Sound Testing / Upgrading your speakers in the Ram (A Sound Tutorial & Test)

[kylo69]

Sound Testing / Upgrading your speakers in the Ram (A Sound Tutorial & Test)

My Background: I know sound (not a “true Sound Engineer”, but I have lots of experience in this area). Went to College for IT (what I do for a living), Partial Scholarship in Music (Playing Sax, still do), DJ and sound systems engineer for lots of years (fun night time job when I was single) for all kinds of events, both as me being the featured act and for other bands/acts (All but radio) and worked at a Car Stereo Installation business for 3 years when I was in High School/College as well.

All this is from my years of experience in and around music and sound. People can agree to disagree, but at the end of the day it’s what “Sounds best to your ears”. Example: Bose, either love them or hate them. Old saying is “No highs, no lows, it must be Bose”. Others love the fullness of the sound and how they port their sound using full range, smaller speakers. Beauty is in the eye…well ear, of the beholder right?

I won’t go into much detail on the actual physical install (except for a few minor things) since you can always go to any vendor’s website for pics and videos on how. This is more from a sound point of view.

Understand that you can only do SO MUCH to the system anyway with the existing wiring and the truck enclosures. At some point your “HiFi” sound will be compromised by the factory wiring.

Let’s start with my system on what I decided to do as an example, but this can be applied to any system really, depending upon what amps, speaker, main head unit (stereo) and money you want to throw at it. I have the “Upgraded” Alpine 8.4A system (I did the aftermarket software upgrade for Nav) as I may swap out the main unit down the road.

What I noticed coming from a Bang and Olufsen system in my previous vehicle, that this one had WAY too much midrange and was muddled sounding and lacked depth. Alpine, shame on you.

Now, on to the Analysis / Installation.

Before we begin
Step 1 – Decisions for $$$. Do you want to completely replace everything? Add functionality to your system? Keep integrations with Climate Control, etc. Add to only, or basic inexpensive upgrades.
Step 2 – Determine what your “Speaker set up is” How many are there, their locations, how they sound and what is lacking
Step 3 –Research your Head unit to determine what it’s capable of (DSP is a big deal, so is the sound of various inputs via USB, Bluetooth, Radio, XM, and etc).
Step 4 – Find out what type of AMP you have, what it’s capability is of “Power…not always wattage here” and what load it can handle for driving the speakers.
Step 5 – Is the existing setup using a crossover already? It will make a difference on what you can do.

Now after getting all your Ducks in a row, we can begin with the upgrade.

This is an example of what I started with and I may decide to add more $$$ at some point in time.

NOTE: If you have the same system and have issues with the “Center channel being too loud all of the time, TAKE OFF SURROUND SOUND”. It will over sound louder anyway do to several factors, but this simple thing will help a bunch.

--------Test Equipment--------
I used my laptop, with analog Spectrum Analysis, an external calibration sound MIC and a good sound program with add ins for visualizations (Jriver MediaCenter, DSP tools and AnSpec plugins for the test audio sound output). There are also 3rd Party tools that do Car Tests (for example: JL Audio makes one) and other vendors that you can even install on your smartphones (I used HolmImpluse on my laptop), a Digital Sound Level Meter that I bought years ago from Radio Shack and more importantly, my ears.

Also, I’m not going into the Technical detail or showing all the test charts, I wanted to do this tutorial the easy way so that anyone could do it with any tools that they choose to use. You can read more info here if you want: Jriver Testing External Speakers

--------Acoustic Factor--------
Ok, for this, before you begin with any upgrade you need baseline for your sound system for all tests.
Always remove ALL EQ changes (Bass, Midrange, Treble), center the sound system (no fading or balance) , TAKE OFF SURROUND SOUND if it has it, and make sure all speakers work (this makes a difference of course). Set a test volume! I used both 20 and 25 as my tests.

After you have everything baselined, next use only high quality music for testing. I used my “test equipment section” to verify the high-quality music). I got the sources only from a HD audio sales site or the original CDs/DVDs. Make sure you use only high quality audio files for testing. It’s funny how many people complain their system sounds horrible only to find out, the only thing they listen to is Pandora or XM. I try to use true DDD CD audio whenever possible instead of AAD or ADD (sometimes its labeled as remastered as well, DDD is Digital recording, Digital mixing, Digital transfer). Let’s not get on a tangent on true audio sound is Analog, as we are testing digital sound here (DSP hello?!?).

All digital files are exported using my test music below using either FLAC or M4A (the newer M4A mac format is better than it used to be btw) files with the highest possible audio that the source audio has (44,100 sample rate, variable bitrates for different songs starting at 694 – 1100 range or higher, etc.) Note, that MP3s give you up to 320 and music from a direct DDD CD can go up to 1411 with the 44.1k sample rate.

