Traction control

[hal9000]

A few years back, my brother (who has a '15 power wagon) commented that a lot of owners he talked to lamented how intrusive the Ram traction control is (sounded like it pulls power out during wherlspin??) and were looking for ways to modify it to improve performance in general. I never gave it much thought till now, but I'm curious what if anything people are doing in terms of traction control mods or upgrades?

Thanks!

 

[kurek]

Your 2012 I don't think has BLD, pretty sure that was a '13+ feature. (Not 100% sure on that, it was either '11 or '13)

Other than BLD your vehicle has two other traction control profiles. One is stability control which has the aim of keeping your tires on the ground and keeping your direction of travel the same as the direction you're pointing the steering wheel. Stability control can reduce throttle and can individually brake wheels to help prevent rollovers and prevent spinning out of control. Stability control uses a software model to determine when the truck could roll over or go completely out of driver control and works to catch it before that happens. It uses accelerometers just like your phone or video game controllers have to figure out which direction the truck is moving, if it's rotating around any axis, as well as position sensors for the steering wheel and of course wheel speed sensors. It compares all that input and reacts when the expected and measured values are too different from each other.

It's active in 2wd and in 4H but is not active in 4L. Stability control won't stop you from doing a burnout or spinning your tires in the dirt to clear mud out of the tread, but it will try to prevent you from doing donuts in 2wd.



The second one is traction control. On pre-BLD trucks traction control's job is to reduce throttle when one or more wheels are spinning faster than other wheels. This is both to allow unskilled drivers to get the benefit of "feathering throttle" on ice and to help prevent fishtailing when going too fast around a corner under throttle or attempting to drive across a grade on muddy or icy surfaces. This one can be switched off with the button on your dashboard. When you switch that off it goes all the way off.

On trucks with BLD, that feature is always active. BLD never interferes with throttle and only works by braking individual wheels when one wheel is going significantly faster than the other wheel on the same axle. This is to provide mobility when one wheel is off the ground and to prevent peglegging on slippery surfaces like a boat ramp or an icy or muddy driveway.


This is only my opinion, but I think most of the time when somebody is complaining about traction control it's just noise coming out of their mouth. It's like all the old timers who didn't want to wear a seat belt, or who said electronic ignition was too scary and newfangled, and computers are scary and newfangled. In reality traction control and stability control and BLD are great - especially considering you can just turn off the ones that could sometimes be intrusive. If you're in 4L with the traction control button mashed you have zero nannies - BLD is not a nanny it's more like your spotter at the gym.

 

[Gear Jammer]

If you pull the ABS fuse it completely disables the traction/stability control nannies on your truck, or you could buy this kit and have it on a toggle switch.

 

[hal9000]

This is only my opinion, but I think most of the time when somebody is complaining about traction control it's just noise coming out of their mouth.

LOL, I have to agree with the spirit of that comment! Thanks for the education. Mostly I was just curious on the subject.... I know my 12 has stability control, and I think based on behavior off road it has BLD as well. But something definitely nanny's the power when it comes to burnouts. Not that I ever worry about it but I tried a time or two when I first bought the truck and it just won't... Is it safe to assume that BLD and Traction control are mutually exclusive? Can't have both on a single vehicle?

Also, would installing an LSD interfere with any of the systems?

 

[kurek]

All of the 13+ 1500's have both the BLD function and the traction control function. They're part of the same system of course it's not as if Ram put conflicting, different processors in the truck they're just different sets of conditions and outputs.

I don't think BLD was on Ram trucks before 2013 but I'm only basing that on reading "new features" lists, like here . Jeep was putting it on some vehicles before 2007 notably Jeep Compass and Patriot crossovers have always had it (and the Mitsubishi Outlander they're based on has it..) .

Something noteworthy in the feature lists referring to traction control is this line:

"When a disagreement exists between the throttle and the brake, the engine controller cuts power."

