Transmission pan and fluid change questions

[Wild one]

Question for you...do you happen to know, did the transmission ship to you with any fluid in the pan? Since that green document is shipped with new transmissions, is it possible that leveling the transmission upon first startup is to fill areas/ports, etc that may have been drained prior to shipping? We all know that doing a normal drain/fill yields a fair amount less fluid upon draining than the transmission actually holds (not to mention the lines to the trans cooler). Seriously, I'm trying to understand why ZF would have different instructions and my working theory is the fill instructions are different for new/replacement transmissions than for maintenance drain and fills.

They come filled,even if it came empty,the fill procedure wouldn't be any differant,as the truck has to be running when you do the final check,throw in the fact you have to let it shift into 2nd gear with the tires in the air and spinning ,so that it fills all the clutch circuits,pretty well rules out that idea. Personally i think the directions they gave you,are a generic fill procedure,as you didn't specify the transmission runs downhill in the trucks,and expecting an office flunky in Germany to know that fact is stretching things in my opinion. Like i said,take it out and run it up through several gears with your foot buried through the floor and see how it shifts,if it shifts fine,then you probably have enough fluid in it,but i know that even on here there's been a few guys who've had issues with their transmissions slipping or acting funny after doing the fill procedure with the truck level,and after they've re-done the fill procedure with the pan rail level,their issues have gone away. Owning both a car 8 speed and a truck 8 speed,i know for a fact the car will take more fluid then the truck will if both are sitting level,as the cars transmission sits virtually level to the ground when all 4 tires are on the ground,while the trucks transmission has a very noticable downward angle to it with all 4 tires on the ground,and the fill plug is closer to the back of the transmission then it is to the middle or front of the transmission

 

[Wild one]

Andymax keep us updated on what you find out though,as i'm curious what their reply will be,and i'm sure i'm not the only one curious

 

[HEMIMANN]

Now see, if you guys all had RFE trannys you wouldn't have to ponder on any of this German craziness.

 

[andymax]

Andymax keep us updated on what you find out though,as i'm curious what their reply will be,and i'm sure i'm not the only one curious

I'm currently awaiting ZF's response. I asked what their title and location are. I'm betting Michigan, and I'm also betting not an office flunky. But I'll let you know exactly what they say.

In response to your comments, the other ZF instructions say to lift the vehicle on a level hoist, which addresses your comment about running through the gears, etc.

 

[andymax]

ZF got back to me. First, the person's title is Technical Service Manager - Passenger Cars, located in Michigan. Secondly he says he's never seen that green document. He's also responsible for remanufactured transmissions and hasn't seen them there either.

I don't suppose you still have that full set of documents that arrived with the transmission? If so, and you're still curious, can you pm me some pictures and I can send them? And is that document actually green, or is the camera playing tricks?

 

[NETim]

The company is called “Engineer” . Those pliers are called “Neji-saurus RX” (model PZ59).

Didn't Godzilla fight that Nejisaurus once?

 

[Wild one]

ZF got back to me. First, the person's title is Technical Service Manager - Passenger Cars, located in Michigan. Secondly he says he's never seen that green document. He's also responsible for remanufactured transmissions and hasn't seen them there either.

I don't suppose you still have that full set of documents that arrived with the transmission? If so, and you're still curious, can you pm me some pictures and I can send them? And is that document actually green, or is the camera playing tricks?

I don't have anything left,except the green sheet,and it is green. My transmission wasn't a reman,it was a brand new transmission,that looked like it originated in Germany.I started out with a Mopar reman,and didn't accept it when it came in,as it was dirtier then the transmission in my truck,this was back in the summer of 2018.That's when i found out Mopar farms the remans out to the lowest bidder,as the reman was the grubbiest reman i'd ever ran into. Common sense would tell you,you're going to get more fluid into the cars 8 speed then the trucks 8 speed,if both vehicles are sitting level.Which makes me inclined to believe the green sheet,especially a laminated green sheet,lol

 

[BlownGP]

I'm currently awaiting ZF's response. I asked what their title and location are. I'm betting Michigan, and I'm also betting not an office flunky. But I'll let you know exactly what they say.

In response to your comments, the other ZF instructions say to lift the vehicle on a level hoist, which addresses your comment about running through the gears, etc.

Yes I would definitely interested to see what he says about the green instructions.

Going by the history on this forum, the right thing to do would be level the trans, but don't get me wrong if I don't have to then that would great. lol

 

[joesstripclub]

I'm guessing the replies you are getting from ZF are due to the fact that 99% of installations have the transmission installed level in the car. IIRC, Mopar/Chrysler/Ram buys the 8 speeds from ZF and modifies them for their installations. Could be why ZF doesn't officially mention that in their instructions.

 

[Wild one]

ZF got back to me. First, the person's title is Technical Service Manager - Passenger Cars, located in Michigan. Secondly he says he's never seen that green document. He's also responsible for remanufactured transmissions and hasn't seen them there either.

I don't suppose you still have that full set of documents that arrived with the transmission? If so, and you're still curious, can you pm me some pictures and I can send them? And is that document actually green, or is the camera playing tricks?

Just noticed the guy you're talking to is the Technical Service Manager for "Passenger cars",not for Ram 1500's. If you have a neighbour with a Challenger or Charger that has the Hemi and 8 speed combo,get down on your knee's and look at how the transmission sits in it,then go look at how the transmission sits in your truck.

