Rear end shudder.

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lucky8926

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My 2014 2500 has had a weird “shudder” after taking off from a stop and going low speed when shifting between 1st/2nd and from 2nd into 3rd. Seems to primarily happen when turning left. When I leave my sons daycare they have a large half circle drive and I really notice when driving on it during shifts around 20 mph. I originally thought it was a transmission issue, but had the dealership look at it to see if they could figure it out, along with an odd low pitch intermittent squeak coming from the back. They could not get the shudder to replicate but said I had a bad hub seal on the rear driver’s side and they thought the squeak was due to diff fluid being all over the brakes. It was going to be around $1,000 for them do replace the seal, rear brakes and both brake rotors. I told them to fill the rear diff to the correct level and I would get back with them. When I paid the bill for the inspection and Diff fluid the tech said he put almost a full bottle in the diff, so it was fairly low. I replaced the brakes, rotors and hub seal myself and made sure the diff was still full, which it was. So….. could the low diff fluid level cause some wear issues with the gears which is now causing the shudder? I’ve never noticed it at high speeds or just driving while in one gear, it’s always when shifting. Yesterday it started something new. I was on the highway slowing down from about 60 to make a stop and turn down another road. As I was slowing down it made a clunking noise. It did it again when I was leaving work while slowing down. I didn’t know of the lack of torque then sudden force on the gears in between shifts is causing an issue?

Also, the reason I first thought it was the transmission (which I actually haven’t fully ruled out) is because in February I had to have a shift solenoid replaced, and with the not so great reputation of Dodge transmissions I’ve been super aware of every odd noise or thing it’s done fearing that the trans is going out…. This includes really harsh downshifts that I don’t think were there before.
 

jws123

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How many miles on it? also Is your truck the short bed 2500 or long bed if its the long bed check the center support bearing on driveshaft sounds like what your describing the shudder. Also with all my rams never had issue with trans 210k on mine rn fords are 100x worse with transmissions. Rams only fail normally when abused and not taken care of even still I beat the hell outa mine never skips a beat.
 
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Rado

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I am no help but following, Please UPDATE what you find out
 
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lucky8926

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It’s only got 46,*** miles and never pulled or hauled anything over 1000 lbs. All maintenance up to date and performed by the Dealership. It’s got the 6’ bed, so a 1 piece driveshaft and no support with a carrier bearing.
 

Jeepwalker

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You don't happen to have a limited slip rear diff in that truck do you?
 

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My 2014 2500 has had a weird “shudder” after taking off from a stop and going low speed when shifting between 1st/2nd and from 2nd into 3rd. Seems to primarily happen when turning left. When I leave my sons daycare they have a large half circle drive and I really notice when driving on it during shifts around 20 mph. I originally thought it was a transmission issue, but had the dealership look at it to see if they could figure it out, along with an odd low pitch intermittent squeak coming from the back. They could not get the shudder to replicate but said I had a bad hub seal on the rear driver’s side and they thought the squeak was due to diff fluid being all over the brakes. It was going to be around $1,000 for them do replace the seal, rear brakes and both brake rotors. I told them to fill the rear diff to the correct level and I would get back with them. When I paid the bill for the inspection and Diff fluid the tech said he put almost a full bottle in the diff, so it was fairly low. I replaced the brakes, rotors and hub seal myself and made sure the diff was still full, which it was. So….. could the low diff fluid level cause some wear issues with the gears which is now causing the shudder? I’ve never noticed it at high speeds or just driving while in one gear, it’s always when shifting. Yesterday it started something new. I was on the highway slowing down from about 60 to make a stop and turn down another road. As I was slowing down it made a clunking noise. It did it again when I was leaving work while slowing down. I didn’t know of the lack of torque then sudden force on the gears in between shifts is causing an issue?

Also, the reason I first thought it was the transmission (which I actually haven’t fully ruled out) is because in February I had to have a shift solenoid replaced, and with the not so great reputation of Dodge transmissions I’ve been super aware of every odd noise or thing it’s done fearing that the trans is going out…. This includes really harsh downshifts that I don’t think were there before.
Im gonna put my money on rear control arms. The front track bars wear out fast in the 2500’s the rear track bar may be worn out and it finally started wearing the control arm bushings to where you are noticing an issue. Most people can’t feel when the rear wags in the bigger trucks until they start getting bad
 
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lucky8926

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Im gonna put my money on rear control arms. The front track bars wear out fast in the 2500’s the rear track bar may be worn out and it finally started wearing the control arm bushings to where you are noticing an issue. Most people can’t feel when the rear wags in the bigger trucks until they start getting bad
How can I see if they’re worn out? Why would this cause it to shudder when it’s shifting?
 

Jeepwalker

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If it's a 'limited slip' with clutch plates, it's possible it requires a friction modifier. Vehicles with such a diff will act as you have described during turning and once in a while on the straights when the plates need to release tension. I've experienced it on non Ram vehicles. You add a small bottle of the right friction modifier and it's like giving a sick person the right medicine. It get's better quick.

