something that is going to drive you mad and most likely not worth the time and financial investment.

Edit: If you really want to experiment a bit with this yourself. Loosen all of your lower control arm bolts and move them to a neutral position. The alignment hole should be pointing straight down to the ground. Get an alignment check done and post up your new specs. You will then have a better idea on what adjustments need to be made. This forum and its members should be able to help you figure out which direction to spin the cam bolts to adjust the camber to your liking. Also, while not laser perfect that level you have could be used to get camber almost dead on. You are going to have to take this problem into your own hands at this point if you want it right. The big takeaway is that your adjustment bolts should not be far out of phase of one another. If they are you might have another problem on your hands.

I agree. I think your right about "pursuing something that will drive me mad" lol. Appreciate the feedback. I just might do that "adjust camber bolts" then take it in for alignment.

 

[Ram7081]

Your toe after the Eibach lift is not good and can be contributing to a pull to the right. You need more toe-in for high speed stability and less wandering. Toe should be identical on both left and right tires to ensure pulls are not introduced to steering system. Caster looks great. You should have a small caster split in favor of the passenger side to help create a pseudo pulling effect since most roads are crowned. Camber isn't perfect, but well within tolerance levels. YOU SHOULD NOT EXPERIENCE ABNORMAL TIRE WEAR FROM THOSE MEASUREMENTS. Your toe is most likely going to cause irregular wear.

Go to a shop that will set the toe to 0.05 on each side exactly bringing total toe to 0.10. Caster is perfect and cannot be adjusted unless adjustable balljoints or UCA shims are installed. This should not be necessary. Camber looks to be untouched as the factory paint marks are basically lined up. I'm assuming your are running into incompetent technicians. Leave camber alone at this point as it won't be worth pursuing. I think on my RAM 2500 SFA I have about 0.02-0.03 of positive camber on my front wheels and it drives straight and fine with no abnormal tire wear.

I think you are pursuing something that is going to drive you mad and most likely not worth the time and financial investment.

Edit: If you really want to experiment a bit with this yourself. Loosen all of your lower control arm bolts and move them to a neutral position. The alignment hole should be pointing straight down to the ground. Get an alignment check done and post up your new specs. You will then have a better idea on what adjustments need to be made. This forum and its members should be able to help you figure out which direction to spin the cam bolts to adjust the camber to your liking. Also, while not laser perfect that level you have could be used to get camber almost dead on. You are going to have to take this problem into your own hands at this point if you want it right. The big takeaway is that your adjustment bolts should not be far out of phase of one another. If they are you might have another problem on your hands.

Here is what's odd. Here is the first alignment sheet he printed. This was the night before I picked it up. He asked to keep it over night to work on caster next morning. If you notice, the the toe seems fine to me. Why did he mess with it? lol

 

[BolletuH]

Here is what's odd. Here is the first alignment sheet he printed. This was the night before I picked it up. He asked to keep it over night to work on caster next morning. If you notice, the the toe seems fine to me. Why did he mess with it? lol

I genuinely can't tell you. It was most likely a side-effect from fiddling with other alignment specs that potentially threw it out. Shifting the lower control arm does mildly change positioning of the steering knuckle. This could have affected the tie rod angle which will affect your toe reading. This is assuming he messed with camber though and not caster. Caster is usually not adjustable unless he installed shims in the UCA mounting bracketry. Regardless your caster is good given your first alignment sheet, but your toe needs corrected the most. 0.04-0.05 on each side is perfect and 0.08-0.10 total toe is right about what you want for good tire wear and stability.

If you do end up messing with camber yourself toe will be the last thing you alter as camber positioning will change the toe reading just slightly. Still at the end of the day if your caster and toe are spot on with camber being slightly off you shouldn't see abnormal tire wear or have undesirable driving characteristics. Of course each vehicle is different, but try not to concentrate on the actual spec too much. Just watch for irregular tire wear or less than optimal driving characteristics.

 

[Ram7081]

Ok, I saw this video and went outside to measure. I came up with 74.5" on front and 74" on rear. So its .5" off?

How to do an alignment on a car at home using only a tape-measure!!! (And Alignment Basics)

Basic how to for aligning the toe of a car. Not the steps to complete a full alignment but is helpful for the most adjusted part on the front endInstagram: h...

www.youtube.com

 

[BolletuH]

Ok, I saw this video and went outside to measure. I came up with 74.5" on front and 74" on rear. So its .5" off?

How to do an alignment on a car at home using only a tape-measure!!! (And Alignment Basics)

Basic how to for aligning the toe of a car. Not the steps to complete a full alignment but is helpful for the most adjusted part on the front endInstagram: h...

www.youtube.com

Measuring toe with a tape measure is pretty difficult. I tried doing that on my truck and was toed so far out my truck was wandering everywhere on the road. Get your camber dialed in and toe will be last. You can use a camber/caster gauge as such for getting a fairly precise measurement. Make sure you are on a level surface though with no roll or pitch to it.

Amazon.com

Once you have your camber set the way you like (very slightly negative), then head to the shop for a confirmation on the measurement and have them fix toe to be 0.10 total and 0.05 each side. Each side should be the exact same to prevent pulls and irregular tire wear.

 

[Ram7081]

(deleted)

 

[BolletuH]

So this shop (previous one with RC coilovers) did an ok job based on what your saying and if I am understanding?

Honestly, yes. Besides your LF camber needing tweaked a little bit everything looks phenomenal in that readout. Toe is almost perfect along with caster having a slight bias to the passenger side. Did your truck steer pretty well and have no pulls?

 

[Ram7081]

(deleted)

 

[BolletuH]

That alignment seem fine. Yes.

I would say head back to that shop and ask if you can get the following specs or at least as close as possible:

Camber
LF: -0.1
RF: -0.1

Caster: 4.0 +- 0.5
You should have about 0.2 higher on the passenger side to correct road crown pull.
Caster difference should be no more than 0.4-0.5 degrees and is usually not adjustable anyways. It will change slightly when fiddling with other measurements but almost a negligible amount.

Toe:
LF: 0.05
RF: 0.05
Total: 0.10

With this setup your truck should drive straight down the road with minimal effort on your part and excellent wear assuming proper tire rotations. Certain tires can cause left or right pulls which may need to be accounted for but as long as you don't have anything with overly aggressive tread you should be fine.

For camber I still recommend either a gauge or a handy and trusty level to zero it out. Loosening your LCA bolts and twisting the cams is super ******* simple and takes about five minutes. I've adjusted the caster on my RAM 2500 probably over a dozen times perfecting the steering on my truck. You simple loosen the bolt, twist it where you want, and tighten it back down. Note that both the front and rear LCA mounting bolts should be loose when making the adjustment. This is also an assumption, but I believe twisting the bolt inwards towards the engine would decrease (negative) camber while twisting it away from the engine should increase (positive) camber. You can verify with your level if that is the case, but I could be wrong. On the RAM HD platform you use to twist the LCA arm towards the front to add caster, but now with the new radius arm platform you twist it towards the rear to add caster. Looking at your initial picture you may be close to maxing out your camber degree. However, you might be able to squeeze another .1 or .2 out of it.

 

[Ram7081]

(deleted)

 

[Ram7081]

(deleted)