 

[Wild one]

Not sure these pics are any good,but i wasn't gonna jack the Challenger up just for a couple transmission pictures.Hopefully they'll help you understand the differance in how the transmission sits in the cars Andy.

 

[andymax]

Just noticed the guy you're talking to is the Technical Service Manager for "Passenger cars",not for Ram 1500's. If you have a neighbour with a Challenger or Charger that has the Hemi and 8 speed combo,get down on your knee's and look at how the transmission sits in it,then go look at how the transmission sits in your truck.

In the world of Automotive, the Ram 1500 is most certainly considered a "passenger car". I've worked in this field for better than 30 years.

 

[Wild one]

In the world of Automotive, the Ram 1500 is most certainly considered a "passenger car". I've worked in this field for better than 30 years.

Question for you then,if one transmission angles downhill,and one transmission sits level,and the fill plug is towards the rear of the transmission,which transmission do you think will take more fluid. I can't really draw you a more plain picture then that,and honestly i'm really getting tired of explaining a very basic principle to you.You talk to who ever you want to,and do it how ever you want,as i'm pretty well done beating my head against a wall explaining the obvious to you.Have a good evening sir,i'm out.18 Crew posted a pic of the transmission showing the transmission sitting level and where the fill plug is located in post #139,study it carefully

 

[andymax]

Not sure these pics are any good,but i wasn't gonna jack the Challenger up just for a couple transmission pictures.Hopefully they'll help you understand the differance in how the transmission sits in the cars Andy.

I'm already pretty clear on it. I've owned two prior ZF's similar to the current one.

 

[andymax]

Question for you then,if one transmission angles downhill,and one transmission sits level,and the fill plug is towards the rear of the transmission,which transmission do you think will take more fluid. I can't really draw you a more plain picture then that,and honestly i'm really getting tired of explaining a very basic principle to you.You talk to who ever you want to,and do it how ever you want,as i'm pretty well done beating my head against a wall explaining the obvious to you.Have a good evening sir,i'm out.18 Crew posted a pic of the transmission showing the transmission sitting level and where the fill plug is located in post #139,study it carefully

Oh gee thanks for taking the time to talk down so an idiot like me can understand. As I stated too many times earlier, I GET THE DIFFERENCE...but that does not change the fact that exactly ONE green document says to level the transmission and MANY other sources, including ZF themselves, say not to. I'll rely on my curiosity, caution and good sense to try to find a reliable answer.

 

[EdGs]

The only other thing one could do, is do a drain and fill with a "level" Ram 1500, and then a drain and fill with a "level transmission".

It is very noticeable how angled the trans is in our Rams. I personally will opt for leveling the transmission itself. More work, maybe, but worth it to me.

 

[mdc1990zr1]

Question for you then,if one transmission angles downhill,and one transmission sits level,and the fill plug is towards the rear of the transmission,which transmission do you think will take more fluid. I can't really draw you a more plain picture then that,and honestly i'm really getting tired of explaining a very basic principle to you.You talk to who ever you want to,and do it how ever you want,as i'm pretty well done beating my head against a wall explaining the obvious to you.Have a good evening sir,i'm out.18 Crew posted a pic of the transmission showing the transmission sitting level and where the fill plug is located in post #139,study it carefully

All I can say is thanks for posting the green sheet. It will certainly help most of us. I appreciate all the time some members take to help. Wild one has led us to the water, but only some of us will drink. The rest will gargle and burn up their transmissions.

 

[18CrewDually]

Oh gee thanks for taking the time to talk down so an idiot like me can understand. As I stated too many times earlier, I GET THE DIFFERENCE...but that does not change the fact that exactly ONE green document says to level the transmission and MANY other sources, including ZF themselves, say not to. I'll rely on my curiosity, caution and good sense to try to find a reliable answer.

We understand that you get the difference, but does the tech recieving your emails understand what you (WE) are asking. My interpretation from your posts is that the differences between the car and truck and the position of the fill plug has not been expressed in your emails. Maybe the person would take a minute and discuss it on the phone?
I don't think the person you've communicated with is aware of what we're talking about.
I appreciate your efforts though. This is for my own curiosity and if I service one in the future, since my Ram has an Aisin trans.
Gosh, things are so much simpler with a dipstick!

 

[Daw14]

Call back, get a different tech ,then see if answer is the same . I do this with any answer from a company ,and more often then not receive a different reply . The world has changed lately, and it’s full of less than competent people . But you did get an answer .

 

[Wild one]

We understand that you get the difference, but does the tech recieving your emails understand what you (WE) are asking. My interpretation from your posts is that the differences between the car and truck and the position of the fill plug has not been expressed in your emails. Maybe the person would take a minute and discuss it on the phone?
I don't think the person you've communicated with is aware of what we're talking about.
I appreciate your efforts though. This is for my own curiosity and if I service one in the future, since my Ram has an Aisin trans.
Gosh, things are so much simpler with a dipstick!

I think you nailed it,he's leaving alot of information out on his emails. A phone call would probably be better as you stated. I give him kudo's for trying,but i'm still sticking with the Green sheet that came with the transmission,as the transmission was ordered specifically for my truck's VIN at the time i replaced it.