Toyota Slams California’s EV Mandate As ‘Impossible’, Pushes For A National Rule

[Dusty]

California's Governor is in Washington DC right now
He wants Biden to Block Trump from blocking the EV Mandates
He will do anything to be President after Trump

How can the sitting US president "block" the next president from changing the EV mandates?

If the EV mandate was passed by Congress, no president can legally change the outcome. If, however, the mandate is the result of arbitrary EPA rule change dictum, a president can most certainly cancel the rule. Rule changes must be made by Congress.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 122426 miles.

 

[GTyankee]

Any State can write a State Rule, but no State can over ride a Federal Rule

The Rule about the YEAR that only Electric Vehicles can be built in the USA, which i think may be 2035 & 2050, went through Congress, both Houses & was Signed by the President. Was sent to the EPA & now Only the EPA can make changes.

Some things can not be Forced upon vehicle buyers
IF automobile buyers will not spend their money, the FEDS can not force them to buy.

In that case, the set dates would have to be moved further into the Future

That is what is beginning to happen over in Europe.

Even Hybrids are not selling, like the Gov't had hoped.

Just keep an eye on what Toyota & Ford do

 

[Docwagon1776]

The Rule about the YEAR that only Electric Vehicles can be built in the USA, which i think may be 2035 & 2050, went through Congress, both Houses & was Signed by the President. Was sent to the EPA & now Only the EPA can make changes.

There is no EV mandate at the federal level for any year. There is no prohibition on manufacturing ICE vehicles for any year. Nor is that how rules making works in terms of what can be done afterward.

The closest such rule is specific to procurement for the federal government, which would mandate zero emissions vehicles be purchased *for federal use* aside from exempted entities like the military.

 

[GTyankee]

I can not find the Rule set by the EPA
but

The Environmental Protection Agency somewhat eased CO2 emissions requirements through 2030 from its proposal last spring while maintaining essentially the same end-point for 2032. That means gas-powered cars can make up no more than 30% of auto sales by 2032.
NOTE:

• Energy and Commerce Republicans are leading to stop the Biden administration’s radical EV agenda, preserve people’s vehicle choice, and ensure America—not China—is leading. In May 2023, Chair Rodgers and more than 150 House Republicans sent a letter to the administration urging it to abandon its efforts to mandate EVs.
• In December 2023, the House of Representatives passed the Choice in Automobile Retail Sales (CARS) Act, led by Rep. Tim Walberg (R-MI), to stop President Biden’s agenda to force Americans to drive electric vehicles by a bipartisan vote of 221-197.

By the way,
a little side note

• Tim Walberg (R-MI) will take over the EPA in February

Full Article:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/joe-biden-electric-vehicle-mandate-gas-powered-cars-2032-epa-c2a72414?st=rap9rqfrz7mxkzq&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

 

[JHoward]

I hope everyone understands this started back in the late '60's when the SMOG programs started in CA.
Everyone said, it won't go beyond CA......but over the years it has.
It's a more about money than the environment!

Absolutely ...

 

[Docwagon1776]

I can not find the Rule set by the EPA

It's because it doesn't exist. There are tightening emissions standards, but even that can has been kicked down the road. It'll continue to get kicked because nobody is going to crash the economy. Deadlines get passed and pushed back when they aren't realistic constantly. Are you familiar with Real ID? It was mandated in *2008*. The current dealine is in 2025, 17 years of constantly pushed back deadlines. It took 23 years for leaded gasoline to be completely phased out in the US. How's that reduction in US fossil fuel extraction going? Ah, another record year? Right.

Don't confuse a partisan editorial with news nor believe any politician is actually trying to do what they say they are trying to do. Only watch where money flows.

 

[GTyankee]

ahhhh, money

 

[Docwagon1776]

ahhhh, money

Funny thing: The *only* investment I've lost money in this year is OXY, an oil company but one that's making inroads into direct air carbon capture. They then use that CO2 by pumping it underground to force previously unrecoverable oil up to recoverable depths, sequestering the CO2 in the process. It's still in the build out phases right now and oil is still too cheap for their profits to bounce right now...but long term I think money is going to flow there. Think of it like "guilt free oil" for the political elite to say they've done something while also not crashing the economy that relies on cheap energy.

