Ridiculous price quotes at dealerships

[nlambert182]

I have an 11 year old Acura TL with 180k miles on it. The buttons still look brand new.

 

[mikeru]

Don't even get me going on the Audi.....

Interior flooded twice. Found out the geniuses put the battery under the wiper cowl, where the drain holes would clog if you parked under a tree and fill the floorboard with water.

Had an oil leak. Dipstick tube plastic was so brittle that it snapped off. Replaced it with an OEM and 6 months later, did it again.

Always idled rough... only fix was to completely delete the vacuum system (minus brake booster). All of the vacuum fittings were that same cheap plastic and would get brittle and crack.

Had a coolant leak. The coolant bypass valve behind the engine was... you guessed it... made of that cheap brittle plastic and had a hairline crack in it. Learned how to be a sailor that day.

Sunroof opened going over a bump into a car wash. The contactors had gotten weak in the switch and made contact when I hit the bump. Had to replace the entire assembly and change my clothes.

Radio buttons all wore off. Thought it was just a GM thing, but apparently the "soft touch" button labels were really just cheap crayon.

I probably replaced every sensor under the hood at least twice with OEM ones.
I replaced every window regulator but the driverside twice. I only replaced that one once.

ALL of this was prior to 90k miles.....

If it was made of plastic, it broke. Beautiful car. Flaming pile o junk otherwise.

At least you had radio buttons. They'll all be touch screen controls in future models. Everything on the giant panoramic touch screen that stretches from the left side of the dash to past the mid point of the dash into the passenger side. To be fair there are more buttons on the steering wheel now LOL. But that's not all, the passenger will get their own touch screen to do whatever it is they can from over there. If you look close you'll see that the seats and part of the dash are covered in fabric, not leather. Fabric seats in a luxury vehicle? And what's with the flat bottom and top steering wheel?

It seems that a lot of people like this new interior. I'm not one of them LOL. I'm on my third Audi and have loved every one of them. I do my own routine maintenance on all of them except my current one. Audi-care came with the lease so I take it in for that since it's on their dime. But I won't be getting another one once my lease is up in 2026 if this is all I have to look forward to...

 

[turkeybird56]

At least you had radio buttons. They'll all be touch screen controls in future models. Everything on the giant panoramic touch screen that stretches from the left side of the dash to past the mid point of the dash into the passenger side. To be fair there are more buttons on the steering wheel now LOL. But that's not all, the passenger will get their own touch screen to do whatever it is they can from over there. If you look close you'll see that the seats and part of the dash are covered in fabric, not leather. Fabric seats in a luxury vehicle? And what's with the flat bottom and top steering wheel?

It seems that a lot of people like this new interior. I'm not one of them LOL. I'm on my third Audi and have loved every one of them. I do my own routine maintenance on all of them except my current one. Audi-care came with the lease so I take it in for that since it's on their dime. But I won't be getting another one once my lease is up in 2026 if this is all I have to look forward to...

While stationed in Europe all soldiers etc crept for the few that shipped their vehicles over or bought Saab 900s we all had hand me downs. Soldier PCS another soldier buy. You could use pages of paper just on a Registrstion list. Everything I had was European except for a Ford Granada (US specs) I got with a 302 motor wat a pos. Had Audi, BMW, VW, Opel, dat Ford. Last vehicle I had was a 74 Mercedes Sel 4 door with straight 6 (2) carbs. Just PS, radio, heater, power winders and electronic controlled rear stabilizer. Would adjust rear height based on speed. That Mercedes fly down the autobahn run 180-200 kph all day long. MX all done by me and a friend. Thought I was bad till got smoked by a 7 series BMW and a carrera 959 Porsche. They came from factory 360 kph capable. Fun time on the autobahn as long as U could afford gas. We all saved our gas coupons for trips lol.

 

[Grams]

I've never seen a domestic brand service department charge that much anywhere.... The average in the US is around $130 for a dealership. Independent shops can still fall below the $100/hr rate.

Heck, diesel dealerships don't charge that rate! They're in the $180-$190/hr range.

