Towin

[GsRAM]

Um, if a good lawyer convinces a jury that Mrs. Smith who was pregnant died because of your gross negligence of knowingly being 3,000 pounds over your vehicle's GCWR then yeah, you can be criminally charged. And I have read about it happening.

Mo is correct. While it may not be a criminal act per se, if you run knowingly overweight and wreck and injure someone, don't think for one minute a good lawyer would not use that to his advantage in a civil suit.

If you run over your registered weight and get caught the fines are big. I believe $1 per pound over here in pa, but I'm not certain of that.

To me personally, it's just not worth the risk running over your payload or registered weights, but that's just me and why I stepped up to a 2500 last year and love it, no regrets at all.

 

[Black W900]

Mo is correct. While it may not be a criminal act per se, if you run knowingly overweight and wreck and injure someone, don't think for one minute a good lawyer would not use that to his advantage in a civil suit

You made my point for me.

 

[spoon059]

Um, if a good lawyer convinces a jury that Mrs. Smith who was pregnant died because of your gross negligence of knowingly being 3,000 pounds over your vehicle's GCWR then yeah, you can be criminally charged. And I have read about it happening.

3000 over your GCWR is pretty darn high, yes. I would never advocate for being that high... but I still doubt your argument is as easy as you make it seem to be.

The good lawyer would have to prove that you being 3000 lbs over the GCWR was the direct cause AND that it was unsafe to do so.

AAM makes the axles in the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. They rate the axles for 10,000 lbs. Its very easy to argue that the axle can support up to 10,000lbs, even though I would never load a 3/4 or 1 ton truck up that high. (doubt you can find tires rated for 5,000 lbs each that you could stuff under the truck).

Ram themselves rated my front axle at 5500 lbs and rear axle at 6500 lbs with 18" tires. Ram certifies the axle, the suspension, the wheel studs, the brakes, the wheels and everything else associated with the axle to haul a combined 12,000 lbs. Even though the yellow sticker says 10,000 lbs (class 2B designation limits to 10,000 lbs), the truck is clearly tested to safely handle far more than the yellow sticker.

My tires are rated for 3640 lbs each. That means that per axle, I have tires rated for 7280 lbs, or total truck is rated for 14,560 lbs of tire rating. Very easy to argue that my 3/4 ton truck had sufficient tire rating to haul 14,560 lbs.

You see how simply being over the yellow sticker has ZERO bearing in the real world?

Now they have to prove that something YOU did made your vehicle negligently unsafe. They have to convince 7 jurors that your actions were negligent. If is FAR easier to prove negligence by driver action rather than weight. The driver was distracted by texting... the driver failed to take appropriate reactive measures to an incident... the driver was going too fast for conditions... the driver failed to maintain vehicle condition (tires were bald, brakes weren't properly serviced, etc). All those are far easier to prove negligence. Simply being over a yellow sticker weight doesn't prove negligence, in and of itself.

 

[Joes1500]

There is way more involved than just what your axles and tires are rated for.

You might want to give this a read.


http://www.trucktrend.com/news/163-0910-truck-towing-capacity/



Just because the state will sell you a registration saying your vehicle can weigh over what the manufacturer recommends does not mean anything to the DOT. All that registration does is prove that you paid the appropriate (tax) to be able to carry that much weight down there road. It does not change a thing on your vehicle. All it will do is get you one less ticket if your ever checked and are over your recommended weight.

You will still be overweight on your equipment (truck or trailer). There is no way around that , unless you have a special inspection and certification done to your vehicle saying that it has been modified to carry more weight.

 

[Jimmy07]

Just because the state will sell you a registration saying your vehicle can weigh over what the manufacturer recommends does not mean anything to the DOT. All that registration does is prove that you paid the appropriate (tax) to be able to carry that much weight down there road. It does not change a thing on your vehicle. All it will do is get you one less ticket if your ever checked and are over your recommended weight.

You will still be overweight on your equipment (truck or trailer). There is no way around that , unless you have a special inspection and certification done to your vehicle saying that it has been modified to carry more weight.

What law (specifically, with a link) would someone towing a personal RV be breaking if they were overweight, that DOT could ticket you for?

 

[Joes1500]

What law (specifically, with a link) would someone towing a personal RV be breaking if they were overweight, that DOT could ticket you for?

