Towing without in tow haul mode.

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Swampmule

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I am towing a few zero turns (under 5k) with my 2018 2500 6.4 hemi. My question is can I use the +/- to keep it out of 6th and not use the tow haul with out burning anything up. I noticed in the book that 6th does have a torque converter and the 5th and 6th was considered overdrive. I much prefer the way it shifts when not in tow mode and my gas mileage is about 3 more MPG. But it's not worth it if 5th has some kind of torque converter that can burn up like the old trucks. From what I can tell 5th is as high as it shifts in tow mode anyway. I could just set the shifter to 5th so it doesn't go into 6th. I was kind of hoping some one on here would KNOW how the transmission on my particular truck works. I also noticed in the owners manual that 4th is direct drive which I could use for my local towing (under 55mph) if 5th is not a good idea. Once again as long as that doesn't put unnecessary stress anything.

Like I said the tow haul seams like over kill for where I'm located and for what I'm towing. But my Grandad did burn up his 89 Dakota from not turning off over drive back in the day. I know alot has changed over the years. I just don't want to make the same stupid mistake. Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.
 

turkeybird56

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Personal Thought: When I tow NE weight, I use Tow/Haul period. Not care about fuel mileage, etc. When I tow, it is a stock trailer with hay, something over 6000 lbs,., and since I got a 1500 with 5.7L, if lucky I get 13 mpg, hee hee.

Someone with that year 6.4L would have to otherwise chime in as I have the 8 speed HP75 trans
 
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Swampmule

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I understand it just makes me cringe when I hit for 4 and 5k RPM just to dive a mile down the road.
 

dhay13

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My son has a 2018 with the 6.4 and just towed his 8000lb camper 1500 miles. When he was out on the open highway he turned tow/haul off and manually put it in 5th but I'd think on the open highway it probably wouldn't have mattered either way?
 

csuder99

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There are quite a few differences between the 3 speed+overdrive transmissions of the olden days and what's in trucks today. My 2001 2500 doesn't have anything called tow/haul, just overdrive off. The idea with overdrive off was that under heavy load you want to prevent the transmission from frequently going in and out of overdrive which burns up the overdrive clutch.
In contrast on modern vehicles tow/haul modifies the shift points so the engine runs longer in its power band. In some way that disables the overdrive gears although they still engage when going fast enough ;)
So if there is no obvious frequent shifting at cruising speed running without tow/haul is fine. With my 2014 1500 3.6/3.55 I did not use tow haul with a 1400 lbs trailer but do use it with my current ~6000 lbs travel trailer. With the old 2500 I don't use it pulling a 3000 lbs trailer but did when towing 7000 lbs of trailer with a ditch witch on it.

HTH
 

kurek

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But it's not worth it if 5th has some kind of torque converter that can burn up like the old trucks......... I also noticed in the owners manual that 4th is direct drive which I could use for my local towing (under 55mph) if 5th is not a good idea. Once again as long as that doesn't put unnecessary stress anything.


The torque converter exists in all gears, it's located between the transmission and engine, and it's a necessary part of every conventional automatic drivetrain. The modern (ish.. it's like 30+ years old at this point..) innovation is whether the torque converter locks up during steady cruising conditions to reduce heat and save fuel - since the lock-up takes the form of a friction clutch it can generate heat and wear of its own if it's allowed to constantly engage and disengage.

Overdrive is... just another gear. There's nothing special about overdrive in a modern transmission it just happens to be when the ratio is such that the output shaft spins faster than the input shaft. This does necessitate higher clamping effort on the part of the clutches which govern shifting (for a given torque output) but that only becomes a factor in durability if it's constantly shifting in and out of those gear ratios.

The factor that does warrant some attention is the line pressure that is permitted in the transmission - higher line pressure results in firmer shift feel and more drivetrain losses (reduced MPG) but produces less slippage under high torque conditions like towing. I don't have proprietary insight into Ram's transmissions in particular but it would be extremely unusual for them to not increase line pressure for tow/haul mode (to reduce wear and heat while towing) and decrease it (to improve shift comfort/NVH and MPG) with tow/haul disengaged.

For that reason I would always engage tow/haul while towing as I consider it very likely that wear on the transmission will be reduced.
 

maverickmk

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For that reason I would always engage tow/haul while towing as I consider it very likely that wear on the transmission will be reduced.
This is good advice. These transmissions are fragile enough, why gamble on it going south sooner than need to be?
 

2003F350

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So I have a 2500 lb boat and a 7,000 lb camper. Both towed with my PW.

I use tow/haul for both if I'm going on the road, though I probably don't NEED it with the boat. It honestly doesn't seem to make much difference except for holding the gears a bit longer with the boat. I've never tried running without it with the camper.

That said, a 6.4/auto in tow/haul WILL go into overdrive/6th gear at speeds of 55+.