Always use the same songs for testing, you can make your own list but here I will use the following with different Genres also:
1. Jazz – Since I fell for you – Bob James / David Sanborn / Al Jarreau
2. Blues – Rivera Paradise – Stevie Ray Vaughan & Double Trouble
3. Classical – Intro to Also Sprach Zarathustra (reprise, original version) – TimeWarp Erich Kunzel & the Cincinnati Pops
4. Vocal Standard – I who have nothing – Tom Jones
5. Rock (Newer Alt Metal) – In The End – Linkin Park
6. Rap – Going back to Cali – LL Cool J
7. Rock Opera – Suite Madame Blue – Styx

Alternatives: Let it Whip - Dazz Band, Brass Monkey – Beastie Boys, Bohemian Rhapsody – Queen, FM – Steely Dan, My Way – Frank Sinatra, Orion – Metallica, Any John Williams Classical Tracks.

Note: I skipped some other Genres since I want to get more full sounds and I also skipped a lot of newer music since I wanted to get away from “over produced, sound corrections”. If a something is out of tune, I want to hear it.

--------True Speaker Sound Quality--------
Don’t fall prey to the more is better (more money means it sounds better, more speakers sound best, or 3-way is better than 2-way).

Understand this: 2-way speakers of good quality will out preform 3 way speakers EVERYTIME. 3-way speakers are a way for car audio manufacturers to save money. All analog audio sound we hear is produced by vibrations, right?!? (insert sarcasm here). Good tweeters cost more money to develop than cheaper cones, so what the engineers and companies decided a while ago is to develop “3-way speakers” to save money. If you look at a TWO way and a THREE way of the same speaker manufacturer. You will notice that their “Mid-range” on the 3 way is usually the same size as their “High range” on their 2 way. Still not convinced? Look at the 3 way speakers up close and then the 2 way. The tweeter on the 2-way speaker looks different than BOTH the “high/mid” on the 3 way. Also, take notice that on the 2-way speaker it says almost the SAME RANGE as the 3 way (except for maybe the lower end, bass). You will want a sub-woofer anyway for the lows.

The best speakers can have a tiny high range quality speaker and a large “full / fuller range” speaker behind them. More sound vibrations come out of the higher quality 2-way speaker since there is more air coming out from behind the tweeter and the three way has more area in the way.

I can go on tangents on speakers by vendors but I’m not, let’s just say I prefer to spend money where it’s needed.

--------OHM Factor (basics)--------

Knowing your AMP or Radio is big here. Also, understanding the basics of OHM’s law, amperage, power etc. How things are wired and all. I’m not going to go into a lengthy discussion here (there is plenty of info on the Internet for this). Higher OHM speakers wired in Parallel creates more strain on an amp and gives you less overall volume and push vs correct speakers wired in series, more push and more volume. That’s why most BASS is wired in series and bridged mono…lots of PUSH/BOOM/VOLUME. However, if an AMP can handle it and to make it sound better, usually normal speakers are wired in Parallel…you get the idea.

Rule of Thumb: what I would do is get lower Ohm speakers on a factory amp so the amp can push harder without strain so you don’t burn up the factory amp. Keep the speakers the same as much as possible also. I like lower Ohm speakers in a car for better sound quality. Loud isn’t always better, however I do want to crank it up from time to time. If you push an amp too hard sound gets distorted and noise distortion can blow speakers and even the amp.

Think about this…if you wire too many regular (non-LED) Christmas lights in a what happens to the lights? ...cont...

 

[kylo69]

Sound Testing Cont...

--------The Swap (Part 1) --------

After using the 5-step program above, I determined the following:

I want to keep costs down for now.

I am not adding a JL Audio Fix 82 processor, PAC audio harness or such to add another AMP (I may later, but for now, wanted to keep the $$$ lower since I may upgrade the head unit later).

Alpine Premium Audio System has the following:
12 Channel Amp with DSP for 7.1 adapted surround sound
3 – 3.5 speakers in the dash
2 – 6x9 speakers in the front doors
2 – 2.5 speakers in the headliner
2 – 6x9 speakers in the rear doors
1 – 8 subwoofer DVC under the rear seat

They have crossovers on several of the speakers on the amp already, i.e. front door speakers

There are several speakers that will fit, all types and models, however, you need to make sure you take out a speaker and see the depth before you order any. You can use spacers when needed too but it may bulge out the grills and make sure you have clearance on the windows in the doors.

