Volume Proof

[Dave Haddon]

Non mechanic has to ask the lads that know engines....Has anyone got the facts that increased air volume alone will translate to more performance..ie HP ? Reason for question stands in the face of CAI's and enlarged airbox ..ie the OEM 6.4 vs the stock 5.7 air box...thanks for any input.

 

[Wild one]

Non mechanic has to ask the lads that know engines....Has anyone got the facts that increased air volume alone will translate to more performance..ie HP ? Reason for question stands in the face of CAI's and enlarged airbox ..ie the OEM 6.4 vs the stock 5.7 air box...thanks for any input.

I thought it was the eco-diesal box that was the upgrade,i was under the impression you used the 6.4 box with the 6.4 intake manifold swap

 

[Dave Haddon]

Well what I understood, as you corrected, the Eco diesel lower air box with the larger scoop was one low cost approach. Research i have done does tend to suggest more air in = more power when combined with gas..ie Turbo or Super chargers. But I was wondering with JUST the air box exchange was there anybody who had numbers to show us the reason to upgrade..I think regardless I will do it and put a True dual exhaust set up with Magnaflow ( $900 ..ouch ). The 2 together should give a little kick..

 

[kurek]

Pretty fundamental that more fuel equals more power, but in order to burn more fuel you need to deliver more air and in order to deliver more air you need to draw it in more often (higher RPM's) and - crucially - fill those cylinders during the fraction of a second the valves are open.

For naturally aspirated engines it's a given that if peak horsepower happena close to redline it's a good indication there's nothing wrong with the total static air flow of the intake. If the intake is delivering plenty of air for 6000 rpm then there's no bottleneck at half that speed.

Other factors can come into play like cam profile, cam timing, acoustic supercharging etc but those are about tuning not basic air delivery. I've got a 3.8 liter V6 in one of my project cars that does 220 lb-ft of torque and 150 horsepower... it's got a breathing problem but the bottleneck is the heads themselves not the air intake tube/filter. The most refined pre-throttle-body intake system in the world couldn't squeeze a single horsepower out of that engine because that's not where it's choking.

I think the exhaust manifolds and Y-pipe are the first significant bottlenecks on our 5.7 Ram 1500's and the loss of intake velocity (air has to change directions a few times so you can't get a moving column going) is probably the next bottleneck after that.

The ecodiesel lower box probably does help with power a tiny bit but if it was big enough to even show pixels between two dyno traces I'd be shocked.

 

[Burla]

Next time you have a fire going, blow on it, answers your question. Adding air not only makes fire rage, but also makes it burn efficiently. Turns logs into absolute ash, less creosote on other side as well. Think rocket stove as well.

All a turbocharger is is a device that adds more air to combustion chamber, incredible gains are made and usually followed by gas mileage gains. Think about that, better gas mileage and higher HP, sounds to good to be true? It isn't, adding air is a good idea, but the oem is decent, I'm not sure cai buys you much. Maybe a less dense air filter would work just as good.

 

[joesstripclub]

Pretty fundamental that more fuel equals more power, but in order to burn more fuel you need to deliver more air and in order to deliver more air you need to draw it in more often (higher RPM's) and - crucially - fill those cylinders during the fraction of a second the valves are open.

For naturally aspirated engines it's a given that if peak horsepower happena close to redline it's a good indication there's nothing wrong with the total static air flow of the intake. If the intake is delivering plenty of air for 6000 rpm then there's no bottleneck at half that speed.

Other factors can come into play like cam profile, cam timing, acoustic supercharging etc but those are about tuning not basic air delivery. I've got a 3.8 liter V6 in one of my project cars that does 220 lb-ft of torque and 150 horsepower... it's got a breathing problem but the bottleneck is the heads themselves not the air intake tube/filter. The most refined pre-throttle-body intake system in the world couldn't squeeze a single horsepower out of that engine because that's not where it's choking.

I think the exhaust manifolds and Y-pipe are the first significant bottlenecks on our 5.7 Ram 1500's and the loss of intake velocity (air has to change directions a few times so you can't get a moving column going) is probably the next bottleneck after that.

The ecodiesel lower box probably does help with power a tiny bit but if it was big enough to even show pixels between two dyno traces I'd be shocked.

This is a good point. A larger air box only helps if that was restricting flow in the first place. Not sure what or if there is a restriction in our intake. It also depends how much power you are making. Stock airbox might be good for the stock 400hp but might start to restrict at 500hp (making up numbers).

 

[joesstripclub]

All a turbocharger is is a device that adds more air to combustion chamber, incredible gains are made and usually followed by gas mileage gains. Think about that, better gas mileage and higher HP, sounds to good to be true? It isn't, adding air is a good idea, but the oem is decent, I'm not sure cai buys you much. Maybe a less dense air filter would work just as good.

I feel like this is partially true. A turbo only adds better gas mileage when you are out of boost, and that is because you are generally building a lower compression motor to handle the boost. Look at the ecoboost fords, they get terrible gas mileage towing because they are in constant boost.

 

[seabrook]

I feel like this is partially true. A turbo only adds better gas mileage when you are out of boost, and that is because you are generally building a lower compression motor to handle the boost. Look at the ecoboost fords, they get terrible gas mileage towing because they are in constant boost.

yea my supercharged PWC can drink 16 gallons of gas in 30 minutes at WOT

 

[Burla]

Supercharger uses a belt, turbo charger uses exhaust gases, two separate things. With a turbo charger you get to make similar HP with two less cylinders. If you talk about a turbo charger on the same engine, versus what that turbo charger can do for you with less cylinders, it can be two different conversations. We see the Ford eco boost versus the hemi, the eco boost actually has more torque and a better mpg's then the hemi, which only gets 20 more HP.

 

[Dave Haddon]

Great discussion and info guys.
So if I interpet it all correctly, I might be best getting the straight duals to eliminate the exhaust bottleneck. I am not racing my truck just want some fun every now and then when I step on the pedal. Not interested in hi power gains unless i win the lottery then maybe a Procharger....thanks for all the input.

 

[Burla]

Even if it doesnt end giving you better mpg's, you wont regret that at all, lol.

 

[Wild one]

Great discussion and info guys.
So if I interpet it all correctly, I might be best getting the straight duals to eliminate the exhaust bottleneck. I am not racing my truck just want some fun every now and then when I step on the pedal. Not interested in hi power gains unless i win the lottery then maybe a Procharger....thanks for all the input.

If you can find an AFE catless midpipe,it shows a good gain ,combine that with a good aftermarket muffler (Magnaflow is good) and you'll still have a long lasting exhaust system that flows and sounds good Dave. Try to find a shop in Toon town that does mandrel bends and carries stainless exhaust tubing,or will work with something like a Magnaflow mandrel bend kit.The worst thing you can do is replace the stock system with crush bent aluminiumized tubing,it'll only last 2 years and the crush bends cut flow way down . A cheap option is to replace the crushed factory pipes where they join to make the Y with an aftermarket Y,then throw a good muffler on it.The Y actually acts similiar to a X pipe,so it's worth working with.FYI a big single 3.5" system outflows a pair of dual 2.5" pipes,and might be something to look into

 

[Dave Haddon]

great info..I am not in a rush so I can look around..thank you.

 

[Wild one]

great info..I am not in a rush so I can look around..thank you.

If you're ever out for a long distance tour Flo Pro is Red Deer based,and they do a wicked job with mandrel bends,and make some pretty decent mufflers.It's a bit of a drive for you though,lol.

FLO~PRO - Tips & Endings

www.flopro.com

 

[Dave Haddon]

I think that might be worth a call next week just to get numbers and install time..thanks Wild One.