Shocking info ZF Fluids...

[tfeni52355]

good to hear. have a case of D6 in my garage waiting to change the fluid. did you just do one drain and fill or planning to do a second? I am planning on doing the initial drain and fill and maybe 500miles later do another to flush most of the old stuff out.

I have not drained the D6 yet and have put about 600 miles on it. I have time off over the holidays to do it. I am debating (in my head) whether to just go ahead and put a PPE pan on at the same time and be done with it for the foreseeable future. We are planning on pulling a travel trailer next year and I like the of the extra fluid capacity.

I’ll post when I make up my mind.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Burla]

ravenol and lifeguard I believe are same colors as mopar zf8, and I wouldn't be surprised if other zf oems are also the same color and stuff for that matter.

 

[chrisbh17]

ravenol and lifeguard I believe are same colors as mopar zf8, and I wouldn't be surprised if other zf oems are also the same color and stuff for that matter.

I kinda meant the stuff that is (apparently) better than those

 

[Dannyn_01]

I have not drained the D6 yet and have put about 600 miles on it. I have time off over the holidays to do it. I am debating (in my head) whether to just go ahead and put a PPE pan on at the same time and be done with it for the foreseeable future. We are planning on pulling a travel trailer next year and I like the of the extra fluid capacity.

I’ll post when I make up my mind.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Do you have the EcoDiesel? The PPE Pan won’t fit the 5.7 without redoing the YPipe

 

[Burla]

I kinda meant the stuff that is (apparently) better than those

I wonder what the tech sheet looks like on HP green atf, it is spec'd ford sp = zf fluid. Ut is telling me I have to sign in to read sheet. ***** don't do that, maybe if I had a zf trans I'd join up HP. I also wonder why they don't toss in ZF spec in approvals seeing they put ford lv/sp.

 

[Bigskyroadglide]

Any bw44-45 alternative? I believe its the tc with the 4auto.

Im running C+ in mine with no problems in 20k miles. I use the 4 auto and 4 high all winter at what some might consider excessive speed. Shifting on the fly

 

[Bigskyroadglide]

Deleted double post

 

[Gero]

Im running C+ in mine with no problems in 20k miles. I use the 4 auto and 4 high all winter at what some might consider excessive speed. Shifting on the fly

Good to know! I pony'd up for the mopar stuff last year. My next fill in 2-3yrs will be C+.

 

[MRFREEZE57]

Do you have the EcoDiesel? The PPE Pan won’t fit the 5.7 without redoing the YPipe

I believe there is a pic in one of the posts showing the PPE pan will clear the exhaust with the hemi.

 

[andymax]

I use MaxLife in my ZF...works great. There's a guy running an ecodiesel, and running MaxLife, towing over 90%, with much time crossing the rockies, and has been using MaxLife for over 500K of his 740K on the ZF 8speed. While that is pretty much evidence enough for me, there are many others running same with no issues. I see no reason to run anything any more expensive. FWIW - I've got 80K miles on my MaxLife fluid...

 

[Narg]

Bottom line is these numbers may vary, but the actual difference inside the mechanical parts is likely around 0.000001% difference. Numbers don't lie, but the real world results don't lie either. And one person's results are not statistically valid.

 

[Different Drummer]

I have not drained the D6 yet and have put about 600 miles on it. I have time off over the holidays to do it. I am debating (in my head) whether to just go ahead and put a PPE pan on at the same time and be done with it for the foreseeable future. We are planning on pulling a travel trailer next year and I like the of the extra fluid capacity.

I’ll post when I make up my mind.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Are you draining the D6 so soon because of the dilution factor with the residual OEM fill or some other reason?
I am on the fence with the PPE pan. The extra fluid sitting in the sump is doing just that, "sitting there". It will more than likely heat up more slowly but it will in fact get to a final operating temperature and rise and fall in proportion to the work put upon it. Then the question arises , how long will an increase volume of fluid hold a temperature. Or said in another way how long will it take for the fluid to cool to a stable operating temperature after raising it due to work? Seems like a sword that cuts both ways.
I understand the heat dissipation characteristics of aluminum. However, the thermostatic control of the fluid Temp. in the 8 speed more than likely will trump the effect of the aluminum pan construction. If it is a six speed application the equation would be different.
Although it might be nit picking I wish the PPE pan had some internal magnets beyond the magnetic drain plug as well.
I do like the strength of the aluminum pan compared to the OEM. For repeated removal and installation a metal pan would be a plus IMO. If someone is going to do a frequent drain only
routine I would imagine the drain plug assembly is more robust than the plastic as well.
Please keep updating what you do.