Along with many different brands of speakers out there, some are better than others obviously. Mopar uses the Kickers since they are less expensive and good bang for the buck, but I’ve used kickers for years…and I’m not a fan of their treble, but it’s hard to beat their BASS for the price.

Typically speaking (of course there are various exceptions to this rule):
Lower end: Kicker, Pioneer, Rockford Fostgate
Middle End – Polk, JBL, Infinity
Higher End – JL Audio, Focal, Hertz, Morel

I went for a middle end, a good quality speaker: JBL. (no need to spend a ton of money in a truck on audio unless you are doing competition sound).

The ones I chose to swap first are the: JBL GX302 (Front Dash) and then the JBL GX962 (Rear Doors).

Later I will swap out the Sub in the back and the headliner speakers, lastly the front 6x9s (after testing all the speakers, I determined that the most crossed over speakers were the front doors, mostly bass comes out of these).

--------The Swap (Part 2) --------

I swapped the front 3 speakers in the dash first. Since that is where most of your treble (or lack thereof) is coming from, I wanted to see what those did first and foremost. Installation note: get you a knuckle buster standard 9/32 or 7mm wrench from the hardware store before you begin. OMG that far screw on the center channel is a pain to get out. Rest can be taken out with a simple stubby ratchet. When you install the newer speakers and before you mount them, always let your radio play per speaker (turn it off before you swap another one, etc) as you put them in so you know nothing comes unplugged.

--------The Test (Front Dash Speakers only) --------

Testing the radio after just the front speakers (some of this can be objective).

WOW. What a difference in sound in the front seats, I’m wondering if I even need to swap out any more. The lower Ohm speakers sound noticeably louder. (Note: another test is to bring both my teenager in and my wife, if they can tell the difference…which they did. I know it’s not a placebo effect. Hehe). The sounds were noticeably less muffled and blended, besides being able to hear more highs, the midrange is also clearer.

The decibel reader was also showing an average of +8 more on the louder sound end at the 20-volume setting between all the test songs (add them, divide, several tests, average deviation, etc.) I will call out the numbers from the songs able to make it simple and short. I am also not going off on how bad it sounded before, just noticing the differences afterwards below:

1. Easier to hear the vibes at the :15 mark of the song the 400-600 range of freq mid, singer voice clearer 2k range, the sax sounds fuller listen to the 3:32 mark when he starts to hit altissimo notes (also mid-high range) in the 1k range to the 2k range. Piano and cymbals are more defined.
2. I can go into more detail on this song as well, but the best thing to listen to here (throughout the song) is his movement along the frets with his hands (lower reverb, very faint and hard to hear, nearly impossible on the old speakers, but very distinct here). Also, the high hats how they echo at 1:18 in the song. Pure enjoyment!!! I almost forgot I was testing and had to listen to the song again.
3. Be careful with this song…I have had this one blow speakers (so don’t turn it up too loud when testing if you get poor quality speakers). On listening to this, the BASS will need improvement (Low range is 25-50 isn’t very clear). 6x9s in the back doors and front are needed. It’s not a clean BASS, too loose for my taste on this track. Listen for the Typani at :40 when it goes back and forth, much clearer than before, however needs improvement. At 1:27 is when you can hear the highs…. WOW much cleaner, can hear everything now. Pre-Install was very dull, now it comes alive.
4. OMG, I can hear the triangles at :16-:17 mark, I couldn’t even remember hearing them before. Very clear reverb on his voice now. Mids are noticeably clearer, I can hear highs that I didn’t hear before on this song, the strings (violins and cellos) the brass sounds live instead of a recording. Check out 2:33 in the song, if you listen close enough you can hear his voice making the studio mic crack a bit. You couldn’t hear that before at all.
5. This song shows off a few things: 1- Bass is not clean, 2- guitar reverb is better but muffled a bit still, vocals are cleaner, highs in this are very clear. Listen to the high hats throughout the syncs (all over the song). The double bass needs work. I will put more thought after the 6x9s to see if it makes a difference. Biggest deal on this song for testing, is it’s one of the few in the list that hits the most ranges of the Spectrum Analyzer to the red section (it can top it out if you don’t adjust the settings). Turn it up to 25 at the :20-:10 part of the song, listen to the guitar distortion and the synth. Very nice, so much better than before.
6. Obviously this one is for BASS testing. No real “noticeable” changes here since I’m going to see how the back 6x9s will affect it, not effect…bringing about the change! Although, I did listen to the song anyway to see if any changes and YES, I found new sounds, I can make out the vibes better (probably synthesized) in the song on the :31 mark.
7. Ok, for this song, I had to turn it up to 25 volume since it sounded SO MUCH better. I quit looking at the analyzer to listen without checking the times of the song. Lead vocals are very clear now, I can hear the very faint guitar picking clearly with the pick moving up the strings at the beginning of this song until the heavy guitars start. Cymbals are tight during the mid-part of the song before the synth keyboard comes in. The “Pink Floyd section” of the song is VERY CLEAR, nice to hear everything finally! On this song, it showcases the extreme highs around the last minute of the song. The 16k-18k range was finally registering on the Analyzer, I couldn’t hear it very well before the speaker swap.

