Towing Mileage Comparison / Questions

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pacofortacos

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Correct, I have a 100 gallon aux tank in the bed which weighs about 100 pounds dry.

I knew I was buying a 10k gvwr truck, it just never crossed my mind that the truck weighs 7800 pounds.

I stand by the original statement - diesel 3/4 tons don't make any sense. I really wish I had gotten a gas engine or a 1 ton.
Would it be possible to move the extra tank to the trailer or is it actually plumbed into the trucks fuel system?

If you can move it to the trailer, that would give you almost all of that payload back.
 

yrraljguthrie

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Driving 50,000 miles at 10mpg uses 5000 gallons of fuel.
Driving 50,000 miles at 15mpg uses 3333 gallons of fuel.
Driving 50,000 miles at 20mpg uses 2500 gallons of fuel.

At $4.00 a gallon that is $20,000, 13232
 

yrraljguthrie

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Whoops my fingers didn't work correctly. Posted by accident. If I made a mistake in my figures, just post the change you don't need to tell me I made a mistake I can figure it out.

Driving 50,000 miles at 10mpg uses 5000 gallons of fuel.
Driving 50,000 miles at 15mpg uses 3333 gallons of fuel.
Driving 50,000 miles at 20mpg uses 2500 gallons of fuel.

At $4.00 a gallon that is $20,000, 13332, and $10,000
At $3.00 a gallon, the differences will of course be less by about a fourth.

Say you drive only 25,000 miles then 10,000, 6,666, and $5000

If you could change habits and gain 1.25 mpg those savings are effectively reduced by 1/4.

Pretty hard to justify a new pickup that costs $60-80 thousand.
Pretty hard to justify a new pickup under any circumstances for the majority of pickup owners. We just have the money and like the look and feel.
If you want a new truck then get one, but you're not likely to be able to justify the change.

Buy the wife a new SUV and use that to justify a pickup for yourself.
 

ppine

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Diesels have more power for towing and more torque. They get better mpg. Diesel prices vary by region. In the West, diesel fuel usually costs less than gas. Maintenance is not that different than a gas engine. Diesels can go 300,000 miles at least. It is no contest if you are objective about the differences. Diesels hold their value much better when it comes time to sell them. I bought my last Ford 7.3 for 35k and sold it 20 years later for 16k.
 

Choupique

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I've never had an issue with a 4 door long bed outside of big city parking.

I just don't take my truck to the middle of the major cities.

Hell, I wish mine was a dually.
 

Mike Wenrich

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Being a newbe I don't know if this question has been asked quite this way but here goes. I have a 2004.5 Dodge diesel that has been a great truck but little things are starting to happen. I'm a shade tree mechanic but now older than dirt and cannot imagine working alongside a hwy any more. So I also have a 2021 Lance trailer that is new to me. 8,000 lb gvw and 800 lb tongue weight. I'm considering a new truck and favor going to the 6.4 gas Laramie with either a 373 or 410 axle and 4WD. It's difficult to figure out the RAM factory forum on what you can get on a particular truck. I would like more fuel storage and heard that you can order an optional 50 gallon tank but have not seen that. And that might not be available on a crew cab short bed. So it looks like a 2500 would be best but I also do not know what suspension comes with those. I see reference to coil springs and built in weight leveling or after market air bags.

Questions being, are there stock configurations that would be best for towing my trailer but not pound the heck out of me when unloaded? I already have a weight distribution hitch and my 2004 diesel pulled the trailer up grades well and could use it for local Nat'l Park trips but I would be concerned about anything too far away from home base. It's hard to find reliable diesel mechanics and dealers are very high priced and just throw parts at everything. Would appreciate the forums advice and experience. I do not want a newer diesel due to not driving it enough to keep the check engine lights at bay.
 

06 Dodge

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Being a newbe I don't know if this question has been asked quite this way but here goes. I have a 2004.5 Dodge diesel that has been a great truck but little things are starting to happen. I'm a shade tree mechanic but now older than dirt and cannot imagine working alongside a hwy any more. So I also have a 2021 Lance trailer that is new to me. 8,000 lb gvw and 800 lb tongue weight. I'm considering a new truck and favor going to the 6.4 gas Laramie with either a 373 or 410 axle and 4WD. It's difficult to figure out the RAM factory forum on what you can get on a particular truck. I would like more fuel storage and heard that you can order an optional 50 gallon tank but have not seen that. And that might not be available on a crew cab short bed. So it looks like a 2500 would be best but I also do not know what suspension comes with those. I see reference to coil springs and built in weight leveling or after market air bags.