True , if it is a personal truck and rv, they are not subject to DOT.

Doesn't specifically have to be DOT to wright you an overweight ticket. Here in Texas, Sherrifs and state highway have there own portable scales. Just like it doesn't have to be a DOT officer to wright you a log book violation.


In short , just being overweight is against the law , if it weren't then why do we have a weight limit on our registration. What more proof do you need. Why do you think they have scales at all the inspection stations on the highways. Granted pulling an RV you dont have to go through them , unless you are not running (not for hire).



An RV just exempts you from needing a class A cdl to tow a vehicle that has a gvwr of over 10,001 lbs. Just because you are towing something registered as an RV does not exempt you from the tow vehicles gvcwr rating, or rear axle weight rating.
So technically you can get an over weight ticket if your tow vehicle is not rated to tow what the gvwr is on any trailer, rv or not.





So if you take a half ton pickup let's keep it simple and say it is allowed pull (by the numbers) 11000lbs and have a payload of 1000lbs. Now I know those numbers aren't correct but like I said let's keep it easy.
So let's say this guy buys a camper (rv) and it has a dry weight of 9000lbs. So then he gets it ready with all his stuff and now it weighs 11500lbs. But has a gvwr of 12000. So the trailer is not over weight itself.

He hooks it up to his truck and it now has 1200 tounge weight because he doesn't know how to load a trailer. So now he is over weight on his truck and most likely his rear axle and possibly his tire. And he is also overweight on his gvcwr because his trailer weighs more then 11,000.

So the tickets will be for
over gvwr vehicle A.
Over gvcwr vehicle A
overweight rear axle vehicle A
Possible ticket for underrated tires.


Been driving big trucks along time. I have seen tickets for stuff you not believe, but they were legal tickets.

 

[Black W900]

True , if it is a personal truck and rv, they are not subject to DOT.

Doesn't specifically have to be DOT to wright you an overweight ticket. Here in Texas, Sherrifs and state highway have there own portable scales. Just like it doesn't have to be a DOT officer to wright you a log book violation.


In short , just being overweight is against the law , if it weren't then why do we have a weight limit on our registration. What more proof do you need. Why do you think they have scales at all the inspection stations on the highways. Granted pulling an RV you dont have to go through them , unless you are not running (not for hire).



An RV just exempts you from needing a class A cdl to tow a vehicle that has a gvwr of over 10,001 lbs. Just because you are towing something registered as an RV does not exempt you from the tow vehicles gvcwr rating, or rear axle weight rating.
So technically you can get an over weight ticket if your tow vehicle is not rated to tow what the gvwr is on any trailer, rv or not.





So if you take a half ton pickup let's keep it simple and say it is allowed pull (by the numbers) 11000lbs and have a payload of 1000lbs. Now I know those numbers aren't correct but like I said let's keep it easy.
So let's say this guy buys a camper (rv) and it has a dry weight of 9000lbs. So then he gets it ready with all his stuff and now it weighs 11500lbs. But has a gvwr of 12000. So the trailer is not over weight itself.

He hooks it up to his truck and it now has 1200 tounge weight because he doesn't know how to load a trailer. So now he is over weight on his truck and most likely his rear axle and possibly his tire. And he is also overweight on his gvcwr because his trailer weighs more then 11,000.

So the tickets will be for
over gvwr vehicle A.
Over gvcwr vehicle A
overweight rear axle vehicle A
Possible ticket for underrated tires.


Been driving big trucks along time. I have seen tickets for stuff you not believe, but they were legal tickets.

You guys are killin' me....

I love the way y'all weave around this subject and attempt to compare Joe Average pulling a travel trailer to a commercial vehicle with regard to what the DOT has to say about the way he loads his vehicle.

The DOT couldn't care less if you are a little overweight with your T/T and pickup.
Maybe....Just maybe, if you are in a serious crash with your T/T where someone loses their life, they will attempt to establish whether you were substantially overweight, although in most of the really serious accidents I've seen RV's involved in, the RV and it's contents are usually swept up and loaded in dumpsters and hauled away

Under most circumstances, the DOT are not interested...

I've seen literally thousands of obviously overloaded pickup trucks pulling trailers of all types passing DOT's and State Troopers all over this country, and the one thing they all had in common was being completely ignored by the cops.