Book time is book time though... if the tech does a 4 hr job in 45 minutes the dealership makes money. If the tech takes 4 hrs to do a 1 hr book job, guess what? The dealer eats it.

The manufacturer sets the book time, not a Chilton's manual.

This is incorrect. On the flat-rate system such as you describe, the “dealership” is not who makes the money when the mechanic (oops…’scuse me….we call them “technicians” these days…) If the “tech” does a 4 hour job in 45 mins it’s the tech who makes the extra. I did this in the early ‘70s as I paid my way thru college and flight school..
Toyota paid 4 hrs for a head gasket on a Corolla (early ‘70s models had an issue)…. and the first time I did one it took the full 4 hrs.

The more experienced guy in the next bay took pity on me and showed me how to get it done in less than an hour by using a combination of short-cuts that made no difference in the quality of the job. (things such as don’t remove the carburetor then remove the manifold like the manual instructs…. simply remove the manifold leaving the carb installed on it…. saves several assembly tasks, two gaskets, and a carb-adjustment task. Don’t pull the rocker-arms assy and all the rockers before pulling the head…. Leave them in-place and pull the pushrods After the head is pulled off. Reverse the procedure and do a simple valve-adjustment at the end fo the job. Clamp the upper radiator-hose and leave the radiator IN the vehicle….drain the engine by pulling the lower hose …saving at least a half hour.,,etc etc.)

I could do a half dozen of those jobs before lunch and get paid a full two days pay! The shop/dealership got zero more money for those jobs.

 

[nlambert182]

This is incorrect. On the flat-rate system such as you describe, the “dealership” is not who makes the money when the mechanic (oops…’scuse me….we call them “technicians” these days…) If the “tech” does a 4 hour job in 45 mins it’s the tech who makes the extra. I did this in the early ‘70s as I paid my way thru college and flight school..
Toyota paid 4 hrs for a head gasket on a Corolla (early ‘70s models had an issue)…. and the first time I did one it took the full 4 hrs.

The more experienced guy in the next bay took pity on me and showed me how to get it done in less than an hour by using a combination of short-cuts that made no difference in the quality of the job. (things such as don’t remove the carburetor then remove the manifold like the manual instructs…. simply remove the manifold leaving the carb installed on it…. saves several assembly tasks, two gaskets, and a carb-adjustment task. Don’t pull the rocker-arms assy and all the rockers before pulling the head…. Leave them in-place and pull the pushrods After the head is pulled off. Reverse the procedure and do a simple valve-adjustment at the end fo the job. Clamp the upper radiator-hose and leave the radiator IN the vehicle….drain the engine by pulling the lower hose …saving at least a half hour.,,etc etc.)

I could do a half dozen of those jobs before lunch and get paid a full two days pay! The shop/dealership got zero more money for those jobs.

Our techs were hourly. When we set the price for the job, the tech got paid his normal hourly rate. We could only charge what the book allowed. If the tech did it in less time, we made money. If they didn't, we lost money. It was important that they got the work done within the book time for that reason.

At the end of the year, the techs with the most consistent times in beating the book got bonuses.

This was at a Navistar dealership.

 

[LouM]

The dealers in my rural area are at or above the $200 hr mark.

 

[Grams]

Our techs were hourly. When we set the price for the job, the tech got paid his normal hourly rate. We could only charge what the book allowed. If the tech did it in less time, we made money. If they didn't, we lost money. It was important that they got the work done within the book time for that reason.

At the end of the year, the techs with the most consistent times in beating the book got bonuses.

This was at a Navistar dealership.

That …in my opinion…was dishonest policy. If the Tech had the skills to perform the task espeditiously…it is not the employer’s purview to take the advantage of the Tech’s skillset. The employer already benefitted by being enabled to perform More Work in a timely manner for the customer…which benefits the dealership. YMMV

 

[stevieb92]

That …in my opinion…was dishonest policy. If the Tech had the skills to perform the task espeditiously…it is not the employer’s purview to take the advantage of the Tech’s skillset. The employer already benefitted by being enabled to perform More Work in a timely manner for the customer…which benefits the dealership. YMMV

If the tech didn't like his employer's policy, he was free to leave and go work elsewhere.