All this from just replacing 3 speakers. The difference is remarkable.

This is just from this weekend. I was going to add the 6x9 tests for the rear seats to see if it made any noticeable changes in the above sound tests, however it started raining here and I didn’t get a chance to work on it. If enough people want me to add to this “hopeful sticky” I will continue the tests after swapping the rear 6x9s. Although, this should give you an idea about testing the sound.

If anyone has any good suggestions on music they feel I should test (when I do the back speakers) or any modifications to be made above, please let me know. I may not have verbalized or clarified all my thoughts properly. (This is a first draft).

 

[Eased]

Very good write up!

Stock speakers, even the "Alpine upgrade" are pretty bad. Replacing them makes a massive difference in sound quality.

 

[Ram Man]

"Mopar uses kicker"

So the alpine upgrade is kicker..?

 

[kylo69]

"Mopar uses kicker"

So the alpine upgrade is kicker..?

Ram Man, yes they do... Unless you pay for the "Alpine Upgrade". Then you get Alpine speakers (low end ones), an amp with a Harmon Kardon Head Unit, you can read that here: 2016-2017 Radio upgrades

What I was referring to is that Mopar uses kicker in their version of the premium speaker upgrades. (Not the Alpine Upgrade).

Mopar's website sells kicker upgrades for their "premium speaker upgrades" as far as my Ram is concerned anyway, go here: mopar for details.

I hope that answered your question?

 

[adrianp89]

I did not see any citations and formatting was supposed to be in ALA.

 

[kylo69]

Weather permitting, I'm planning on doing the 6x9 rear swap sound tests this weekend.

Anyone out there want me to use some other test songs? Was thinking about putting in Thunderstruck - AC/DC for the 6x9 tests along with the others and Burn Rubber - The Gap Band.

 

[BadHabit2Break]

Thunderstruck is on my list of testing.

I also use Adele "Hello", and some good country.

I didn't have the Alpine upgrade, just the basic 6 speaker with the 8.4A HU.

 

[adrianp89]

Thunderstruck is on my list of drinking games lol.

Have you been over on DIYMA? They have all sorts of tracks recommended for listening and tuning.

 

[joneseysr6]

Kylo69, do you have the extra jbl 3.5" for the front dash? I did this exact same upgrade ( jbl rear 6x9's, two of the three 3.5" dash speakers and the pioneer 8" sub). I was just waiting for somebody to have an exxtra jbl 3.5" that they would like to get rid of.

I too like the upgrades, but to be honest, its still a tad underwhelming, better, but underwhelming. Next truck, if its a Ram for me, i will likely do everything i can not to have the alpine system in it.

let me know

 

[kylo69]

AdrianP, Yes I have been to that website, but I prefer other people's thoughts to a myriad of the normal test songs. As you noticed in my list, most of them aren't the norm. The ones in the honorable mention list are. I do find some good items there from time to time though. Thanks for reminding me of that site! +1

Kylo69, do you have the extra jbl 3.5" for the front dash? I did this exact same upgrade ( jbl rear 6x9's, two of the three 3.5" dash speakers and the pioneer 8" sub). I was just waiting for somebody to have an exxtra jbl 3.5" that they would like to get rid of.

I too like the upgrades, but to be honest, its still a tad underwhelming, better, but underwhelming. Next truck, if its a Ram for me, i will likely do everything i can not to have the alpine system in it.

let me know

Joneseysr6 - I do have the extra JBL 3.5 with the Metra wiring harness from Crutchfield as well. It's brand new in the box, I just bought it last week, it's still covered in the plastic. You interested in it?

I would recommend once you replace all of the speakers and use either a media player, laptop or phone to stream your music (since this factory radio can't play FLAC or M4A) to test the sound also. It definitely sounds better using higher quality audio. However, if you want the music to really pump out, I would look into either another headunit and AMP or the JL Audio FIX and another amp. This would make a YUGE difference in sound output. I'm leaning towards another head unit with the factory iDataLink add on (to retain the Uconnect, steering wheel, HVAC, Camera settings) and another amp down the road.

