Upper control arms needed with bils set at 2.8?

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ram1500rsm

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Here is my alignment sheet. Added my bils at 2.8 with my existing 6” lift, then had aligned.

View attachment 142585
Yours shows better alignment numbers than that one I posted with the Billies at 2.1, caster at min, but should run just fine. Prob also why you guys with 4-6” lifts will have issues with aftermarket ucas and weird bj angles? There is some bracketry relocation in most of this lifts, so aftermarket ucas are not needed on those, although more than that, in some cases aftermarket ucas can create issues for you guys, think about it, the correction is perhaps built in the lift, so what the UCA is supposed to do will overshoot your geometry, when you lift the front, the factory UCA's are a little too short, so they can't move in the angle they need to give you correct caster/camber. aftermarket ones are offset to correct that.
 
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Yours shows better alignment numbers than that one I posted with the Billies at 2.1, caster at min, but should run just fine. Prob also why you guys with 4-6” lifts will have issues with aftermarket ucas and weird bj angles? There is some bracketry relocation in most of this lifts, so aftermarket ucas are not needed on those, although more than that, in some cases aftermarket ucas can create issues for you guys, think about it, the correction is perhaps built in the lift, so what the UCA is supposed to do will overshoot your geometry, when you lift the front, the factory UCA's are a little too short, so they can't move in the angle they need to give you correct caster/camber. aftermarket ones are offset to correct that.

Thanks for clarifying that. I don’t speak “Alignment”. Haha
 

Rader

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if you have bilsteins set at 2.8 and have had no issues, leave a comment. Had a guy trying to argue and say anything above 2.1 needs different upper control arms, because geometry is incorrect. Thanks.

There are some really mechanically challenged people in the world and I'm beginning to think that their favorite topic is Bilstein shock settings. They are confusing the spacer lifts the bolt on top of the strut and change the overall LENGTH of the strut with Bilsteins that do not change the length of the strut.

Anyone with one ounce of mechanical savvy if they take time to think should be able to figure out that Bilsteins lift by raising the spring perch and all that does in the case of a strut is change SPRING PRELOAD, the overall length of a Bilstein strut set at ZERO lift or at 2.8" is exactly the same, droop limits out like stock before the ball joint travel limits out so the ball joint is not stressed at ANY setting.

The same is true for the Rough Country 2.5" spacer lift that installs IN the strut. That kit simply changes spring preload so the upper ball joint is not stressed. I live on a dirt road, actually it is an unmaintained logging road that has horrible washboard, plus I am an avid 4wheeler so I drive it on lots of trails. MY 2015 has had the 2.5 RC kit installed since the truck was new, I am running 315s (close to 35") BFG KO2s on 17" wheels with 1 1/4" wheel spacers. Oh! And I should mention that on the front I have a big aftermarket winch bumper with a warn HS9500 with steel cable in it so my front end components are getting hammered more than most. My OEM ball joints and OEM UCAs are still fine.
 
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2016 Ram 1500 4x4 with only Bilstein's at 2.8" (oem/stock UCA). No issues.

I go offroading in the desert maybe twice a year. Here is the alignment sheet from when I had the Bilstein's installed. Almost 2 years and 25,000 miles later, still no issues.

View attachment 143255

Thank you sir. I knew there were members here that previously said they had bils at 2.8 on stock control arms, and never had a problem. I am sure more will chime in.
 

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Thank you sir. I knew there were members here that previously said they had bils at 2.8 on stock control arms, and never had a problem. I am sure more will chime in.

Why would they have a problem at 2.8"?

Bilstein 5100s fully extended length is 21.4" fully compressed length is 15.1" those numbers are virtually identical to OEM strut lengths. For reference Monroe OEM replacement struts are slightly longer than Bilstens 21.625 extended and compressed slightly longer at 15.4.

OK, if a Bilstein is set for zero lift it's extended and compresses length is E 21.4" C15.1, if the Bilstein is set for 2.8" of lift it's extended and compressed length is E 21.4", C 15.1" The only difference is the spring is pre-compressed about 1 3/4 more at the 2.8" setting.

It is physically impossible for a Bilstein to extend or compress more than OEM struts so it is physically impossible for Bilsteins to extend to a point upper ball joints limit out. The only change at the ball joint is it's operating angle at ride height, the angle change at ride height on mine with 2.5" RC spacer lift that preloads the spring like Bilsteins looks to me to be closer to a 90 degree angle (centered) now than it was at OEM height.
 
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Who freaking knows. Guys name is Owen Chung. He’s on most of the ram sites. Guy just wont admit he’s wrong. He is one of those guys.
 

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As others have already stated, it's not really needed, but is a bit of cheap insurance for the 13's and up since you have the front suspension all torn down already, it's a quick and easy add. For 2012 and below it's not necessary though.

Some shops (4WP) won't do the install without them, a bias left over from spacer level kits, where they are very much needed or you typically ruin ball joints in short order. I suspect it's also a liability thing, as they have to warranty their work as well.

