Synthetic vs Ester-Synthetic

[Sash]

I used to think that Synthetic was the best choice but recently read that an Ester based Synthetic is even superior What is the word on this? What are the pros and cons of running an Ester based Synthetic vs a Regular Synthetic?

 

[crash68]

This topic has @Burla written all over it, he knows a couple of things about oil.

 

[Farmer Fran]

Rumor is, royal purple gets rid of hemi tick.

 

[Burla]

Time tested esters are the way to go, ram forum has lived the results of members who changed their oil to esters. Some respected members here even believe it is the esters that kill hemi tick, which i say it surely is possible.

However, if you go with some random race oil, you may end up with seal eating esters, because race cars don't care about that, the engine only lives for one race or 2/3 tops, and then it tore down. The race oil in question uses Alkylated Naphthalene as their group 5 blended with pao. So the point is you asked for cons of esters which I will classify as group 5 base oils, and the only con other then price is potential seal damage, which really is only a risk on unknown oils or mixing, as opposed to any risk with known oils like redline or rp. The benefits are on the chart, esters work better in the cold and warm environments, bot not on the chart, they can actually clean. The have engine cleaners that are nothing more then esters, and you can see them clean.

 

[Sash]

hey Burla what do you know about ester base oil (what redline is ) cause seal swelling and results in oil leak , there is some article floating around the internet about this . anyone on the forums that use redline long term experience any oil leak problems ?

 

[HEMIMANN]

Polyol Esters are labeled synthetic. They are in API Group V. Synthesized hydrocarbons are API Group IV. Catalytic Cracked and Severely Hydrotreated are API Group III.

Questions?

 

[Burla]

ram forum members like myself have ten years running redline, zero seal issues. It is a balanced formula, they formulate their oils to be balanced, no seal issues.

 

[Farmer Fran]

Polyol Esters are labeled synthetic. They are in API Group V. Synthesized hydrocarbons are API Group IV. Catalytic Cracked and Severely Hydrotreated are API Group III.

Questions?

Many

 

[Sash]

Many

don't be shy ask away !!!

 

[Farmer Fran]

How many hemi motors have been produced in the last 10 years? (yes, I know)

How many are still in service - NO CLUE

How many do Dealer service and are still in service?
How many do it themselves and are still in service?
Haw many do it themselves with a variance of oils and are still in service?

The problem I have with "statistics" is you can usually make the numbers look like whatever you want, especially if you do not have all the information. I personally feel like it is more of a crapshoot with the build/the person's habits and keyboard ninjas.

My personal experience... and I admit after reading the interwebs today I would not have done this back then, but

I had a 2004 GTO - the 5.7 LS1, pushrod and "similar" to the Hemi. This was my DD in Maryland. So hot in the summer - drove it the snow in the winter.

I did an oil change at 500 miles (Mobil 1) and then at 1000 and 2000. At that point I had the car "heavily" modified for the 1320'. I ran over 350 - quarter mile runs - all on mobil 1, and 200 of them on the same change. No issues.

These were 1.5 to 1.7, sixty-foot rollouts and low 12s to high 11s ETA with 115 to 118 Trap. The car never had an issue. Heads pulled off and they looked "band new"

<---keyboard ninja

 

[Farmer Fran]

don't be shy ask away !!!

Was hoping for a white paper or just generally more info on the subject

 

[rotts4u]

Here is part 1 of an article I WROTE several years ago for Sport Rider Magazine which is a motorcycle magazine. It is aimed at motorcycles but it does have a lot of info that may answer the basic questions on the differences in Group III. IV and V oils

Oils Well That Ends Well, Part 1

Editor's Note: This is Part One of a special Sport Rider comparison test, where we unlock the mysteries and debunk some of the myths of motor oil. We examine just what goes into motor oil, why those ingredients are there and what it means for your engine. In the next issue, Part Two will feature...

www.cycleworld.com

 

[HEMIMANN]

Those questions were unrelated to the topic at hand.
@Tach_tech estimated 5-10% of Hemi engines sold through his dealership failed due to inadequate lubrication of valve lifters.
If they are repaired or replaced and out "back in service", how does that translate to everything's fins?

I will say from 33 years in powertrain I industry such a failure rate involving a catastrophic failure is grossly unacceptable within new product development profiles.

Rather than starting with an uninformed opinion, I'd suggest asking for more information on a forum such as this.

 

[Zoe Saldana]

How many hemi motors have been produced in the last 10 years? (yes, I know)

How many are still in service - NO CLUE

How many do Dealer service and are still in service?
How many do it themselves and are still in service?
Haw many do it themselves with a variance of oils and are still in service?

The problem I have with "statistics" is you can usually make the numbers look like whatever you want, especially if you do not have all the information. I personally feel like it is more of a crapshoot with the build/the person's habits and keyboard ninjas.

My personal experience... and I admit after reading the interwebs today I would not have done this back then, but

I had a 2004 GTO - the 5.7 LS1, pushrod and "similar" to the Hemi. This was my DD in Maryland. So hot in the summer - drove it the snow in the winter.

I did an oil change at 500 miles (Mobil 1) and then at 1000 and 2000. At that point I had the car "heavily" modified for the 1320'. I ran over 350 - quarter mile runs - all on mobil 1, and 200 of them on the same change. No issues.

These were 1.5 to 1.7, sixty-foot rollouts and low 12s to high 11s ETA with 115 to 118 Trap. The car never had an issue. Heads pulled off and they looked "band new"

<---keyboard ninja

For a guy that doesn't like numbers; you have a lot.

 

[Burla]

That is what I was thinking, sounds like his mind is made up but still wants white paper. There are tons of white paper on esters on the board in syn thread (first 100 pages or so) and at BITOG. Esters buy you 60-100 degrees of operating temp give or take based on which formula is being used. Esters survive much more heat then group 3 oil, which may explain why they kill so many ticks on the board, because you know tick condition creates much more heat then in a normal engine.

Formulas that use a very low % of esters would be just marginal over group 3 oil.

 

[HEMIMANN]

That is what I was thinking, sounds like his mind is made up but still wants white paper. There are tons of white paper on esters on the board in syn thread (first 100 pages or so) and at BITOG. Esters buy you 60-100 degrees of operating temp give or take based on which formula is being used. Esters survive much more heat then group 3 oil, which may explain why they kill so many ticks on the board, because you know tick condition creates much more heat then in a normal engine.

Formulas that use a very low % of esters would be just marginal over group 3 oil.

Plus they have surface wetting affinity for metal surfaces. Linear hydrocarbon chain oils do not.

 

[Farmer Fran]

For a guy that doesn't like numbers; you have a lot.

I do not like statistics. Numbers are just numbers.

 

[Zoe Saldana]

I do not like statistics. Numbers are just numbers.

Statistics are made from numbers. You said so: "The problem I have with "statistics" is you can usually make the numbers..."

 

[HEMIMANN]

We use statistical data to make design decisions on products every single say. I did this all throughout my career.
Inexperienced or corrupt executives make bad interpretations. That doesn't means statistics are useless. It means you haven't been educated about them, and should trust thoas who have been.

 

[Farmer Fran]

Statistics are made from numbers. You said so: "The problem I have with "statistics" is you can usually make the numbers..."

Seriously, ok,

50 of 100 cars ran a red light between 5am and 6am on Wednesday 12/8/2021.

This does not equate to 50% of the cars runnining the redlight "at any given time"