The front 3 speaker swap already made a difference for me. Listening to Sabotage- Beastie Boys, Wasted Years - Iron Maiden or Trudy - Charlie Daniels Band when I crank those up (I know, completely different songs...but I like a lot of variety in my music)...they sound way better! However, I'll know more after I swap the back 6x9s, liner speakers, woofer, etc. On exactly what I'll do as the sound gets to be more full.

The Front = alive now
The Crew Cab = dead feeling now (I hear mush behind me).

 

[Bigdaddycodes]

really good write up, subscribed

 

[kylo69]

Thanks BigDaddy!

 

[joneseysr6]

Kyro69.... let me know what you want for the 3.5 jbl. Please let me know the model jsut to confirm its the 2ohm.

 

[Glenn]

Kylo69, in your write up you mention the front door speakers are already crossed over. As I mentioned in another thread, I have 6 1/2"components I was using in another ram. The way I did them in my last vehicle was to put the woofers in the door and the tweeters in the dash. I used the supplied crossover and tapped into the front speaker wires to power them. If the doors are already crossed over in the Alpine System, sounds like that might not be the best approach. Do you know if the dash speakers are crossed over as well? If that was the case, I suppose I could just throw the speakers in without the supplied crossover.

 

[adrianp89]

IIRC the fronts are crossed over in the 200-400 range, which is good for a 3.5" replacement, but much too low for a tweeter.

 

[kylo69]

Kylo69, in your write up you mention the front door speakers are already crossed over. As I mentioned in another thread, I have 6 1/2"components I was using in another ram. The way I did them in my last vehicle was to put the woofers in the door and the tweeters in the dash. I used the supplied crossover and tapped into the front speaker wires to power them. If the doors are already crossed over in the Alpine System, sounds like that might not be the best approach. Do you know if the dash speakers are crossed over as well? If that was the case, I suppose I could just throw the speakers in without the supplied crossover.

Glenn, what adrianp points out, but I'll add my 2cents to help also:

True tweeters don't sound that good in the dash because really high sounds have to be directional. Meaning, they have to hit you almost in a straight line. or in your face. Putting in separates would be a waste of the 3 front speakers in the dash (or 2 if you do the corners). Sound gets moved better by a two way up there (sound is frequency vibrations after all, more air to move the frequency will get to you better sound). If that makes sense? i.e. it's why you can hear bass down the block but not any vocals, lower frequencies are Omnidirectional (more or less).

If I would have gone the separate mid/tweeter route as you are talking about, I wouldn't have removed the front speakers, instead, back in the day, I would have installed some tiny KEFs (I wish they still made those awesome car tweeters, super small and could they sing) where the truck entry handle is (of course it goes by another name...the Oh <Blank> handle...heh) and then mids where the front 6x9s are and run separate wires to the small tweeters to the crossover between them and still utilize the front sound stage for surround sound. Note, I may eventually do that when I come to the front door after I replace the back doors and back headliner speakers...not sure yet. I just need to find the right tweeters for my taste (obviously some other brand) and what sound that I need from them (i.e. bright highs and/or harmonics I am lacking overall) but, I would have to add another amp for that particular set up due to the front doors being crossed over.

Therefore you would need 2 amps: One Factory and One Regular that was a 3 channel amp...or Factory and 2 more amps...lol with a Fix or something installed behind the HeadUnit or another HeadUnit.

A lot depends on how much $$$ you want to spend.

However, putting a mid only in the front door isn't a bad idea, maybe the tweeters can go in the headliner?

I hope this makes sense, your thoughts? Anything I need to clarify?

 

[adrianp89]

^^^ Depends on the tweeter. Some tweeters play excellent completely off axis, like in a dash. And some are designed with reflection in mind (I believe the JL C5 tweeters are designed to be placed in that exact location). However, I would never mix up the front stage. At most a 3-way active system with a center (and a very powerful processor), but I wouldn't have multiple speakers playing the same frequencies.

 

[Glenn]

Makes sense. Thanks for the input. I did have the tweeters in the dash in my last ram without the Alpine and it sounded excellent. I had originally put 3 1/2" coaxials in the dash and put the components in the door, but it sounded way too bright for my taste. It sounded much better putting the tweets in the dash without the 3 1/2". Who knows, maybe reflecting off the windshield?

 

[tripleplay]

I've done the JBL mod - all 3 dash, 963 rear doors, and the Pioneer drop in sub.
Got it all for just under $300. HUGE difference and highly recommend - at least the JBL's - I'm still unsure of the Pioneer sub and how much difference it made.
Great write up!