While I agree that we should always strive to get the combination as close to the weight rating on the truck as possible and distribute the weight so that the combination handles correctly, I just can't help but laugh at all of the "Internet Doomsday Scenarios" that get tossed around as though they are fact.

I've driven commercial trucks and pulled travel trailers for 46 years and you know what?
I have never seen or heard of a guy being pulled over and weighed by a DOT, Sheriff, Local cop or anyone else with portable scales.

Is it possible? Yeah, if you want to split hairs I suppose it is.
Is it gonna happen?

No.

 

[spoon059]

Just because the state will sell you a registration saying your vehicle can weigh over what the manufacturer recommends does not mean anything to the DOT. All that registration does is prove that you paid the appropriate (tax) to be able to carry that much weight down there road. It does not change a thing on your vehicle.

True , if it is a personal truck and rv, they are not subject to DOT.

Doesn't specifically have to be DOT to wright you an overweight ticket. Here in Texas, Sherrifs and state highway have there own portable scales. Just like it doesn't have to be a DOT officer to wright you a log book violation.


In short , just being overweight is against the law , if it weren't then why do we have a weight limit on our registration.
....

Been driving big trucks along time. I have seen tickets for stuff you not believe, but they were legal tickets.

Respectfully Joe, which is it? You tell me that DOT will jam me up for being overweight, then you respond to someone else and state that DOT won't jam them up for being overweight. Which version of your story are we to believe?

Then you write that being overweight is against the law. You are 100% right (though doubtfully in the way you think you are) about being overweight. If you are over your registered weight, over your tire ratings or over the Federal bridge weight limits then you can get hooked up with some citations. But you can register your vehicle for whatever weight you want, you just have to pay the fee to move that weight across the roadway.

Regardless, you seem to be confusing DOT laws with regular interstate traffic laws. Driving commercial is a different beast. When you drive a commercial motor vehicle, you are required to submit to random inspections on the side of the road. You can be stopped and inspected for little to no reason. Average Joe Citizen cannot be stopped without probable cause that a traffic violation occurred. Once Average Joe Citizen is stopped, a police officer can't simply inspect the vehicle for weights on a hunch, there has to be probable cause to inspect the weight. Even after all of that, if I am under my registered weight then there is NOTHING that a police officer can do about it.

Trust me on this one Joe, I've been a cop for 16 years. The only charges a police officer can give you would be insufficient registration (meaning you are registered for too low of a weight) or unsafe motor vehicle (meaning your tires are insufficient to carry the load). Commercial laws do not apply to RV's, unless they are being transported commercially.

 

[spoon059]

Maybe....Just maybe, if you are in a serious crash with your T/T where someone loses their life, they will attempt to establish whether you were substantially overweight, although in most of the really serious accidents I've seen RV's involved in, the RV and it's contents are usually swept up and loaded in dumpsters and hauled away

Precisely right. In a bad collision there are going to be parts and debris everywhere. The last fatal wreck I worked was about a month ago. A Mercedes car and a Ford SUV struck each other. The main debris field was about 300 yards long and 100 yards wide. The Mercedes was sheared in half. There was so much stuff and no real way to tell what came out of what vehicle, other then car parts. Fluids from one car were absorbed into debris from the other car. Trash on the side of the road could become mixed in with debris from the cars.

There is no way that a crash investigator could be that specific to the weight of your vehicle going down the road prior to the collision to state a specific and exact number. Just like they can't give a specific speed (unless they pull it from the computer). They give a range estimate. Even then, they have to prove that being over weight was the cause or a significant factor in the crash, rising to the point of negligence. Like I said... its far more likely that driver error, distraction or poor vehicle condition is leading to a crash, not simply being 1000 or 2000 lbs over the manufacturers GVWR sticker.

 

[Joes1500]

Respectfully Joe, which is it? You tell me that DOT will jam me up for being overweight, then you respond to someone else and state that DOT won't jam them up for being overweight. Which version of your story are we to believe?

Then you write that being overweight is against the law. You are 100% right (though doubtfully in the way you think you are) about being overweight. If you are over your registered weight, over your tire ratings or over the Federal bridge weight limits then you can get hooked up with some citations. But you can register your vehicle for whatever weight you want, you just have to pay the fee to move that weight across the roadway.