Questions being, are there stock configurations that would be best for towing my trailer but not pound the heck out of me when unloaded? I already have a weight distribution hitch and my 2004 diesel pulled the trailer up grades well and could use it for local Nat'l Park trips but I would be concerned about anything too far away from home base. It's hard to find reliable diesel mechanics and dealers are very high priced and just throw parts at everything. Would appreciate the forums advice and experience. I do not want a newer diesel due to not driving it enough to keep the check engine lights at bay.
In my 2022 CTD it sees many 1.5-2.5 mile one way trips a few times a week (I lock out 5 & 6 gear below 50 mph to keep rpms up) to date I have had no CEL popping up, but then I'm smart enough to take it every 10-14 days on a 20-30 minute drive (at speeds at or above 50 MPH) to keep the DPF happy...
 

jejb

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Being a newbe I don't know if this question has been asked quite this way but here goes. I have a 2004.5 Dodge diesel that has been a great truck but little things are starting to happen. I'm a shade tree mechanic but now older than dirt and cannot imagine working alongside a hwy any more. So I also have a 2021 Lance trailer that is new to me. 8,000 lb gvw and 800 lb tongue weight. I'm considering a new truck and favor going to the 6.4 gas Laramie with either a 373 or 410 axle and 4WD. It's difficult to figure out the RAM factory forum on what you can get on a particular truck. I would like more fuel storage and heard that you can order an optional 50 gallon tank but have not seen that. And that might not be available on a crew cab short bed.
Correct, you need to get the 8' box to get the bigger tank. There are aftermarket tanks for the short boxes, but there are issues with them. Expensive, fuel gauge is no longer accurate, etc.
So it looks like a 2500 would be best but I also do not know what suspension comes with those. I see reference to coil springs and built in weight leveling or after market air bags.
Coil springs in the 2500's. Or you can get them with factory air suspension, which is really a nice option.
Questions being, are there stock configurations that would be best for towing my trailer but not pound the heck out of me when unloaded? I already have a weight distribution hitch and my 2004 diesel pulled the trailer up grades well and could use it for local Nat'l Park trips but I would be concerned about anything too far away from home base. It's hard to find reliable diesel mechanics and dealers are very high priced and just throw parts at everything. Would appreciate the forums advice and experience. I do not want a newer diesel due to not driving it enough to keep the check engine lights at bay.
6.4 would probably work well for you, given the trailer weight. Diesels are magic in the hills and mountains, but I understand your concerns.
 

yrraljguthrie

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And I've seen lots of 3500 that didn't have any problem parking. Mostly because I had to go around the tail sticking out in the driveway. Ditto a 2500 crew with an 8 ft. bed. Although plenty of drivers do park their trucks in crowded parking lots, none of them are designed for that long a vehicle. Some states allow more narrow parking slots than others, and the duallys don't fit well.

Just on the weight of the vehicle, the mpg is going to change between 1500, 2500, and 3500. Probably about 6-8 mpg difference between 1500 and 3500. About 5,000 lbs for a 1500, 7,000 lbs for a 2500, and 10,000 or 11,000 lbs. for the 3500. The diesel will cost you more. Several thousand more to buy, it gets better mileage but the cost of diesel will more than cancel that. For the first 150,000 miles, the gasoline is more capable. It will accelerate faster and pull the same weight. The diesel will make more noise. I'm one of those strange folk who would cancel the sound of my v8 if I could. I don't want the sound of the v8 or a lawnmower engine in some SUVs. Except for leftover mores created by the comparison between diesel and gasoline engines in the 1950s-1980s there is just not much justification for buying a diesel pickup truck. I'll get disagreement on this, but look at the profiles of the posters. If they have a picture, how old are they? Perhaps grew up 1950s-1980s. I'm 77 myself and I have heard just about any comparison that can be made. The bottom line you'll spend, by my estimation, which is just that, an estimation, it'll cost $1.00 per mile more for the diesel than gasoline at least for the first 4-5 years. And if you keep it longer it'll never recoup that amount. A 2500 over a 1500 has marginal reasons to buy, similarily equipped there is not much difference between towing. Don't scream at me there, look it up. A 3500 needs a valid and continued use to justify. I can't think of nor have I heard of a valid reason to put a diesel in a 1500 or 2500. it might be useful in a 3500. it will cost a good deal more. Parking a trailer in a fancy park or posting on this forum it will be nice to brag about the truck you have, but I'm not paying money to brag. :)
 

Mike Wenrich

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Thanks for the replies. BTW, I did own a 2014 RAM 3500 diesel for a few years. Had a camper on it. But I had DEF issues and upstream nox sensors failures. It was a powerful truck and pleasant to drive but over time I had 10 recalls and/or reboots along with the engine issues. I live a long way from a dealer and those trips burned a day of waiting in dealerships. Besides that, I had the dreaded dead pedal issue where you had to anticipate throttle delay to pass vehicles. Not all diesels had that but just my bad luck to get a lemon. My 04.5 has been a great truck and I will keep it for a "ranch" truck.