 

[Burla]

I use MaxLife in my ZF...works great. There's a guy running an ecodiesel, and running MaxLife, towing over 90%, with much time crossing the rockies, and has been using MaxLife for over 500K of his 740K on the ZF 8speed. While that is pretty much evidence enough for me, there are many others running same with no issues. I see no reason to run anything any more expensive. FWIW - I've got 80K miles on my MaxLife fluid...

The first post in this thread shows that maxlife is a high quality fluid, that is why I posted viscosity index. Those numbers are among the best fluids out there. If there is a however, it certainly hints that there isn't a significant pao base, and in an 8 speed transmission that runs hot, an owner may want to have a base oil that protects better in the extremes. When you look at the natural state of PAO base oils versus tradition mineral oil base oils, it will just offer more protection in the extremes of hot and cold. But Maxlife is a very pleasant surprise for sure, I do believe if I had an 8 speed I would run that over any of the oem selections, why not? I'm not sure I would run it over the real pao based oils, but maybe. Depends on how hard I was working the oil and where the truck lived.

 

[Different Drummer]

Just got off the phone with Blackstone Labs. Talked with a guy named Josh who was very pleasant and patient. In regards to a VOA on Lifeguard 8. They do have one on file. I asked if he could e-mail me a copy. Their policy is to release the printed report to the purchaser of the analysis only. He did give me some individual information from the report though.
SUS = 45.4 ( Cst = 5.84 ) Ca =500. They do not have VI numbers to compare.
He said that overall the sample looked typical of any transmission fluid. He did not have a VOA on Valvoline Maxlife. He did have a VOA on the Mercon. He said it was very similar to the LG8 as was the LG6.

 

[tfeni52355]

Do you have the EcoDiesel? The PPE Pan won’t fit the 5.7 without redoing the YPipe

Thanks for the input. Like so many things there are views from both sides. One says yes it will work without modifying the Y pipe and the other says no.

 

[Dannyn_01]

Thanks for the input. Like so many things there are views from both sides. One says yes it will work without modifying the Y pipe and the other says no.

no problem! I can’t find a straight answer either to be honest. Right after that last comment I sent an email to PPE, to see what their answer is.

 

[Wild one]

Are you draining the D6 so soon because of the dilution factor with the residual OEM fill or some other reason?
I am on the fence with the PPE pan. The extra fluid sitting in the sump is doing just that, "sitting there". It will more than likely heat up more slowly but it will in fact get to a final operating temperature and rise and fall in proportion to the work put upon it. Then the question arises , how long will an increase volume of fluid hold a temperature. Or said in another way how long will it take for the fluid to cool to a stable operating temperature after raising it due to work? Seems like a sword that cuts both ways.
I understand the heat dissipation characteristics of aluminum. However, the thermostatic control of the fluid Temp. in the 8 speed more than likely will trump the effect of the aluminum pan construction. If it is a six speed application the equation would be different.
Although it might be nit picking I wish the PPE pan had some internal magnets beyond the magnetic drain plug as well.
I do like the strength of the aluminum pan compared to the OEM. For repeated removal and installation a metal pan would be a plus IMO. If someone is going to do a frequent drain only
routine I would imagine the drain plug assembly is more robust than the plastic as well.
Please keep updating what you do.

If the magnet issue bothers you,buy yourself some Neodyninium magnets and JB Weld them to the pan.
Not sure how much temp the pan will take out of your 8HP45,but on my 8HP70 i figure it pulled a good 5 degrees out of it's operating temp,and my buddy on his lifted with 35's 4X4 figures it took 10 degrees out of his 8 speeds operating temp.The pan is finned internally and externally,and the fins operate like heat sinks to absorb heat and the airflow under the truck then pulls the heat out of the finned heat sinks.Theres kits out now that defeat the heater on the trucks .FYI the cars use the same exact 8 speed and they don't have the heater assembly,only the trucks do,and it's strictly added to meet the gas milege specs advertised for the trucks.The 8HP70 in my wifes 2019 6.4 Challenger hardly gets over 160F if you're driving it easy

 

[Different Drummer]

If the magnet issue bothers you,buy yourself some Neodyninium magnets and JB Weld them to the pan.
Not sure how much temp the pan will take out of your 8HP45,but on my 8HP70 i figure it pulled a good 5 degrees out of it's operating temp,and my buddy on his lifted with 35's 4X4 figures it took 10 degrees out of his 8 speeds operating temp.The pan is finned internally and externally,and the fins operate like heat sinks to absorb heat and the airflow under the truck then pulls the heat out of the finned heat sinks.Theres kits out now that defeat the heater on the trucks .FYI the cars use the same exact 8 speed and they don't have the heater assembly,only the trucks do,and it's strictly added to meet the gas milege specs advertised for the trucks.The 8HP70 in my wifes 2019 6.4 Challenger hardly gets over 160F if you're driving it easy

I was wondering where you were on this subject. Thanks for jumping in. I am aware of what you point out with the exception of a way to defeat the system that maintains Temp. With the Temp. maintaining system in operation it just seemed to me that as the aluminum dissipated the heat the Temp. maintaining system would simply adjust and keep the fluid up to the Temp. it is designed to maintain. Sort of a Ying and Yang situation. However, if you and others have real world experience where you have seen the Temps drop with the PPE pan then that is more valuable information than what I can theorize.
You were reading my mind on the idea of attaching magnets to the interior of the PPE pan. I do like the idea of the pan but see no need to throw money at it if the benefits are not appreciably measurable. Thus my hesitation.

