Synthetic Oil

Oil of Choice

  • Castrol Syntec/Edge

    Votes: 241 8.4%
  • Royal Purple

    Votes: 333 11.6%
  • AMSOil

    Votes: 408 14.3%
  • Valvoline Synpower

    Votes: 168 5.9%
  • Mobil 1

    Votes: 1,023 35.8%
  • Other

    Votes: 686 24.0%

  • Total voters
    2,859

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HEMIMANN

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Is there any paper suggesting AN would clean this well? You dont think it is just a different ester or lower amount? Is there any oxidation numbers in uoa/voa's out there? I find it so funny they were so willing to say their old formula restore product was ester on video and not tell us what this is, lol??

I'd chatted with Travis about this very thing some months back.
I recall that AN cleaned like an ester, but doesn't dissolve other additives like esters. Supposedly this allows more AN than ester, because too much ester interferes with additives performing, and instead they remain in solution. And also swells seals rubber, of course. Or something. lol. I'm not a chemist, I'm an applications and design engineer.

Then again, I remember esters are more for keeping parts clean than cleaning already dirty parts.
 

Burla

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I'd chatted with Travis about this very thing some months back.
I recall that AN cleaned like an ester, but doesn't dissolve other additives like esters. Supposedly this allows more AN than ester, because too much ester interferes with additives performing, and instead they remain in solution. And also swells seals rubber, of course. Or something. lol. I'm not a chemist, I'm an applications and design engineer.

Then again, I remember esters are more for keeping parts clean than cleaning already dirty parts.
I have seen autorx work with my own eyes, and they admitted the old restore product was ester. So ester will clean you up depending on type I'm sure. In that video the Valvoline guys admitted the old product was ester. I'm getting old in the tooth, I forget if there was issues with that. Wasn't the issue it was too strong and effective as a cleaner? I cant remember.
 

HEMIMANN

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I have seen autorx work with my own eyes, and they admitted the old restore product was ester. So ester will clean you up depending on type I'm sure. In that video the Valvoline guys admitted the old product was ester. I'm getting old in the tooth, I forget if there was issues with that. Wasn't the issue it was too strong and effective as a cleaner? I cant remember.

Yup. That's what Lake Speed said - they had to cut it back for general public use in a dirty engine so it didn't fail the engine with galley clogging.
So maybe R&P is just Red Line without the high moly?
Somewhere in these documentaries it was claimed R&P cleaned better than Red Line due to additives, though.
So I haven't completely resolved this in my mind yet. I just didn't want to spend extra for Red Line, HPL or Amsoil in the turbo-bangers if a lower cost oil would clean good enough.

R&P is priced higher than PUP, but only by a couple bucks where RL & HPL are nearly 3 times more expensive.
We don't drive the cars a lot either, but more than the Ram and in retirement multiple times more expensive supplies really add up.
 

Sherman Bird

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Yup. That's what Lake Speed said - they had to cut it back for general public use in a dirty engine so it didn't fail the engine with galley clogging.
So maybe R&P is just Red Line without the high moly?
Somewhere in these documentaries it was claimed R&P cleaned better than Red Line due to additives, though.
So I haven't completely resolved this in my mind yet. I just didn't want to spend extra for Red Line, HPL or Amsoil in the turbo-bangers if a lower cost oil would clean good enough.

R&P is priced higher than PUP, but only by a couple bucks where RL & HPL are nearly 3 times more expensive.
We don't drive the cars a lot either, but more than the Ram and in retirement multiple times more expensive supplies really add up.
After watching Lake Speed in several videos, I realize that he commits information overload, albeit necessary. He reminds me of the tech info I got a while back from a Shell lube engineer. Very similar in their messaging. As I interpreted it, Moly should be much lower in newer engines to prevent problems. The DEXOS1 3rd gen oil seems to check a lot of boxes, but no one oil is the magic elixir for the lot of the engines. The quality of the filter sure is important.
 

HEMIMANN

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After watching Lake Speed in several videos, I realize that he commits information overload, albeit necessary. He reminds me of the tech info I got a while back from a Shell lube engineer. Very similar in their messaging. As I interpreted it, Moly should be much lower in newer engines to prevent problems. The DEXOS1 3rd gen oil seems to check a lot of boxes, but no one oil is the magic elixir for the lot of the engines. The quality of the filter sure is important.

You bet. The hunt is on for those oil(s) that best tick the new engine needs boxes.
Hemi is long figured out.
 

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GM to report 5 billion loss in q4 blaming china, the same country in the post earlier with fields of rotting evs. Stellar tis CEO resigning, are we about to see a complete unraveling of auto industry? Wall street says add rivian to the list never in 15 years posted even a penny of profits. According the article 82% of every market revenue comes from tesla in 2023. Hmmm? All of this ev garbage and one company owns the market? maybe article wrong maybe 82 of every profits?
 
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Sherman Bird

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Is there any paper suggesting AN would clean this well? You dont think it is just a different ester or lower amount? Is there any oxidation numbers in uoa/voa's out there? I find it so funny they were so willing to say their old formula restore product was ester on video and not tell us what this is, lol??
Lower ester seems to be one contributing factor.
 