So looks like the coil spring an the 2500 might make it a better riding truck empty and the 373 vs 410 gears might not make much difference. I reside in the mountains so maybe the 410 would be a better choice. Right now there are not many or any 2023 trucks on the lot that have a 6.4 in a 2500 Laramie. All diesels that I see here in Ca. But maybe the 2024's will be out soon.
 

62Blazer

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Being a newbe I don't know if this question has been asked quite this way but here goes. I have a 2004.5 Dodge diesel that has been a great truck but little things are starting to happen. I'm a shade tree mechanic but now older than dirt and cannot imagine working alongside a hwy any more. So I also have a 2021 Lance trailer that is new to me. 8,000 lb gvw and 800 lb tongue weight. I'm considering a new truck and favor going to the 6.4 gas Laramie with either a 373 or 410 axle and 4WD. It's difficult to figure out the RAM factory forum on what you can get on a particular truck. I would like more fuel storage and heard that you can order an optional 50 gallon tank but have not seen that. And that might not be available on a crew cab short bed. So it looks like a 2500 would be best but I also do not know what suspension comes with those. I see reference to coil springs and built in weight leveling or after market air bags.

Questions being, are there stock configurations that would be best for towing my trailer but not pound the heck out of me when unloaded? I already have a weight distribution hitch and my 2004 diesel pulled the trailer up grades well and could use it for local Nat'l Park trips but I would be concerned about anything too far away from home base. It's hard to find reliable diesel mechanics and dealers are very high priced and just throw parts at everything. Would appreciate the forums advice and experience. I do not want a newer diesel due to not driving it enough to keep the check engine lights at bay.
First thing I will say is that 8,000 lbs. is not that big of a trailer and well within the capability of any newer 2500 truck. The basic Ram 2500 4x4 crewcab shortbed with the 6.4 is rated for almost 15,000 towing (the Power Wagon is about the only model with significantly lower tow rating). I would definitely get the 4.10 gears if you could.....with that said I probably wouldn't pass up a really good deal on a truck with 3.73 as it would still work fine. Just about any 2500 will ride the same, and there is really not much difference in any of the options. The only significant option is to get air suspension or not. The larger fuel tank is only optional in the longbeds.
 

jejb

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Just on the weight of the vehicle, the mpg is going to change between 1500, 2500, and 3500. Probably about 6-8 mpg difference between 1500 and 3500. About 5,000 lbs for a 1500, 7,000 lbs for a 2500, and 10,000 or 11,000 lbs. for the 3500.
The curb weight between equally equipped 2500's and 3500's it going to be pretty minor. Few hundred pounds at the very most. In the case of my 22 2500, it is 50lbs lighter than the same truck in a 3500.

The diesel will cost you more. Several thousand more to buy, it gets better mileage but the cost of diesel will more than cancel that.
The Cummins is an expensive option. But in my experience with diesel and gas hd trucks over the years, come sale/trade in time, that diesel motor (Ford, GM or Ram) will return very close to 100% of it's original sale price. That option holds its value better than rest of the truck, by far. To confirm, run the numbers on gas vs diesel in some older Ram's on KBB type sites. And remember to factor in the price of the diesel option in the year you are checking on, not current option price, as that goes up over time.

As far as mpg cost, with current pricing in my area, with diesel being less than 10% higher than regular, I'm way ahead of a gas motor in that cost. When diesel was $1 or more a gallon than regular, it was closer to break even.
For the first 150,000 miles, the gasoline is more capable. It will accelerate faster and pull the same weight.
I disagree. The diesel is always more capable when it comes to towing. In a 2500, because of the government mandated 10K cap, the gas truck is rated for more GVWR (because the motor is lighter), but the Cummins is rated to haul more weight. For bigger loads and big hills/mountains, the diesel will out pull it with ease. Torque is what pulls trailers and the Cummins has about twice the torque the Hemi does.