Regardless, you seem to be confusing DOT laws with regular interstate traffic laws. Driving commercial is a different beast. When you drive a commercial motor vehicle, you are required to submit to random inspections on the side of the road. You can be stopped and inspected for little to no reason. Average Joe Citizen cannot be stopped without probable cause that a traffic violation occurred. Once Average Joe Citizen is stopped, a police officer can't simply inspect the vehicle for weights on a hunch, there has to be probable cause to inspect the weight. Even after all of that, if I am under my registered weight then there is NOTHING that a police officer can do about it.

Trust me on this one Joe, I've been a cop for 16 years. The only charges a police officer can give you would be insufficient registration (meaning you are registered for too low of a weight) or unsafe motor vehicle (meaning your tires are insufficient to carry the load). Commercial laws do not apply to RV's, unless they are being transported commercially.

If you read my post I agree that DOT will not get you in a personal vehicle. But like I also said here in texas the sheriff's and highway have portables and do use them , and do weight overweight tickets on noncommercial vehicles. You can trust me on that. I have seen them . I didn't believe it either until I saw them.

 

[Joes1500]

Here in texas they have a sweet spot for a couple people.

One is the Mexicans with there loaded down Toyota's and small trucks heading back across the border with a big load of anything and everything in the back.


Secondly is the ranchers. People pulling horse trailers with anything from a minivan to a Cadillac.

Now any horse trailer with living area is able to be registered as an rv. But they like pull 4 horse gooseneck with living area with half tons. And then they have the big 40 foot and longer ones which is fine, but if your using a Chevy you are an easy target. The Chevy 1ton duallys are not rated to pull **** compared to the Ford and dodge. And believe me , these cops know this and do pull them , and do wright overweight tickets.


Especially around rodeo season.

 

[Joes1500]

Perfect example, this was at the truck stop at around 4pm today. County sheriff was putting the portables away in the back of his Tahoe as we pulled up. Dont know if a ticket was written, but I know he got weighed.

 

[spoon059]

Why was he stopped, what violation would he have received (if he were to receive one)? He certainly appears tall, I wonder if he was in violation of a law for that. If he is registered for 7200 lbs (assuming its a half ton), but he scales out at 9000 lbs then he can absolutely be cited for being "overweight", however if he is registered for 10,000 lbs (even if his yellow sticker says 7200 lbs) then there ain't too much that the Deputy could do about it.

https://www.txdmv.gov/motor-carriers/oversize-overweight-permits/texas-size-weight-limits
This is a link to the Texas Dept of Motor Vehicles, defining an "overweight" vehicle. It clearly defines a single axle max rating as 20,000 lbs. Anything more requires a special permit (in other words, more money). These are laws that apply to "motor carriers", which is different than "passenger vehicles", which is how a privately owned and operated pickup truck would be referred.

I find absolutely nothing regarding weight restrictions, outside of the CVE (Commercial Vehicle Enforcement) section of the Texas DMV traffic law book. Can you provide any link or quote any specific traffic law in Texas that applies to GVWR enforcement in the great state of Texas? I would be very interested to read it, because based upon my knowledge, it simply doesn't exist. Texas, like almost every other reciprocity state in the Union, allows you to register your vehicle for whatever weight for which you wish to pay. You usually cannot register a vehicle for LESS than your GVWR, but I haven't seen a state in which you cannot register a vehicle for MORE than your GVWR. It would be very surprising to me if Texas placed such restrictions...

 

[spoon059]

I was curious and searched a little bit. I can't find any specific mention of GVWR in the TxDMV.GOV website, outside of commercial vehicles. None of those laws apply to Average Joe Citizen towing his RV. I did find the registration fee schedule, though. Here is a link... https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&ved=0ahUKEwicmqvFrb3aAhVidt8KHYZdCH8QFghaMAs&url=http://www.txdmv.gov/txdmv-forms/doc_download/2023-texas-registration-fees-fee-chart-1c&usg=AOvVaw2CceecGio0mJpnzG9-J6Ba

Read this part, this is EXACTLY what I was talking about...


Note: The gross vehicle weight of a truck is determined by adding the empty weight of the vehicle and the heaviest load that will be carried by the vehicle (carrying capacity) during the registration year.