Or I'm wrong and I'll lose even more there, but that's how I see the money flow over the next decade or so.

 

[GTyankee]

At one time, i lived in the Imperial Valley of California

When i lived there, they had Thermal Energy power plants.
It started with Mud Bubbling out of the ground.
Now they force water down into the ground, to force Steam Out
Those plants are still functioning, and now there are more of them.

Just a few miles away from there, GM & Stellantis, & a couple of private companies, are trying to find ways to mine LITHIUM out of the ground.
Huge Lithium deposit, but they can't use the water that is nearby.
They will need to build a long Canal, so they can get water from the Sea of Cortez

 

[BossHogg]

California will eventually regulate itself out of existence but I think the people of the state will put their foot down before that happens.

 

[Dusty]

To say there is a direct Federal ban on petroleum vehicles or a "EV mandate" is incorrect. But never doubt that politicians can't achieve the end-goal.

The latest EPA regulation requires ZERO emissions vehicles by the year 2030, starting in 2027. That's going to be an almost impossible mission for ICE as we know them today, and hence a practical end to many (if not most) ICE vehicles.

Is Biden Banning Gas Cars in the U.S.? Not … Exactly

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 122499 miles.

 

[nlambert182]

The military (at least the Army) is absolutely tracking towards the ZEV goal right now. Executive orders 14008 and 14057 direct it. There's no ban, but there is absolutely a mandate in place.

From the Army Climate Strategy:

https://www.army.mil/e2/downloads/rv7/about/2022_army_climate_strategy.pdf

From the Army Climate Strategy Implementation Plan:

https://www.army.mil/e2/downloads/rv7/about/2022_Army_Climate_Strategy_Implementation_Plan_FY23-FY27.pdf

The USAF also has a similar plan called the Air Force Climate Action Plan. The Navy has the Climate 2030 plan.

 

[Docwagon1776]

The latest EPA regulation requires ZERO emissions vehicles by the year 2030, starting in 2027.

The article you linked to says the goal is 50% ZEV by 2030, and that's already been walked back. Joint Resolution 136 passed the House and is in committee with the Senate. Likely wanted to wait until after the election to vote so they could stand on their environmental laurels ahead of the vote, then do what's right for the economy and let the greenie vote forget about it by the time the next election rolls around.

In short, it's mostly a marketing game. I think *eventually* we'll have some sort of real EV mandate but it'll be much further down the road than the media and politicians will breathlessly tell you.

 

[nlambert182]

It's for sure marketing and fattening some of these energy company's wallets. Johnson Controls has a 50 year single source contract with the Pentagon to upgrade their infrastructure. More efficient HVACs, control systems, electric charging stations, etc.....

Other's that also have their hands out right now.... Duke Energy, Southern Company, DTE Energy, Dominion Energy all have lobbyists who are pressing the ZEV requirements.

 

[GTyankee]

Electric Power companies are enjoying KOBE Steak & we are getting the fat & grizzle,
might as well call it Taco Bell.

Our Power company asked the public for a rate increase & were turned down, so they went to the PUC & insisted that EV facilities will not function, IF they don't get a raise in prices.
Of course, the PUC gave it to them, without hesitation

 

[Bigskyroadglide]

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/11/14/trumps-transition-team-aims-to-kill-biden-ev-tax-credit-reuters.html?__source=androidappshare

 

[Docwagon1776]

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/11/14/trumps-transition-team-aims-to-kill-biden-ev-tax-credit-reuters.html?__source=androidappshare

Crony capitalism at it's finest. Tesla was built on subsidies like this tax credit and now Elon needs the bridge burned behind him to keep Rivian and others from growing into his space. Tesla's valuation is nuts unless you think about how much gov't he's bought now.

 

[nlambert182]

Everyone's doing it....

Skydio is lobbying for the legislation to ban DJI and similar Chinese drones from Gov/Civ use now that they've launched their non-Chinese versions.

There are some good reasons behind it at the surface level, but the real reason is that they charge 10x the price for a drone that has 1/2 the performance. They've won a few contracts and are trying to push others out of the space.

Instead of working on cheaper ways to bring the technology forward the fastest solution is ban everyone else so you're forced into paying their prices.