Then there's my experience, I upgraded to Pro Comp oem style UCA's when 4WP put on my bils, and the ball joint popped right out in one day, with only street driving. 4WP replaced them with another brand (Precision, which are likely just rebranded Moog/Mevo's - which the PC's may be as well) - it was likely just a one-off bad part, it happens to all companies - but goes to show even replacing can be an issue. :eek:

97Lo8Mpl.jpg
 

John-e-racer

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There are some really mechanically challenged people in the world and I'm beginning to think that their favorite topic is Bilstein shock settings. They are confusing the spacer lifts the bolt on top of the strut and change the overall LENGTH of the strut with Bilsteins that do not change the length of the strut.

Anyone with one ounce of mechanical savvy if they take time to think should be able to figure out that Bilsteins lift by raising the spring perch and all that does in the case of a strut is change SPRING PRELOAD, the overall length of a Bilstein strut set at ZERO lift or at 2.8" is exactly the same, droop limits out like stock before the ball joint travel limits out so the ball joint is not stressed at ANY setting.

The same is true for the Rough Country 2.5" spacer lift that installs IN the strut. That kit simply changes spring preload so the upper ball joint is not stressed. I live on a dirt road, actually it is an unmaintained logging road that has horrible washboard, plus I am an avid 4wheeler so I drive it on lots of trails. MY 2015 has had the 2.5 RC kit installed since the truck was new, I am running 315s (close to 35") BFG KO2s on 17" wheels with 1 1/4" wheel spacers. Oh! And I should mention that on the front I have a big aftermarket winch bumper with a warn HS9500 with steel cable in it so my front end components are getting hammered more than most. My OEM ball joints and OEM UCAs are still fine.

Very good explanation. Basically what people don’t understand is that the stock suspension has normal travel range and with bilstein all you are doing is moving into upper portion of the travel but not exceeding normal travel range therefore no possibility in harming control arms ball joins.
 
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John-e-racer

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I installed front at 2.1 for a little rake, stock upper control arm and had it aligned. Ride is perfect. Guys don’t need upper control arm, don’t be forced into buying it unless you don’t mind spending the money but don’t let the shops up sell you that you must have it. They have no idea what they are talking about. You could go higher than than 2.8 in the front by adding additional preload via bottom spacer and still be just fine. Just don’t exceed overall strut length as that limits extension and you’ll be fine.
 

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I installed front at 2.1 for a little rake, stock upper control arm and had it aligned. Ride is perfect. Guys don’t need upper control arm, don’t be forced into buying it unless you don’t mind spending the money but don’t let the shops up sell you that you must have it. They have no idea what they are talking about. You could go higher than than 2.8 in the front by adding additional preload via bottom spacer and still be just fine. Just don’t exceed overall strut length as that limits extension and you’ll be fine.

It does not make a difference if a spacer that is installed IN the strut is at the top or the bottom, either way it adds preload. The rough country 2.5" lift preload spacer is installed in a disassembled strut at the top between the coil isolator and the plate at the top.

The strut is at an angle and it's attachment point is inboard some inches on the LCA so because of the LCA geometry change the amount of lift in inches is more than the physical thickness of the preload spacer...... it is close to a 1 = 1.6 ratio. The total thickness of the spacers in the 2.5" RC spacer lift kit is 1 5/8".

RCs lift , the instructions call the spacer exactly what it is a "preload spacer" The instructions for RC 2.5" leveling kit.

8. Place a strut compressor on the coil spring and compress the coil, so the strut top nut can be removed. Next remove the strut top and add the preload spacer to the coil assembly. The spacer will fit between the factory coil isolator and the strut top. See Photo 6.
 

John-e-racer

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It does not make a difference if a spacer that is installed IN the strut is at the top or the bottom, either way it adds preload. The rough country 2.5" lift preload spacer is installed in a disassembled strut at the top between the coil isolator and the plate at the top.

The strut is at an angle and it's attachment point is inboard some inches on the LCA so because of the LCA geometry change the amount of lift in inches is more than the physical thickness of the preload spacer...... it is close to a 1 = 1.6 ratio. The total thickness of the spacers in the 2.5" RC spacer lift kit is 1 5/8".

RCs lift , the instructions call the spacer exactly what it is a "preload spacer" The instructions for RC 2.5" leveling kit.

8. Place a strut compressor on the coil spring and compress the coil, so the strut top nut can be removed. Next remove the strut top and add the preload spacer to the coil assembly. The spacer will fit between the factory coil isolator and the strut top. See Photo 6.
Of course. Just trying not to confuse anyone but when it comes to lifting and bilsteins it might be too late
 

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Does the zone UCA stick out more? Seems like it would hit the tire. I want to do the level even more now. I might do it without the UCA upgrade. What exactly happens if a upper ball joint pops out ? Lol.


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