So I take my gross weight of my Ram 2500, which is about 7600 lbs or so. Then I take the heaviest load that I will carry in my truck, lets say 3400 lbs. That means that Teas says I have to register for 11,000 lbs. But... but... but my yellow sticker says 10,000 lbs. Texas (like many other states) doesn't care about that sticker. They will register your vehicle for the empty weight plus the heaviest load that will be carried. Registered weight has absolutely NOTHING to do with your GVWR, outside of DOT or Commercial regulations. That means that as long as you are properly registered for the weight, the police can do absolutely nothing to you.

 

[Joes1500]

I dont know why he was stopped. And I dont know if he was given a ticket. But fact is he was weighed. Now why would an officer waste the time to weigh him if he didn't think he could give him a ticket ?

It is obviously a half ton truck hence the six bolt wheels.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this. I have seen the tickets personally. And next time I see one I will take a picture and share.

 

[spoon059]

I dont know why he was stopped. And I dont know if he was given a ticket. But fact is he was weighed. Now why would an officer waste the time to weigh him if he didn't think he could give him a ticket ?

It is obviously a half ton truck hence the six bolt wheels.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this. I have seen the tickets personally. And next time I see one I will take a picture and share.

I don't think we are disagreeing on much, as I still don't know what your argument is. If that picture was a half ton and he was over his registered weight than he was illegal. There is no question about that.

My point is that your registered weight does not have to be tied to the arbitrary number placed on the yellow sticker by the manufacturer. Whether you disagree with me or not is irrelevant, I am discussing the LAW. The law is very specific... the yellow sticker either matters or it doesn't. An overloaded half ton pickup truck is irrelevant.

 

[Joes1500]

And yes you can register trucks for less then there (class).

https://dmv.ny.gov/registration/register-pick-truck-passenger-class-vehicle

 

[Joes1500]

I never said that the registration has to match the manufacturer's numbers.

What I said was the registration does not change what your truck can hual.

Just because you register it heavier does not mean you are completely legal to hual that much.

Example. Does changing my registration change the load rating on my tires? Does it change the load rating on my axles?how about my suspension or brakes? No it does not.

You can be written a ticket for those violations. Not saying it happens all over, but it does happen.

 

[spoon059]

So... what are you saying?

You've been arguing with me when I say that the GVWR doesn't matter for registration, then you say that the registration doesn't need to match the GVWR sticker. I'm confused about our discussion if you don't even know what you are discussing.

The registration absolutely changes what you are legally allowed to haul. Again... please show me the wording for the law in Texas that states how much a suspension can carry.

I think I already mentioned tire ratings several times... if you are under your tire ratings you are fine.

Again... Ram states my combined axle ratings (including brakes, wheels, suspension and tires) are 12,000 lbs. 5500 front, 6500 rear. The entire package is certified by the final assembler (Ram) for 12,000 lbs. My truck is a 3/4 ton truck though, and my GVWR sticker is 10,000 lbs. The 10,000 lbs is an arbitrary number to keep my truck in the class 2B range. Does the yellow sticker and 10,000 arbitrary rating somehow have a real world effect on the ratings issued by Ram?

PLEASE show me a charge for these "violations" of which you speak. I quoted law and gave factual examples. You are expressing opinion for tickets you have seen (did you receive them yourself, or did you just hear a story from a guy) and posting a picture of a half ton truck with zero actual information about it. Those aren't factual... that is anecdotal at best.

 

[Joes1500]

What I specifically said is this

If your front axle is rated for 5k and your rear axle is rated for 5k . That is all they are allowed to weigh if you get weighed. A different number on your registration does not and will not change that fact.

So yes you could be registered for the weight but you are still over weight on the manufacturer's numbers.

All the registration is , is a tax . That says you paid a specific amount in order to travel down that's states roads carrying up to that amount of weight. It does not say your vehicle is capable of hauling that weight. The last I knew the states did not inspect or certify vehicle gvwr's. It simply saves you from another ticket for exceeding registration.

If what you are saying is true then we wouldn't need big trucks(semis). We could just buy a 1 ton dually register it for 80-90k and be good as long as you weren't commercial. And yes there are many non commercial semis out there.


I have never seen a registration that specified axle weights just total weight. So your saying that I could legally put 10k in the bed of my 1ton and drive down the road l because its registered for up to 18k ? No need to worry about the axle rating or tire rating.