Treburkulosis

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I just did a PUP 0w20 oil change on the wifes 3.6 Jeep yesterday. I swear that stuff gets so dark. I know its typical Pennzoil, but it has never gone past 6k miles on an oil change. The Puraltor boss filter looked like it was nearing the end of its life as well. This really makes me wonder. Its ran its best on PUP as far as engine noise and I am getting a lot less dry starts with it. Is The Puralator boss filter not being made the same? I have looked them over each time and it appears nothing has changed. Now it’s got me concerned throwing one on my LSX engine. I maybe going down to O’riley and getting a WIX. I am able to run the truck filter so I am getting twice the filter size. Any new word on PUP that I have missed? @Burla @HEMIMANN?
 

Hemi395

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I just did a PUP 0w20 oil change on the wifes 3.6 Jeep yesterday. I swear that stuff gets so dark. I know its typical Pennzoil, but it has never gone past 6k miles on an oil change. The Puraltor boss filter looked like it was nearing the end of its life as well. This really makes me wonder. Its ran its best on PUP as far as engine noise and I am getting a lot less dry starts with it. Is The Puralator boss filter not being made the same? I have looked them over each time and it appears nothing has changed. Now it’s got me concerned throwing one on my LSX engine. I maybe going down to O’riley and getting a WIX. I am able to run the truck filter so I am getting twice the filter size. Any new word on PUP that I have missed? @Burla @HEMIMANN?
What did the Purolator filter look like? Was it kind of collapsed onto the center tube?

Reason I ask is I had this issue with the Amsoil EA filter for the 3.6, I went back with a Mopar filter last time because of that...
 

HEMIMANN

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I just did a PUP 0w20 oil change on the wifes 3.6 Jeep yesterday. I swear that stuff gets so dark. I know its typical Pennzoil, but it has never gone past 6k miles on an oil change. The Puraltor boss filter looked like it was nearing the end of its life as well. This really makes me wonder. Its ran its best on PUP as far as engine noise and I am getting a lot less dry starts with it. Is The Puralator boss filter not being made the same? I have looked them over each time and it appears nothing has changed. Now it’s got me concerned throwing one on my LSX engine. I maybe going down to O’riley and getting a WIX. I am able to run the truck filter so I am getting twice the filter size. Any new word on PUP that I have missed? @Burla @HEMIMANN?

According to the Ascent Test some years back, Purolator Boss was a rock catcher, like Wix.
I went with Fram Endurance.
 

HEMIMANN

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Get a uoa, an oil getting dark is from the engine.

Burla's got it, per usual.
Dark oil (not from oxidizing) is good.
1st time I used PUP years back it got really dark = cleaned per the Sequence IIID test Pennzoil advertised back then, compared to Mobil 1. Some 10 years ago. That's when Bitog got religion and started using PUP.

Much water flowed over the dam since 2014, though. Now we have newcomer Valvoline Restore & Protect oil advertising the same thing, except that it cleans dirty engines, not just keeps clean engines clean. Is it better than PUP as a GDI oil? Unknown yet.
If the 3.6 isn't GDI, I wouldn't worry about it. PFI engines don't load oil with unburned gas and soot.
 

Burla

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Remember when ultra first came out? Guys posting how dark it got and quick it got there over bobs? I would say it is a good cleaning oil. I dont know that there is any gauge past detergency levels, but my guess is gtl might be more soluble with contamination then mineral oil. I have no proof and have long left these types of discussions, but I have always thought that from gathering reports at bobs. My wife's car loves the pup, having little weird things going on with Kirkland, nothing major, but I'm thinking about going back, maybe.
 

HEMIMANN

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Mike, I did some research on it before I joined here, while still at bob's.

I knew the ****'s invented coal-to-gas and named Fischer-Tropsch process, and Shell found using methane as the feedstock instead of coal is similar, but without all the impurities found in coal.

This assumes the methane is properly reformed and scrubbed to remove naturally-occuring hydrogen sulfide gas H2S. So, GTL is far cleaner than a cat cracked, severely hydrotreated, Group III crude oil.

In addition, carbon chain saturation with hydrogen is significantly higher in GTL than from crude, this is why GTL base oil is a Group III 'Plus' - it is better than required for a Group III oil, but not quite as good as Group IV PAO.

So what? It means GTL base oil is less subject to oxidation than conventional crude Group III base oil, = lower varnish deposits over time, also lasts longer.

But it's still not as pure as a true Group IV PAO base oil constructed from ethylene gas via polymerization, the highest molecular saturation level possible - for a LOT more money than GTL oil.

I view GTL as poor man's Group IV PAO. Plenty good enough for the 5k mile OCI needed to dump high soot and fuel dilution contamination. PAO is a waste for such short OCI's.

Finally, the more saturated the base oil, the less ability it has to hold additives in solution, and the more polar ester base oil is needed to do so. GTL base oil needs more ester. Somewhere I read a pure Group IV PAO base oil needs 10% ester to be able to hold the additives in solution.
 

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Burla

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I was crushing a little on the new VW bus. Just because my best friends dad had one growing up and every vaca we packed it full of kids and went camping. Now, they seamed to have fixed one issue, the new one is lower to ground, big plus imo as the wind always blew us all over the road. So the was part, well they start at over 60k, lol. Yeah, thanks for the memories, wont be buying a bus for 60 plus g's you idiots.
 
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