Unfortunately my knowledge about specific Ram limited slips, is, well ...limited. Maybe someone else here knows more about them and the lube the take. Can you list the exact option number (option code) next to that line-item of the build sheet (for rear diff clarity).
 

crash68

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How can I see if they’re worn out? Why would this cause it to shudder when it’s shifting?
Does it do it while driving in a strait line?
 
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lucky8926

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If it's a 'limited slip' with clutch plates, it's possible it requires a friction modifier. Vehicles with such a diff will act as you have described during turning and once in a while on the straights when the plates need to release tension. I've experienced it on non Ram vehicles. You add a small bottle of the right friction modifier and it's like giving a sick person the right medicine. It get's better quick.

Unfortunately my knowledge about specific Ram limited slips, is, well ...limited. Maybe someone else here knows more about them and the lube the take. Can you list the exact option number (option code) next to that line-item of the build sheet (for rear diff clarity).
I did some checking and it appears the 2500’s like mine have a “helical gear torsen type” rear end.
 

Mnvanden

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My 2014 2500 did something very similar, took it to a shop for a leaking seal, they put in Lucas 80W-90 natural oil, non synthetic, no other additives or friction modifiers and the shuttering went away. Since then, have only used that Lucas oil and no issues since. Maybe something easy to try out and see if it fixes it.
 

Elvira

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Yes on the limited slip diff's, GM had a similar problem once and the cure was an additive and the mechanic mildly drove a few figure 8's to get the lube coated on clutches. Sounds like a similar scenario, short of checking physically and being sure the fluid is up. in the diff. The limited slip differentials do in fact have clutches that allow slippage around corners, letting the 2 wheels spin independently at different speeds. This will cause a shudder at low speeds on turns which is the clutch pack slipping, but not at a smooth rate. Your Ram could have this problem, but there are different types of limited slip differentials. I believe Dana uses the clutch packs.
 
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lucky8926

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My 2014 2500 did something very similar, took it to a shop for a leaking seal, they put in Lucas 80W-90 natural oil, non synthetic, no other additives or friction modifiers and the shuttering went away. Since then, have only used that Lucas oil and no issues since. Maybe something easy to try out and see if it fixes it.
I saw a lot of recommendations to change it and replace with Amsoil Severe Gear 75-90, so I went with that. I didn't notice any difference and still got the shudder or chatter under the same conditions. Next I added the Amsoil slip lock which is a friction modifier. Some said it helped, others said it didn't and per the manual no modifier is needed since the 2500's aren't a typical LSD that uses clutches. It actually seems that after adding the modifier it got worse and now sometimes I notice it when taking off from a stop sign and going straight. Before it was primarily noticed when turning left after a stop. I may have to give the Lucas a try. I've seen recommendations to use a 75-140 oil, but due to cold temps here in central Illinois I don't feel comfortable with doing that. I worry it would be way too thick at low temps and provide no protection until the rear diff warmed up....
 
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lucky8926

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Yes on the limited slip diff's, GM had a similar problem once and the cure was an additive and the mechanic mildly drove a few figure 8's to get the lube coated on clutches. Sounds like a similar scenario, short of checking physically and being sure the fluid is up. in the diff.
The Ram 2500 rear diffs use an odd type of LSD that doesn't have clutches like a typical one so a friction modifier isn't needed. Some say it helped them that had similar issues i'm having so I added Amsoil slip lock. It didn't help, and actually made it a little worse. This was added after I did a regular change of the diff fluid and used amsoil 75-90, which didn't help the issue so I added the modifier. I'm probably going to have to change it again, but need to find out what oil to use as it seems everyone has different results with different brands and weights. I emailed American Axle Manufacturing since they make the rear ends for the heavy duty Rams. I haven't heard anything back from them and it's been a couple months now....
 

Mnvanden

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The guy at the gear shop stressed using non synthetic oil, so thats why he said they only use the Lucas one. Kinda sucks to keep changing oil in the diff, unless you like the smell of gear oil
I saw a lot of recommendations to change it and replace with Amsoil Severe Gear 75-90, so I went with that. I didn't notice any difference and still got the shudder or chatter under the same conditions. Next I added the Amsoil slip lock which is a friction modifier. Some said it helped, others said it didn't and per the manual no modifier is needed since the 2500's aren't a typical LSD that uses clutches. It actually seems that after adding the modifier it got worse and now sometimes I notice it when taking off from a stop sign and going straight. Before it was primarily noticed when turning left after a stop. I may have to give the Lucas a try. I've seen recommendations to use a 75-140 oil, but due to cold temps here in central Illinois I don't feel comfortable with doing that. I worry it would be way too thick at low temps and provide no protection until the rear diff warmed up....
 
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