That might explain why you're having difficulty doing deliberate burnouts I'm guessing that Ram's formal position on those is you don't need to do a burnout, it's not a "normal" function of driving or getting unstuck. Obviously we'd all rather make those choices for ourselves or at least have a thanks for the advice but I'll take it from here button

LSD plays along very nicely with traction control and BLD. Neither the LSD nor BLD "knows" each other is there nor needs to know the other is there, but they feed back positively on each other. That's why 2013+ trucks equipped with the factory anti-spin differential don't even have preload anymore they don't need it with BLD supplying the initial load. That saves wear on the LSD clutches and maybe a fraction of fuel too.

 

[IDSandman]

If you pull the ABS fuse it completely disables the traction/stability control nannies on your truck, or you could buy this kit and have it on a toggle switch.

That’s awesome, thanks for the link. I’ve been mulling how to build a similar system as I’m very electronics versed.
I hate the traction control BLD system in my ‘18 Ram. I actually know how to drive and have a built in traction control device in my feet. Don’t need or want a computer to do it. I’ll leave it on for the highway but once in town, wheeling or in the country it will come off. I really enjoy drifting corners and such in winter driving conditions.

 

[kurek]

you can't simulate BLD with your feet unless you're in the mood to install cutting brakes like a tractor plus I bet you know how to operate a manual choke & don't mind letting a computer figure out cold starts

 

[67440dodge]

That one good thing about Gen 5, toggle switch already there to disable traction control.. gonna miss that..

 

[IDSandman]

you can't simulate BLD with your feet unless you're in the mood to install cutting brakes like a tractor plus I bet you know how to operate a manual choke & don't mind letting a computer figure out cold starts

If you’re not able to operate your vehicle in winter type conditions then you probably need the computer to do it for you. For me, it’s a hindrance, I prefer to use my winter performance driving training to operate my vehicle.

 

[LouM]

This is only my opinion, but I think most of the time when somebody is complaining about traction control it's just noise coming out of their mouth. It's like all the old timers who didn't want to wear a seat belt, or who said electronic ignition was too scary and newfangled, and computers are scary and newfangled. In reality traction control and stability control and BLD are great - especially considering you can just turn off the ones that could sometimes be intrusive. If you're in 4L with the traction control button mashed you have zero nannies - BLD is not a nanny it's more like your spotter at the gym.

Well it certainly is your opinion, cause it sure as heck is not mine.
I haven't had my 19 in a situation to see how bad it shuts down,
but my 15 got itself stuck more then once because of the damned traction control.
Nothing like chewing up a 26% grade on packed snow or ice and all of a sudden the f ing
computor shuts the engine power down. (and almost made it 10 feet to go and the worst is over)
Now you have to back down an 1/8th of a mile get around a curve and then back just a bit more
for a second run up it. And if you can't get a good start on that little straight back up more
and around a sharper turn and down more hill to the bottom to get a good start.
Nothing like a 1/4 mile steep uphill 22% to 26% slope driveway with a S turn in it to see your vehicles
ability in the winter snow and ice and the differences in tire abilities.

 

[67440dodge]

Smoke em if you got em...

 

[2012RAM1500RT]

Speaking of technology, Soooooooooooo glad I grew up when I did and was able to learn how to drive without an opinion or computer to drive for me. All this tech is sucking the life out of us, then we have idiots who sleep while their vehicle (tesla) drives for them. Didn't work to well for some. I watch while some of these geniuses with their little yellow light on their outside door mirror that goes off when they pass me and they instantly get over in front of me because their little technology gadget says they are in the clear. So much for when that crap fails and my vehicle gives them the pit maneuver because their car drives for them. I'll call a wrecker for them!

 

[kurek]

Heh, another thread where I'm just not having the problems some other folks seem to be having.

No time for learning how to drive in winter I'm way too busy adjusting my distributor points and condenser while dialing into the internet with an abacus tied to a string with a cup on the other end.

