Shorty Headers... Worth It Or Not?

[nickpohlaandp]

So the thought came to my mind last night that perhaps I would install some shorty headers no my '14 Ram 5.7, BBK or similar. Does anyone run these? What are your opinions on running them. I'll be N/A for a little while, but Procharger D1SC with 7-9 lbs is in the works. This is a daily driver and I do not want to deal with long tubes. I don't want a loud truck, so much so that I'm almost opposed to doing a cat back. I like the nice quiet ride. Opinions? GO!

 

[Gamester]

I asked this question a while ago and the general consensuses was that shorties were not worth it and longtubes were the way to go in order to have any noticeable power gains.

 

[nickpohlaandp]

Longtubes are great for higher end RPM's, but shorty's help down low. I was just wondering if anyone was running them and to see what their thoughts were. I had a set of Gibson SS Shortys on my '98 Dakota with the 318 and between that and the phenolic intake spacer, it woke that truck up. It was a 5 speed too, so that was a fun truck.

 

[Ramunit]

Shortys are just another piece of the puzzle, combine them with programmer, intake, 180 stat, high flow Y pipe / muffler, etc... and it all starts coming together.

 

[Gamester]

Read through this...

http://www.ramforum.com/f44/increasing_low-end_power_stroker_maybe-87290/index2.html

I was dead set on shorties initially too, but was talked out of them by several folks who had tried them.

 

[nickpohlaandp]

Read through this...

http://www.ramforum.com/f44/increasing_low-end_power_stroker_maybe-87290/index2.html

I was dead set on shorties initially too, but was talked out of them by several folks who had tried them.

Interesting read. I took a look at the links you posted. Two of them were helpful, the one for the Mustangs, not so much. After your links you posted the conversation really seemed to waiver off of shortys and right into "screw shortys, long tubes all the way".

In my experience, your daily driver doesn't live at 4000+ RPM where a long tube is really effective, and if you're not going to be drag racing and chasing every last HP, you might not need that. In your case, I think you're looking for maximum HP, so long tubes will probably do you well.

On the other hand, there's me. I DD my truck and tow a camper. The engine lives between 2500 and 3000 RPM for the majority of the time. I'm not about to spend the bucks that long tubes would cost, nor the custom exhaust that would be required to complete the installation. What I'm looking for is to find out what some real world experience of people running shortys vs. the stock manifolds.

 

[Gamester]

I'm in the same boat as you in looking to gain as much low RPM power as I can and was really surprised that the supercharger didn't do much for my low-end. I keep getting warned off of shorties, but guess you can try them if you want to stay cheaper.

I do kind of find it a little odd though that you are willing to spend thousands on a supercharger that will mainly just increase high RPM power, but don't want to buy full length headers that will actually get you more torque than shorties at any RPM.

Guess you should have titled this post "shortys vs stock manifolds" then

Actually, looks like someone just did that for you...

http://www.ramforum.com/f44/shorties_vs_stock_manis-88280/

 

[nickpohlaandp]

...I do kind of find it a little odd though that you are willing to spend thousands on a supercharger that will mainly just increase high RPM power, but don't want to buy full length headers that will actually get you more torque than shorties at any RPM...

Well when I'm passing or pulling up a hill the supercharger will be working like I want it to because the engine will be under load and at a higher RPM. Long tubes will NOT increase your low end, only mid-range and high end.

If you are really trying to get hp/tq all the way across the board and you're not using it for more than just bursts of fun, you really should consider a twin screw setup over a centri. With a twin screw (TVS) the boost is instantaneous at every RPM. Your problem would be solved. With the new TVS technology, twin screws are better than ever. I am just not opting for one due to my application. I would experience heat soak. If you're just romping here and there, you wouldn't have to worry about that as much.

 

[Paluby]

Shorties are an improvement over the stock manifolds.

 

[6.7CumminsDrvr]

Well I'm sure some of the other more seasoned folks will chime in but for the record, on the 5.7 Hemi, real world results have shown that long tubes make more power than shorties everywhere.............

 

[Gamester]

Well I'm sure some of the other more seasoned folks will chime in but for the record, on the 5.7 Hemi, real world results have shown that long tubes make more power than shorties everywhere.............

Agreed, and as I'm beginning to find out, real world and dyno are two very different places. Believe me nickpohlaandp, I was just as dead set on shorties as you at first and I too had an old 94' 5.2l that they helped on, but I've talked to quite a few folks on here with a lot of experience on these current gen trucks and no one has recommended shorties to make much of a worthwhile improvement on the 5.7L.

 

[nickpohlaandp]

In that case I just assume stay with the stock manifolds. Looking at the longtubes, they're all over $1000k (cheapest I saw was Kooks).

In the other thread someone posted that there are some true bolt on longtube kits. I'd like to see some pictures of that. I'm having difficulty wrapping my head around how you can bolt on longtubes without cutting the existing exhaust somehow.

 

[Gamester]

I haven't done the install of mine yet, but it's my understanding that even with the full bolt on longtube kits that there will be at least one cut and clamp point. I even checked with ARH about their kit, which is one of the nicer ones at $1,700, and it too has one spot that will need cut and clamped.

There are cheaper longtubes out there, like the JBAs at about $600, but I hear they have some fitment issues.

 

[nickpohlaandp]

IF I do any header install it will be these

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/bbk-40090/overview/make/dodge/model/ram-1500

Ceramic coated shortys. I know they won't net gains like a set of longtube, but they are far better than cast manifolds for heat scavenging and primary equality. I'll reserve longtubes for the day that I decide to do a full on engine build with stout internals.

Speaking of internals... lemme start another thread

 

[CLOUDL1GHT]

This is the way I see shorties, they are a good improvement over stock but, like it has been said, will not be near as good as longtubes.

With that being said, shorties are a fantastic option for someone like me who has leaking stock manifolds and want an upgrade without messing with emissions.

Just my $.02. Also last time I checked, shorties were about the same as the stock manifolds cost.

 

[nickpohlaandp]

...Also last time I checked, shorties were about the same as the stock manifolds cost.

Reason enough to go to shortys if you ever have a broken manifold and don't want to pony up for a longtube setup. I can't believe they would charge $400 for a set of cast manifolds. That's crazy. The ones in the link I posted are ceramic coated steel for $400.

 

[CLOUDL1GHT]

Reason enough to go to shortys if you ever have a broken manifold and don't want to pony up for a longtube setup. I can't believe they would charge $400 for a set of cast manifolds. That's crazy. The ones in the link I posted are ceramic coated steel for $400.

you'd be surprised lol. My father was too lazy to fix it himself on his old 2012 truck and it was $250 for the driver's side manifold by itself.

 

[nickpohlaandp]

you'd be surprised lol. My father was too lazy to fix it himself on his old 2012 truck and it was $250 for the driver's side manifold by itself.

Ouch. He couldn't find one in a salvage yard? That's **** right there.

 

[Paluby]

You can get JBA long tubes with the y-pipe everything bolts together for $850 right now from Moe's Performance. A little bit of lead time for them to ship in as they sell so fast.

 

[Hemi450hp]

I wouldnt waste my time with shorties unless your manifolds are cracked and you are out of warranty. BBK especially as they are cheaply made and leak on just about every truck. Their quality has gone down over the past couple years.

JBA's shorties arent bad, but at $500-$600, you would be better off just getting their longtubes instead.

Every longtube setup on the market is bolt on for these trucks. You just install the headers and y-pipe, and then have to make 1 cut on the factory 3" piping where the new Y-pipe ends. The header kits come with a new clamp to connect the 2 together.