 

[Sherman Bird]

I had an Audi A4 for a while. That car stayed on jack stands way more often that on it's tires. There was a time in my life that I enjoyed wrenching on cars so it kept me busy. The wife, on the other hand, hated how much money it took to keep that car on the road versus all our other vehicles and made me sell it.

I've learned that "luxury car" is really a name and a status symbol. Our Armada Platinum has way more luxury features than a lot of SUVs (including it's Infiniti QX80 counterpart), cost a lot less, and maintenance is at least on par with most other non-luxury vehicles (aside from requiring 93 octane gas).

Hence my comment on a fool and their money. We get the same thing for a fraction of the cost AND get reliability.

Our techs were hourly. When we set the price for the job, the tech got paid his normal hourly rate. We could only charge what the book allowed. If the tech did it in less time, we made money. If they didn't, we lost money. It was important that they got the work done within the book time for that reason.

At the end of the year, the techs with the most consistent times in beating the book got bonuses.

This was at a Navistar dealership.

....and all that sounds great, UNLESS, you had worked in dealerships like the ones I did. Prima Donna technicians who were fed by management dictum (nudge nudge, wink wink they wouldn't do THAT!). And everyone acted stupid/ amnesiac when the big suits asked. There was a lot of "under the desk" so to speak cheating/ flat-rating going on in those days.

Fortunately for us few who played by the rules, GM and Ford had their own "Goon Squads" come in and do comprehensive audits. They would charge back the dealership principals and see to the firing of service managers/shop foremen who suborned this theft. The sometimes north of 40-50 grand in chargebacks from the manufacturer only created "Chinese Chairs" rotation of crews among the dealers. THE ONLY time I was aware of a manufacturer actually banning a manager from EVER working for ANY of their franchises was in the case where a Manager set the culture of racial profiling and discrimination in the dealer. It's just too bad that the principals failed to have the hutzpah to enact corrective action, instead a lower level manager blew the whistle at the expense of getting canned.

 

[nlambert182]

That …in my opinion…was dishonest policy. If the Tech had the skills to perform the task espeditiously…it is not the employer’s purview to take the advantage of the Tech’s skillset. The employer already benefitted by being enabled to perform More Work in a timely manner for the customer…which benefits the dealership. YMMV

That was company policy. I didn't set them, but anyone who worked there did agree to them. Not sure how it's taking advantage of the tech if they knowingly accepted the job AND received bonuses based on performance. We (service writers, etc...) didn't get any bonuses. We were hourly just like the techs, but even if we could upsell we didn't see anything from it.

 

[Scottly]

I could do a half dozen of those jobs before lunch and get paid a full two days pay! The shop/dealership got zero more money for those jobs.

To clarify: The shop got no more money on that individual job. What the shop DID GET was increased productivity from the tech, allowing more of those jobs to roll in and out, producing higher revenues for the dealer. That's why book time exists...It's an incentive for increasing productivity. It benefits everyone, including the consumer who didn't have to wait three days for the job to get completed.

 

[Scottly]

I have an 11 year old Acura TL with 180k miles on it. The buttons still look brand new.

And unlike a lot of the crap you can buy, it till runs. The Japanese...They have some things figured out.

 

[Scottly]

If the tech didn't like his employer's policy, he was free to leave and go work elsewhere.

Agree. Every job that I ever worked had performance guidelines and/or production metrics that had to be met...If you didn't meet them, you were terminated. Hell, even those cushy union jobs have those....So you can pay a guy by the clock hour, charge by the book time hour, and still see productivity from your employees.

 

[Scottly]

What dealerships can’t make on the front end, they will try to recoup on the back end.

Front end pays the rent. Back end earns the profit.

 

[Scottly]

The local fish wrapper had an article some years ago that listed the amount of Better Business Bureau complaints regarding auto repair businesses and the biggest and most numerous offenders were the tire and muffler shops.

Because, in many cases, they have the bottom of the barrel for techs...The dealers have the best trained techs (most of the time). I believe that most complaints are not as much related to dishonesty as they are pure incompetence masquerading as dishonesty.