 

[67440dodge]

Heh, another thread where I'm just not having the problems some other folks seem to be having.

No time for learning how to drive in winter I'm way too busy adjusting my distributor points and condenser while dialing into the internet with an abacus tied to a string with a cup on the other end.

Just me, but I'd like to charge a couple condensors, and toss em at the engineers who invented TSC/STM/TPMS/Electronic Throttle control... and of all of em EPAS!!!

 

[Different Drummer]

Well it certainly is your opinion, cause it sure as heck is not mine.
I haven't had my 19 in a situation to see how bad it shuts down,
but my 15 got itself stuck more then once because of the damned traction control.
Nothing like chewing up a 26% grade on packed snow or ice and all of a sudden the f ing
computor shuts the engine power down. (and almost made it 10 feet to go and the worst is over)
Now you have to back down an 1/8th of a mile get around a curve and then back just a bit more
for a second run up it. And if you can't get a good start on that little straight back up more
and around a sharper turn and down more hill to the bottom to get a good start.
Nothing like a 1/4 mile steep uphill 22% to 26% slope driveway with a S turn in it to see your vehicles
ability in the winter snow and ice and the differences in tire abilities.

Hey neighbor ( I am very familiar with Easton / Greenwich /Schaghticoke area ).
I think if you turn the ESC off you will eliminate the loss of power you describe while climbing your driveway. It will not disable BLD but will disable the power limiting that you describe.
I drive a 2WD with LSD. When I anticipate a difficult traction situation at slow speeds I disengage the ESC. BLD will sense the loss of traction on one wheel of the same axle and load the LSD so it performs as designed.
That turn off the River road heading up the hill toward Rt 40 can be a bear in the winter. No way to get a run at it unless you start out in the river!!
Safe travels

 

[67440dodge]

WTF is BLD?

 

[Different Drummer]

WTF is BLD?

Brake Limited Differential.
Google is your friend

 

[LouM]

Hey neighbor ( I am very familiar with Easton / Greenwich /Schaghticoke area ).
I think if you turn the ESC off you will eliminate the loss of power you describe while climbing your driveway. It will not disable BLD but will disable the power limiting that you describe.
I drive a 2WD with LSD. When I anticipate a difficult traction situation at slow speeds I disengage the ESC. BLD will sense the loss of traction on one wheel of the same axle and load the LSD so it performs as designed.
That turn off the River road heading up the hill toward Rt 40 can be a bear in the winter. No way to get a run at it unless you start out in the river!!
Safe travels

Yes, on the 15 I had to hold the button for 5 seconds and it would usually work but not always.
It is quite aggravating to have it suddenly cut power when you are almost home free.
My 15 had a limited slip, this 19 has an E-locker it may be interesting with the E-locker this winter,
the 19 is tighter in 4wd then the 15 was, the 19 will actually buck and jump a bit in the corners in 4wd.
Yes, that turn onto Waite Road does catch a lot of people in the winter up and down hill.
For a great many years I would make that corner every day, with 4wd and studded tires I never failed to make it up
or stop coming down in the morning, did come close a few times.
My hat is off to you I wouldn't drive a 2wd around here in the winter if I could avoid it, or wait for the road crews to finish.
Unless it was quite heavily loaded.
The Town road that gives me the most issues is the one on the way to the ski area,
so many skiers trying to get to a ski area that are not equipped to drive in snow and they get stuck and end up crosswise
in the road by the time you stop for them and help them get turned the rest of the way around to go back downhill
it can be quite difficult to get started again in the middle of that hill.
My old Dakota was fantastic on snowpack or ice, I had downsized to 245/75r16 tires and it could stop on many of the hills help someone out then backup the hill.

 

[67440dodge]

Brake Limited Differential.
Google is your friend

I did... and cause I'm a gamer, all gamer terms for BLD came up..

 

[kurek]

WTF is BLD?

Here is a demo of BLD on my Jeep Patriot https://youtu.be/QOcksF5kH90