However, for times when I'm just moving it down the road? eh, I will probably not get out of 2nd gear nor over 25 mph. I don't use it then.
 

1stindoor

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I've always used it when towing my bass boat, but then again, I'm usually driving about an hour down the highway at 50+ MPH
 

PaulTGarrett

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After lunching a tranny in my '98 RAM while pulling a trailer down the road, I always use the tow/haul mode... There wasn't enough left intact inside the tranny case to salvage. The entire thing was a write-off... I took it to a performance shop, not a dealer, and they said flat out without question that the cause of the damage was not using tow/haul and burning out the overdrive, which put shrapnel though the tranny when it seized and came unglued. Repair total was $4100 out the door and almost a week of downtime. Plus round trip airfare to fly home, then fly back when the truck was fixed.

Moral of the story? Save yourself a few thousand and push the little button. Damn sight less expensive than a few gallons of gas.

By the way, we aren't the only one with the tow/haul self-destruct mode... The Ford E4OD will also eat itself from the inside out when the overdrive burns out...
 

Dan Lockwood

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You'd better get your truck to the dealer ASAP or get a new calculator because something is gravely wrong with one of the two.

I may not be "reading" your comment correctly... :), but I believe he's saying he gets 3 mpg MORE when he's not in tow mode.

I much prefer the way it shifts when not in tow mode and my gas mileage is about 3 more MPG.

I don't think he meant that he gets 3 mpg. I know you jest!
 

mtofell

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I may not be "reading" your comment correctly... :), but I believe he's saying he gets 3 mpg MORE when he's not in tow mode.



I don't think he meant that he gets 3 mpg. I know you jest!

Yep.... 3mpg with the click of a button? I need one of those buttons :)

It's just annoying when people come in here looking for help and in the process throw out total BS to try and bolster their case. As if we're all so stupid we can't see right through it. I don't know what it is about MPGs and internet forums but everyone suddenly turns into politicians.
 

BWL

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He said gains 3 mpg when not in tow mode. Not using overdrive and mds off would definitely lower the mileage. That said nothing lowers mileage more than towing so has he done any reasonably long term calculation in both modes while towing since wind, hills and road conditions effect that as well. Back to the original question with using tow haul. Use it when towing. The firmer shifts lessen the clutch wear and not using overdrive is built in. When towing the mds will rarely kick in anyways and since you're locking it out of od by downshifting you might as well use tow haul.
 

Toddbigboytruck

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He said gains 3 mpg when not in tow mode. Not using overdrive and mds off would definitely lower the mileage. That said nothing lowers mileage more than towing so has he done any reasonably long term calculation in both modes while towing since wind, hills and road conditions effect that as well. Back to the original question with using tow haul. Use it when towing. The firmer shifts lessen the clutch wear and not using overdrive is built in. When towing the mds will rarely kick in anyways and since you're locking it out of od by downshifting you might as well use tow haul.
I will have to try that I am towing my 5500# from Canada to the keys in December every mpg will count
 

JD Mark

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T/H changes shift points, not increases RPMs that would result in lower MPG.
 

Gr8bawana

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He said gains 3 mpg when not in tow mode. Not using overdrive and mds off would definitely lower the mileage. That said nothing lowers mileage more than towing so has he done any reasonably long term calculation in both modes while towing since wind, hills and road conditions effect that as well. Back to the original question with using tow haul. Use it when towing. The firmer shifts lessen the clutch wear and not using overdrive is built in. When towing the mds will rarely kick in anyways and since you're locking it out of od by downshifting you might as well use tow haul.
He also gets an extra 2 mpg when the truck is washed and has a fresh oil. :manos:
 

marks146

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I am towing a few zero turns (under 5k) with my 2018 2500 6.4 hemi. My question is can I use the +/- to keep it out of 6th and not use the tow haul with out burning anything up. ...

Like I said the tow haul seams like over kill for where I'm located and for what I'm towing. But my Grandad did burn up his 89 Dakota from not turning off over drive back in the day. I know alot has changed over the years. I just don't want to make the same stupid mistake. Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

When I tow my 7000# camper I often "lock" it in 4th with the +/- button to keep the rev's and the torque up. I don't think it matters if you drop yours into 5th to stop the torque converter from locking up. In overdrive the 6.5 does become "gutless". You don't HAVE to use the tow/haul mode, but it should be helpful regardless of your terrain.
 

JD Mark

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When I tow my 7000# camper I often "lock" it in 4th with the +/- button to keep the rev's and the torque up. I don't think it matters if you drop yours into 5th to stop the torque converter from locking up. In overdrive the 6.5 does become "gutless". You don't HAVE to use the tow/haul mode, but it should be helpful regardless of your terrain.

This just goes to show the gearing is screwed up and a 6 speed transmission is stupid.
 

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