As far as acceleration, I have no idea and don't care. I don't buy an HD truck for that reason. The Cummins has no problem getting up to speed, with or without a trailer.
The diesel will make more noise. I'm one of those strange folk who would cancel the sound of my v8 if I could. I don't want the sound of the v8 or a lawnmower engine in some SUVs.
I don't hear the diesel in my Ltd Longhorn while in the truck. I believe there is some noise cancelling tech at work. But even standing outside, it is FAR quieter than the diesel motors of old. And no more diesel stink or smoke. Diesels have come a long ways.
Except for leftover mores created by the comparison between diesel and gasoline engines in the 1950s-1980s there is just not much justification for buying a diesel pickup truck.
Maybe not for you. They make perfect sense for a lot of folks though. Heck, you can't even order a 2500 Ltd or Ltd Longhorn anymore with the gas motor. Ram killed it off for lack for sales.
I'll get disagreement on this, but look at the profiles of the posters. If they have a picture, how old are they? Perhaps grew up 1950s-1980s. I'm 77 myself and I have heard just about any comparison that can be made. The bottom line you'll spend, by my estimation, which is just that, an estimation, it'll cost $1.00 per mile more for the diesel than gasoline at least for the first 4-5 years. And if you keep it longer it'll never recoup that amount.
Please show us your math here. The only way you could be close to that is if you are treating the cost of the diesel option as a total loss. As I said above, that is far from the truth. If you keep a truck until it's junk, you will have reaped the benefit of better mileage all of its life and the far better towing experience.
A 2500 over a 1500 has marginal reasons to buy, similarily equipped there is not much difference between towing. Don't scream at me there, look it up.
I think you need to look it up. A 2500 is rated to pull far more weight.
A 3500 needs a valid and continued use to justify. I can't think of nor have I heard of a valid reason to put a diesel in a 1500 or 2500. it might be useful in a 3500. it will cost a good deal more.
And it will net a good deal more at trade/sale. Again, I've owned both. Pulling trailers through our Ozark Mts or my trips to the Rocky Mts each year will show in a dramatic way why diesels can make a lot of sense in 2500's. The difference is literally night and day, for both going up and coming down grades.

And some of the baby diesels in 1/2 ton's get a lot of love. The baby Duramax can get above 30mpg and still pull a good load. Seems like a worthy option to me.
Parking a trailer in a fancy park or posting on this forum it will be nice to brag about the truck you have, but I'm not paying money to brag. :)
Nothing wrong with going gas, or whatever you want. But much of what you are saying above is just plain wrong in many cases.
 

Mike Wenrich

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Re: the air suspension option, I have read in the past that the option is not a good one for hauling campers. In that is constantly fights the side to side sway of the top heavy camper weight. If I use a weight distributing hitch, what would be the advantage of air suspension? Or when not towing? Is it like adding air bags?
 

jejb

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They are self leveling air bags. So you never have to break out a compressor to control them. In a 3500, they don't really give you a softer ride unloaded, except that the leaf springs are different. They also give you an alternate ride height you can haul at and another "bed lowering mode" to drop another 2" (can't drive in that mode). In the 3500, you need at least 600lbs of load in the bed for those functions to work. No load needed for them to work in a 2500.

I really like the factory air suspension in my 22 2500. Had it in my 18 2500 too. I think it's a great feature, but I know not everyone thinks so.
 

ppine

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It costs about one dollar to run a diesel or a gas engine powered truck.
It has nothing to do with bragging.
 

curry7500

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Currently towing a 4500lb camper with a mid size rated for 7k towing (gas not diesel) at about 85% of gross combined vehicle weight, 9mpg, considering a Ram 1500 or 2500 to see if it might make a difference (thinking 2500 due to the higher max towing to future proof going from a 25ft to possibly 32 or 36 ft closer to 8 to 12k weight camper in the future).

Gas / Diesel tow better from a mileage standpoint?
Would a 2500 offer better mileage (been reading the forums and everyone seems somewhere between 9 to 13/14 mpg regardless of gas/diesel), any advice appreciated.

Edit - towing from Ohio through all the national parks including alaska (ok, not hawaii) but in general yearly 2 week trailer camping trips with the kiddo, plus various weekend (Apr - Oct) camping trips on the east coast. Not terribly dissapointed with what I have was just trying to figure I want a larger truck again anyway and starting to think now / 5 years from now closer to retirement age if it's worth the 2 to 3 mpg and easier time towing over the next 5 years.

Thank you
With my 2500 diesel towing around 5 to 5.5 tons with gross weight being around 22000 I get 13.5 miles per gal pulling in the hills of Wv and Ky
 

quickster2

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They are self leveling air bags. So you never have to break out a compressor to control them. In a 3500, they don't really give you a softer ride unloaded, except that the leaf springs are different. They also give you an alternate ride height you can haul at and another "bed lowering mode" to drop another 2" (can't drive in that mode). In the 3500, you need at least 600lbs of load in the bed for those functions to work. No load needed for them to work in a 2500.

I really like the factory air suspension in my 22 2500. Had it in my 18 2500 too. I think it's a great feature, but I know not everyone thinks so.
I would never have a HD without the rear bags. Great for my truck camper and my 25' Gooseneck towing my tractor (obviously not at the same time) .
 

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