Food for thought: Just watched a video done in German. It was captioned in English. Two ZF guys talking to service Reps. about " Lifetime Fills" and doing the service on the 8 speed. No lifetime fill support from ZF. ( I know you knew that )
They commented that the transmission may operate at 120* C Thats nearly 250*F !!! Unbelievable!! They also seem to indicate that what is so special about the ZF fluid is it's apparently proprietary additive package. Also did not mention leveling the transmission or make any mention of running the RPM's up to 2, 000 in gear when filling.
Some information that they present would support doing more frequent fluid changes without dropping the pan / filter assembly. The "Baguette" part.
It is kind of entertaining. The two guys are sort of comedians. You probably have seen it but for those who have not I include the link.

 

[Wild one]

I was wondering where you were on this subject. Thanks for jumping in. I am aware of what you point out with the exception of a way to defeat the system that maintains Temp. With the Temp. maintaining system in operation it just seemed to me that as the aluminum dissipated the heat the Temp. maintaining system would simply adjust and keep the fluid up to the Temp. it is designed to maintain. Sort of a Ying and Yang situation. However, if you and others have real world experience where you have seen the Temps drop with the PPE pan then that is more valuable information than what I can theorize.
You were reading my mind on the idea of attaching magnets to the interior of the PPE pan. I do like the idea of the pan but see no need to throw money at it if the benefits are not appreciably measurable. Thus my hesitation.

Food for thought: Just watched a video done in German. It was captioned in English. Two ZF guys talking to service Reps. about " Lifetime Fills" and doing the service on the 8 speed. No lifetime fill support from ZF. ( I know you knew that )
They commented that the transmission may operate at 120* C Thats nearly 250*F !!! Unbelievable!! They also seem to indicate that what is so special about the ZF fluid is it's apparently proprietary additive package. Also did not mention leveling the transmission or make any mention of running the RPM's up to 2, 000 in gear when filling.
Some information that they present would support doing more frequent fluid changes without dropping the pan / filter assembly. The "Baguette" part.
It is kind of entertaining. The two guys are sort of comedians. You probably have seen it but for those who have not I include the link.

What you're not reliazing is they're doing a service on an 8 speed in a car and the transmissions sit virtually level in the majority of car installations,so there's no need to level the pan rail or tranny,as it already is close to level,the trucks on the other hand have the transmission sitting noticably tail down in comparision. Got nothing for them missing the part of taking it up to where it shifts into 2nd gear,as to me,running it through at least 1 gear change is probably a good idea, to circulate the fluid completely through the trannies passages/circuits.These are the instructions that came with the brand new 8 speed i bought,and i'm guessing they are correct,and they are very specific about leveling the pan rail,which if you look at the way the tranny sits in a truck,it makes perfect sense.Go take a look at an 8 speed equipped Challenger or Charger and compare how it sits in the chassis,compared to the way the tranny sits in your truck,you'll see the differance in pan rail levels,lol

 

[Different Drummer]

What you're not reliazing is they're doing a service on an 8 speed in a car and the transmissions sit virtually level in the majority of car installations,so there's no need to level the pan rail or tranny,as it already is close to level,the trucks on the other hand have the transmission sitting noticably tail down in comparision. Got nothing for them missing the part of taking it up to where it shifts into 2nd gear,as to me,running it through at least 1 gear change is probably a good idea, to circulate the fluid completely through the trannies passages/circuits.These are the instructions that came with the brand new 8 speed i bought,and i'm guessing they are correct,and they are very specific about leveling the pan rail,which if you look at the way the tranny sits in a truck,it makes perfect sense.Go take a look at an 8 speed equipped Challenger or Charger and compare how it sits in the chassis,compared to the way the tranny sits in your truck,you'll see the differance in pan rail levels,lol

View attachment 229782

You are correct. I am aware of the difference in orientation between car and truck and just let it slip by. No excuse, just total oversight on my part. Happens I guess, I think they call it a senior moment and it applies in my case.
I already have a copy of the directions you posted. You might recall, it was me who took them with me to a Transmission shop and they told me because of my request for them to adhere closely to the procedure they did not want my business.
Still have to get to the bottom of the fluid question.